Conferences

[EMT-83]

I have no problem with breakout sessions that explain how to "do" CAP, whether it's ES, PD, CP or whatever.

The fact is there are no classes that explain how to properly submit a Form 24 or navigate WMRIS. I'd rather sit through this type of material than some of the nonsense that I've seen.

I noticed that the upcoming NER conference will have SLS and CLC courses. What a complete waste of time.

[Eclipse]

The fact is there are no classes that explain how to properly submit a Form 24 or navigate WMRIS. I'd rather sit through this type of material than some of the nonsense that I've seen.

Page 2 of the Form 24 is detailed instructions on how to complete the form and where to send it.

eServices / WMIRS have detailed instruction manuals which few people have ever read, yet which answer most questions.
I can't tell you how many times I've been told / asked about how hard it is to figure out these systems, yet no one will crack the
.PDF.
http://www.cawg.cap.gov/files/OPS-Qual-Guide.pdf
https://missions.capnhq.gov/wmirs/DownloadFiles/WMIRS%20Manual.pdf

I noticed that the upcoming NER conference will have SLS and CLC courses. What a complete waste of time.

I agree - these are not "conferences", and they are just trying to punch two tickets at once.

[ol'fido]

Conference requirements for PD are probably a hold over from the days before the internet, e mail, skype, and the like. Missions, activities, meetings, etc. were all local or within the same or contiguous group area. Membership didn't travel 30 or 40 years ago like they do today except for encampments, special activities, or conferences.

[Private Investigator]

I noticed that the upcoming NER conference will have SLS and CLC courses. What a complete waste of time.

I concur; how dumb is that but I am sure they will rationalize it   

[Private Investigator]

Conference requirements for PD are probably a hold over from the days before the internet, e mail, skype, and the like. Missions, activities, meetings, etc. were all local or within the same or contiguous group area. Membership didn't travel 30 or 40 years ago like they do today except for encampments, special activities, or conferences.

Also for the networking opportunity. When I was a new guy and I was given Personnel Officer I wanted to meet the Wing DP and others to get an ideal what a CAP DP does.

Conferences are great and after a few of them you realize some people are there just to punch their tickets.

[AirDX]

Conference requirements for PD are probably a hold over from the days before the internet, e mail, skype, and the like. Missions, activities, meetings, etc. were all local or within the same or contiguous group area. Membership didn't travel 30 or 40 years ago like they do today except for encampments, special activities, or conferences.

Bingo.  One of the two or three posts worth reading in all this.  In 2012, I have e-mail and free nation-wide long distance calling.  I don't need to go to a conference to talk to anyone, I just call them.  If I need info from the region SE, I send him text message.  NHQ, call 'em. 

Now that we've established that wing conferences are a dinosaur, what shall we replace them with in the PD realm?  Looking over Form 24, there are a couple of things that strike me as being clinkers for the level they're at, of that they are there at all.

[Eclipse]

Bingo.  One of the two or three posts worth reading in all this.  In 2012, I have e-mail and free nation-wide long distance calling.  I don't need to go to a conference to talk to anyone, I just call them.  If I need info from the region SE, I send him text message.  NHQ, call 'em. 

You're not supposed to be calling Wing and Region direct, that's what the chain is for.   There's very little reason someone assigned at the unit level should ever be contacting a Wing or Region staffer directly, let alone NHQ.

The downside to easy access is the perception that it's appropriate.

[lordmonar]

Bingo.  One of the two or three posts worth reading in all this.  In 2012, I have e-mail and free nation-wide long distance calling.  I don't need to go to a conference to talk to anyone, I just call them.  If I need info from the region SE, I send him text message.  NHQ, call 'em. 

You're not supposed to be calling Wing and Region direct, that's what the chain is for.   There's very little reason someone assigned at the unit level should ever be contacting a Wing or Region staffer directly, let alone NHQ.

The downside to easy access is the perception that it's appropriate.

Sorry....but BS.

Your group/wing/region staff officer is your GO TO point for how your job is supposed to be done!  Squadron staffers should be in regular contact with their next level counterpart!

[RogueLeader]

Bingo.  One of the two or three posts worth reading in all this.  In 2012, I have e-mail and free nation-wide long distance calling.  I don't need to go to a conference to talk to anyone, I just call them.  If I need info from the region SE, I send him text message.  NHQ, call 'em. 

You're not supposed to be calling Wing and Region direct, that's what the chain is for.   There's very little reason someone assigned at the unit level should ever be contacting a Wing or Region staffer directly, let alone NHQ.

The downside to easy access is the perception that it's appropriate.

Sorry....but BS.

Your group/wing/region staff officer is your GO TO point for how your job is supposed to be done!  Squadron staffers should be in regular contact with their next level counterpart!

Yeah.  Never happened to me in almost 8 years.

[Eclipse]

Sorry....but BS.

Your group/wing/region staff officer is your GO TO point for how your job is supposed to be done!  Squadron staffers should be in regular contact with their next level counterpart!

Next level?  Yes.  That was my point.  In this day of easy-access, people don't want to bother with the "next level" when they can just call the National CC.

In most wings, the next level is not wing, it's Group.  And no one but Wing should be going VFR-direct to Region unless they've got local clearance to do so.

[lordmonar]

Sorry....but BS.

Your group/wing/region staff officer is your GO TO point for how your job is supposed to be done!  Squadron staffers should be in regular contact with their next level counterpart!

Next level?  Yes.  That was my point.  In this day of easy-access, people don't want to bother with the "next level" when they can just call the National CC.

In most wings, the next level is not wing, it's Group.  And no one but Wing should be going VFR-direct to Region unless they've got local clearance to do so.

No actually most wings do not use the Group level.....sorry....that's just a fact.  And by assigning someone to the job....you have given them clearance to go VFR direct to their counter part at the next level.  Again....that's just a fact.   To do so is setting them up for failure, it is setting up the squadron for failure.  And as in all things........you try to resolve issues at the lowest level.

[NCRblues]

No actually most wings do not use the Group level.....sorry....that's just a fact.

I do wonder if there is a list of wings that do utilize group structures and those that do not. Would be interesting to see and know...

[Eclipse]

No actually most wings do not use the Group level.....sorry....that's just a fact.

Got any stats on that?  I frankly don't.

...by assigning someone to the job....you have given them clearance to go VFR direct to their counter part at the next level.

Yes, >next< level and no higher without prior clearance.

[RogueLeader]

No actually most wings do not use the Group level.....sorry....that's just a fact.

I do wonder if there is a list of wings that do utilize group structures and those that do not. Would be interesting to see and know...

There is a poll around here with that.
linky

[lordmonar]

No actually most wings do not use the Group level.....sorry....that's just a fact.

Got any stats on that?  I frankly don't.

...by assigning someone to the job....you have given them clearance to go VFR direct to their counter part at the next level.

Yes, >next< level and no higher without prior clearance.

Again....no...you don't need clearance to move up.  If you asked wing and they can't help you...go to region. 

[ßτε]

Sorry....but BS.

Your group/wing/region staff officer is your GO TO point for how your job is supposed to be done!  Squadron staffers should be in regular contact with their next level counterpart!

Next level?  Yes.  That was my point.  In this day of easy-access, people don't want to bother with the "next level" when they can just call the National CC.

In most wings, the next level is not wing, it's Group.  And no one but Wing should be going VFR-direct to Region unless they've got local clearance to do so.

But of course if one is the wing safety officer, there should be no problem contacting the region safety officer, right?

[AirDX]

Bingo.  One of the two or three posts worth reading in all this.  In 2012, I have e-mail and free nation-wide long distance calling.  I don't need to go to a conference to talk to anyone, I just call them.  If I need info from the region SE, I send him text message.  NHQ, call 'em. 

You're not supposed to be calling Wing and Region direct, that's what the chain is for.   There's very little reason someone assigned at the unit level should ever be contacting a Wing or Region staffer directly, let alone NHQ.

The downside to easy access is the perception that it's appropriate.

Dude...

I AM the frickin' wing SE.  I need to talk to region, national, my wing CC, all kinds of folks.  I have them all on speed dial.   Don't try to lecture me on CoC.  Can your attitude until you get a clue.

[BillB]

I don't think I've seen so many typos, misspellings, and even missing words in a single thread for a long time. Even the Grammar Police are guilty.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I do wonder if there is a list of wings that do utilize group structures and those that do not. Would be interesting to see and know...

The CAPWATCH download lists all of the organizations in CAP. From this list it appears that 24 Wings use groups

AZ  CA  CO  FL  GA  IL  IN LA
MD  MI  MN  MO  NC  NJ  NM  NY
OH  PA  PR  SC  TN  TX  VA  WI

[a2capt]

..and WAWG does, too. They just don't call it that, but it's really that. So that's 24/25, which may not qualify for "most", because that would imply more than a simple majority, which this barely is.

Suffice to say, though, that it is "many".