Interested in Joining CAP

[resqccemt]

I have been checking out the message boards  and researching CAP manuals for a while. I have 19 years of experience working in fire, ems, and emergency services including technical rescue and SAR. At this point in my life I would like to get back into volunteering and giving back  and grateful for what my career has given me. Current job requirements keep me on the go  but I can make time for CAP. The history and missions of this organization are incredible. I want to make the commitment, but I am reluctant because all of the negative posts about politics and  uniforms( I have my own opinion).. Every organization has gripes .... that is how it is.. I would like to hear from some seasoned senior members and what drives them. My interests are using my skills that I have accrued to benefit CAP. If  I joined it would be a second career...

[johnnyb47]

Welcome to the forums!
I would suggest that you find and visit a couple of local squadrons to see what they are all about and to make sure you are a good fit for eachother.
I found our squadron 2 years ago after visiting with 2 other locals and found this one to be exactly what I was looking for and they needed exactly what I had to offer.
Once you have a "job" and some of the training and direction you need to get going you can find yourself VERY happy at the squadron level for a very long time.
Most of the politics talk you read is up the chain a bit. As long as you can avoid getting suckered into a Wing you'll avoid/be oblivious to most of it.

Good luck finding a home! Feel free to ask if you ever need any "how do I, where do I" type questions answered.

[vento]

Thanks for your interest. Best course of action is to visit a few local squadron and get a feel for things that we do. Every squadron is different. In many squadrons, you won't even see politics or uniform issues.

The best part about volunteering for CAP is that you give the organization what you can, unlike most volunteer firefighters, there is no minimum nor maximum hours per month for CAP.

[resqccemt]

Thank you for responding. I have checked out the squadrons in my area... The one closest to me is open to senior members... It is a composite.  My interest is in emergency services, communications and safety. I am not only interested in ground team but as a mission scanner and observer as well.  I would like to look at all aspects of CAP that I fit. .. I understand there are no minimum hours, however I wish to put my best into the organization. I have look at all the pamphlets and checklists  and know what I need to do...

[resqccemt]

Open to input as well from everyone...

[johnnyb47]

The big question then is how active is that local unit in ES? Do they have or have easy access to a corporate owned aircraft?
You can get scanner/observer training throughout the group/wing but it is OH SO HANDY to have access to it right at the squadron level.
As for safety.... well it's good that you are interested in it. We have lots of safety training.... LOTS.

[EMT-83]

I have been checking out the message boards  and researching CAP manuals for a while. I have 19 years of experience working in fire, ems, and emergency services including technical rescue and SAR. At this point in my life I would like to get back into volunteering and giving back  and grateful for what my career has given me. Current job requirements keep me on the go  but I can make time for CAP. The history and missions of this organization are incredible. I want to make the commitment, but I am reluctant because all of the negative posts about politics and  uniforms( I have my own opinion).. Every organization has gripes .... that is how it is.. I would like to hear from some seasoned senior members and what drives them. My interests are using my skills that I have accrued to benefit CAP. If  I joined it would be a second career...

Don't believe for a minute that the discussions here about uniforms and politics resemble anything that you will encounter in real life, especially as a new member.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I have been checking out the message boards  and researching CAP manuals for a while. I have 19 years of experience working in fire, ems, and emergency services including technical rescue and SAR. At this point in my life I would like to get back into volunteering and giving back  and grateful for what my career has given me. Current job requirements keep me on the go  but I can make time for CAP. The history and missions of this organization are incredible. I want to make the commitment, but I am reluctant because all of the negative posts about politics and  uniforms( I have my own opinion).. Every organization has gripes .... that is how it is.. I would like to hear from some seasoned senior members and what drives them. My interests are using my skills that I have accrued to benefit CAP. If  I joined it would be a second career...

To add to that...

People who come HERE, typically discuss things that don't come up at unit meetings. This is where members come outside of a CAP meeting/activity to get a dose of CAP when they want. At times this is the bleeding edge of discussion on things. At times it's the most up to date information, gossip, concepts, ideas, etc.

Take it at face value as the discussion of a FEW members nationwide (and some non-members) which do not reflect what may be happening at the unit level.

Don't believe for a minute that the discussions here about uniforms and politics resemble anything that you will encounter in real life, especially as a new member.

[resqccemt]

Thanks for the advice... I look forward to getting involved.. CAP has been something I have been interested in for a few years. This squadron is good sized with a lot of members. I have taken some time to go through he training requirements and education.. Its exciting.. In any organization, you are going to have the gossip and criticism. People have to remember they are there to serve, and why we have chosen service.

[Private Investigator]

Thank you for responding. I have checked out the squadrons in my area... The one closest to me is open to senior members... It is a composite.  My interest is in emergency services, communications and safety. I am not only interested in ground team but as a mission scanner and observer as well.  I would like to look at all aspects of CAP that I fit. .. I understand there are no minimum hours, however I wish to put my best into the organization. I have look at all the pamphlets and checklists  and know what I need to do...

Do visit three Squadrons if possible and see what is the best fit. Some Squadrons get out and really do ES, actual missions & training, flying, Ground Teams and UDF. Other Squadrons will train but never do an actual mission and then others are just a "flying club".

[resqccemt]

I have found 4 squadrons... the ones outside my closest squadron are a little more than an hour away, however I would be able to attend more meeting nights a month. Is there any issues with response times to the squadron building?

[Cliff_Chambliss]

I have found 4 squadrons... the ones outside my closest squadron are a little more than an hour away, however I would be able to attend more meeting nights a month. Is there any issues with response times to the squadron building?

I am not an "expert" and I did not sleep at a holiday Inn last night, but I have never been subjected to an alert time to show time requirement for any real or practice mission. 

[a2capt]

OTOH- if you're an hour plus a few, away, you're not totally outside of the normal amount, but rarely does a unit HQ have anything to do with a response to a mission alert aside from an aircraft, at a meeting location, that is at an airport. If you're an hour away, depending on the rest of the circumstances, I'd say someone else will beat you there ... but could be doing pre-flight and mission prep in the meantime, before briefing the rest that arrive later, just before launch.

In fact, in 10 years of CAP, I can't remember once going to the unit location with regards to an ES mission response, and for me, it's only 3 miles to the front door.

[RADIOMAN015]

For prospective members

Unfortunately, with CAP in many squadrons there isn't consistent/effective programs that cover the cadet/senior cross over missions of Emergency Services & Aerospace Education.  Surely the challenge at every unit is getting talented (ideally experienced on the technical issues) and motivated adult members that are willing to work on either one of these programs.

So for the prospective member, just because you are just joining doesn't mean that you can't be VERY productive right from start (meaning you've completed level I, which should take you only 1 to 2 weeks if you are motivated).

In some functional areas, there really might not be much expertise at the unit level, but the new member can always ask for assistance/advice from their Group (where groups are utilized) or wing.   

Good luck in your quest for deciding what is the best unit to join in your area

RM

[resqccemt]

 Well I have visited some squadrons... I have gained valuable insight to many of the postings that include accolades and frustrations expressed by members of CAP here on CAP Talk by visiting the squadrons first hand.  Basically what I have gathered is that the mission of CAP is evolving, it is going away from SAR (which is handled primarily by local and state public safety agencies), as well in changes in use of ELT and going more towards a disaster relief/response type of mission. I am privileged to be able to have a  good number of squadrons with dedicated volunteers that are within an hour drive to be able to choose from. My question is where would I fit? Most of my skills from my career apply to ground team functions, the squadrons that focus on aviation would be something complete new, however when I first thought of joining CAP  I was interested in being a  mission observer.  If that what my local squadron needs.... Im here , Im ready to learn!

I was asked a question at one squadron I visited which was " Due to your job, would you be available during an actual emergency?" I think that is valid, and I said CAP is a national and regional resource. A hurricane may be on the coast, but my job may not be affected  unless there is a disaster here locally. I also said that my experience could be used to instruct, impart, and train to help prepare all members.

To join such an organization is an honor and a commitment.  So that is why I am taking the time to learn from those who are seasoned.  At this point.. I will continue to visit meetings... I think a prospective member should go to at least 3 meetings at the squadron before joining.  AnywY I am looking for all advice and opinions from every perspective.

[Nathan]

In the KC area, we tend to deal with tornados quite a bit. Most areas have their own localized problems to deal with in disaster relief. Any skills in ES will be of use, so you will be welcome to any squadron with interest in ES.

If you find a squadron with no ES program, don't be afraid to offer to start one. That would be a difficult but very rewarding experience worth exploring.

[resqccemt]

Well, I am going to continue with visiting 3 meetings at the prospective squadrons I have visited... Plus there is one other that I plan to visit as well but that is over an hour away. So far, the squadrons are either flight centered and aren't really interested in my past experience. However, I do find interest in the flight operations arena. I just wanted to jump in and be  able to use my previous SAR and emergency services experience.  Some of the squadrons I have visited, the senior members don't really do anything but sit around and do mess with their laptops and ipads, while grumbling about having to take FEMA courses.

I was also questioned about my job, which is in emergency services, that I would not be of any use to them because if there was an actual disaster that I would be busy with my full time job, and I would not be able to make all the meetings. They are forgetting the fact that in my shift work, that I would be available for times when the majority of senior members are working.  Here we  have a volunteer organization that I would be paying dues and providing  my gear, uniforms and material at my expense...  But willing to pitch in and get the work done as a resource to the squadron , and more than willing to learn the way CAP does things.

Then the whole uniform thing is confusing, I see 4 different uniforms at the meetings and it just doesn't look like there is cohesiveness or professionalism in that. Coming from working at a fire service organizations we had to wear the same thing----Look uniform and part of the same organization, with a common purpose.

Like I said I am going to give the squadrons I visited a full chance and go to 3 meetings, which is only fair.  However I am considering joining up with my local DMAT (Disaster Medical Assistance Team) . It would be something affiliated   with my job,there are regular deployments with a defined mission, there are no dues, they pay for your gear, and I would be working in my scope of practice.  CAP is something a little bit different though with something new and challenging... I will see over the next few weeks.. I got some new insight reading the thread from former members. 

[Private Investigator]

It is really up to you. I am an retired policeman, 25 years on the job. I have fun in CAP.

Boy Scouts, Big Brothers, CERT, Habitat for Humanity, Doctors without Borders, Youth Sports, et al, all great groups so whatever suits your fancy.

Have fun   

[a2capt]

...that I would not be of any use to them because if there was an actual disaster that I would be busy with my full time job...

Really? You mean you have *nothing* that you could contribute towards training.. which ... umm.. dare I say it, "would be of use to them"? Great. Whoever told you that .. Good job. Not.

CAP is not a first responder. Not even a close second, if we have units with that mentality..

Then the whole uniform thing is confusing, I see 4 different uniforms at the meetings and it just doesn't look like there is cohesiveness or professionalism in that.

CAP could also stand for Confusion About Policies

[resqccemt]

CAP is something I have admired since I first became involved in SAR many years ago.  I am not going to judge based upon the few and do see some hardworking dedicated members.  A commitment if I join is something I take seriously. I plan to continue going to some meetings at different squadrons and visit another one. Also, I Plan to read as much of the pamphlets regarding specialty tracks and research as much as I can.

[spacecommand]

I've met some people who have an image of what CAP is about but when they actually join or learn more, they see that it's not really for them.  This is not limited to CAP, I've worked in other occupations where it's actually different from what people thought it would be.  I'm sure the same thing happens when people think about the fire service or police services.  Depending on where you are, police-fire work can be 99% boredom followed with 1% of sheer terror.   The actual job is different from certain perceptions. 

At the moment I would forget about what the people are wearing when you visit the unit, and concentrate more on what they are actually doing.
You will always have a mix of golf-shirts, white shirts, blue shirts, bdu's, blue bdu's etc. etc. at meetings, sarexs and actual missions. 

At my unit, a lot is also done outside of regular meeting nights, "the fun stuff" as I call them, ex:  O-Flights, SAREX's/ training activities, other activities (launching rockets, field trips, etc) are often done at times outside regular meeting nights.

[resqccemt]

This is what I do for work in a typical month. I want to join CAP to give back to my country and my community. I know CAP is not a first responder agency, but CAP has a long history of being there in disasters and war. I am willing to do anything the squadron needs, I just wish I could get a straight answer. Helping out with cadets, training, emergency services, mission observer, you name it I'm there.  I believe in the missions of CAP, it is frustrating that some are just not interested. I don't know it all, I am willing and able to serve the CAP way...

Colleton Fire Omniflight Meducare Air Helicopter

[Eclipse]

This is what I do for work in a typical month. I want to join CAP to give back to my country and my community. I know CAP is not a first responder agency, but CAP has a long history of being there in disasters and war. I am willing to do anything the squadron needs, I just wish I could get a straight answer. Helping out with cadets, training, emergency services, mission observer, you name it I'm there.  I believe in the missions of CAP, it is frustrating that some are just not interested. I don't know it all, I am willing and able to serve the CAP way...

If anything, CAP "suffers" from choice and options for its members.

The average new USAF recruit, or Officer coming in with a degree and "salutin' school" does not have much choice as to what they will do once they sign their name.  CAP members do, and for the most part the only restrictions are personal in terms of time and initiative.

Units tend to normalize around the leadership.  If the Squadron CC is a pilot, then the unit will have a lot of aviation in its activities,
if he joined to work with cadets, then that will probably be the focus of the unit's schedule.

However just because the unit you join doesn't do "x", doesn't mean you can't do "x", you just might have to seek it out more directly.
Best thing to do is join, spend a bit of time getting the basics down, and then look around for what interests you, either at the unit, or elsewhere.

[bflynn]

Units tend to normalize around the leadership.  If the Squadron CC is a pilot, then the unit will have a lot of aviation in its activities,
if he joined to work with cadets, then that will probably be the focus of the unit's schedule.

So you're saying that squadrons change focus when squadron leadership changes?

I'd think members do what members want to do.  If people want to work with cadets, or do ES or AE, they're going to and I don't think they'll suddenly become interested in something else because there's a new commander.

I find the idea that the squadron would change because a new commander wants to do something else a little depressing actually...

[Eclipse]

So you're saying that squadrons change focus when squadron leadership changes?

Yes, especially in units where member's whim has dictated the direction a unit has moved.

Members are free to be interested in whatever they like, however a commander's responsibility is to accomplish CAP's mission.  If the existing membership is not capable or interested in executing parts of the mandates, then the Commander's responsibility is to find more members to fill in the gaps.

[resqccemt]

bflynn... your squadron focuses specifically on flying.. I was told that when I sent an email there.. so Im not sure why you are so upset...

[resqccemt]

and I would also add that your commander has some excellent ideas for training....but your squadron is mostly concerned about flying, and having flown , having worked in Iraq and Afghanistan, I know the mentality of pilots.... CAP  is destroying itself.... I am interested not for my ego, but for service..

[Eclipse]

CAP  is destroying itself.... I am interested not for my ego, but for service..

I'd say that is a stretch.  There are plenty of opportunities for meaningful service, but you have to play to win.

[resqccemt]

I would have to say I stand corrected there.. you are right in that...

[resqccemt]

After weeks of attending meetings and researching.. I have concluded this organization is a joke in many ways other than the pilots and mission observers that are involved.. There is no real mission for ground teams because local authorities have jurisdiction and their own ground SAR It does not take a GTM rating to pass out food for disaster relief... I see why there is so much turnover in the local squadrons and I will save my 75-150 dollar dues, plus the cost of uniforms that no one can figure out which to wear and do something else...I think I will focus my efforts on an organization that is ready to deploy, and one that does actual certified training in the area of my expertise.  Thank you for your feedback

[Extremepredjudice]

Um, sir, it seems you decided CAP isn't for you. There isn't anything wrong this this, but please don't call our organization a joke. It isn't.

There are people on here that have 40 years in CAP. Was that time spent a joke?


I don't see how CAP is funny. In order to be a joke it must be funny. (see:http://m.dictionary.com/d/?q=joke&o=0&l=dir)

[Eclipse]

After weeks of attending meetings and researching.. I have concluded this organization is a joke in many ways other than the pilots and mission observers that are involved.. There is no real mission for ground teams because local authorities have jurisdiction and their own ground SAR It does not take a GTM rating to pass out food for disaster relief... I see why there is so much turnover in the local squadrons and I will save my 75-150 dollar dues, plus the cost of uniforms that no one can figure out which to wear and do something else...I think I will focus my efforts on an organization that is ready to deploy, and one that does actual certified training in the area of my expertise.  Thank you for your feedback

It is unfortunate that you did not find CAP a fit for your volunteer time. I'm sure another worthy organization will be able to make use of your time and experience.

Know, though, that your experience is not necessarily typical of the entire organization.  CAP has a very specific lane of support and participation, and
while much of the mission is local, our federalized status requires we adhere to a very specific set of rules, and just like other agencies, there are things
we do, and things we do not do.  This is frustrating for people who just want to "get involved", but is typical of agencies with the kinds of resources that we have to offer.

It is what it is, and what it "is" is not for everyone.

Good luck in finding a suitable outlet for your community spirit.

[spacecommand]

CAP has been around for a long time, has done good things and continue to do good things, unfortunate that you did not find a place for yourself.
CAP isn't a first responder organization like the local volunteer fire department, but I would hardly describe the organization as a "joke" , especially for the ones who went out and never came back. 

[Angus]

CAP is not a first responder. Not even a close second, if we have units with that mentality..

Then the whole uniform thing is confusing, I see 4 different uniforms at the meetings and it just doesn't look like there is cohesiveness or professionalism in that.

CAP could also stand for Confusion About Policies

See I thought it stood for Come And Pay all these years.

[Angus]

Or

Come and Play

[SarDragon]

Let us not forget - Cash and Plastic. 

[rustyjeeper]

After weeks of attending meetings and researching.. I have concluded this organization is a joke in many ways other than the pilots and mission observers that are involved.. There is no real mission for ground teams because local authorities have jurisdiction and their own ground SAR It does not take a GTM rating to pass out food for disaster relief... I see why there is so much turnover in the local squadrons and I will save my 75-150 dollar dues, plus the cost of uniforms that no one can figure out which to wear and do something else...I think I will focus my efforts on an organization that is ready to deploy, and one that does actual certified training in the area of my expertise.  Thank you for your feedback

It is a shame to see someone like this leave so suddenly and while leaving make the statement that the organization is a joke in many ways. Unfortunately I do understand where he is coming from
We have some very good people and a lot of potential, but in reality we are not where we should be IMHO at least.
Why cant we get our act togather on a National Scale and become relevant again- it is what this organization needs to do, There is no real leadership  or direction given. For that matter we cannot even get an ES specialty track guide in place within a reasonable period of time. So in some ways it is true we are sadly somewhat of a a joke.
Our missions are disappearing and we are not doing anything to transition to the future. I hear more that "we cant do that" than how can we accomplish that from leadership. If we want to survive and improve we need to change how we do things in CAP.
I am somewhat new to cap being back less than two years but as a former member I have now seen the decline firsthand from what we were years ago, I have not quit yet- But I am questioning myself more often as to why I remain involved when our relevancy is so minimal in reality. In 2016 the 121 beacons will ALL be gone further diminishing what we do and we need to find new ways to provide service.

[AngelWings]

After weeks of attending meetings and researching.. I have concluded this organization is a joke in many ways other than the pilots and mission observers that are involved.. There is no real mission for ground teams because local authorities have jurisdiction and their own ground SAR It does not take a GTM rating to pass out food for disaster relief... I see why there is so much turnover in the local squadrons and I will save my 75-150 dollar dues, plus the cost of uniforms that no one can figure out which to wear and do something else...I think I will focus my efforts on an organization that is ready to deploy, and one that does actual certified training in the area of my expertise.  Thank you for your feedback

You've concluded it's a joke, but one think is, what could you bring to the table to fix it? I think you've missed the part where we are a team, we learn from eachother, and we improve with expertise. The biggest problem I've seen in CAP is people getting discouraged by nothing getting done. You want something done? Do it yourself! It's that simple. It is easier to ask forgiveness than it is to explain what you're doing and to justify it. Your squadron may not be calling anyone looking for help, and that's where you need to push them. I've been in positions where that was the case for some training, and I simply took things a bit into my own hands, and now my squadron is doing just fine. It may not seem kosher, and in some ways people won't find it kosher, but no one gets mad when they get helped out.

So, my advice to you is to call your local PD, call people and set up training and TELL people the training is available and ready to be given (and if there is a fee, ask for the squadron to pay for the training for it's members or for people to pitch in money to the training), and get things moving! You can't forget people don't ask, don't search, and don't pay attention to what they could get sometimes, but when it is offered to them, they'll be hardpressed to say no. And if they do say no, find another squadron and try again!

[rustyjeeper]

After weeks of attending meetings and researching.. I have concluded this organization is a joke in many ways other than the pilots and mission observers that are involved.. There is no real mission for ground teams because local authorities have jurisdiction and their own ground SAR It does not take a GTM rating to pass out food for disaster relief... I see why there is so much turnover in the local squadrons and I will save my 75-150 dollar dues, plus the cost of uniforms that no one can figure out which to wear and do something else...I think I will focus my efforts on an organization that is ready to deploy, and one that does actual certified training in the area of my expertise.  Thank you for your feedback

You've concluded it's a joke, but one think is, what could you bring to the table to fix it? I think you've missed the part where we are a team, we learn from eachother, and we improve with expertise. The biggest problem I've seen in CAP is people getting discouraged by nothing getting done. You want something done? Do it yourself! It's that simple. It is easier to ask forgiveness than it is to explain what you're doing and to justify it. Your squadron may not be calling anyone looking for help, and that's where you need to push them. I've been in positions where that was the case for some training, and I simply took things a bit into my own hands, and now my squadron is doing just fine. It may not seem kosher, and in some ways people won't find it kosher, but no one gets mad when they get helped out.

So, my advice to you is to call your local PD, call people and set up training and TELL people the training is available and ready to be given (and if there is a fee, ask for the squadron to pay for the training for it's members or for people to pitch in money to the training), and get things moving! You can't forget people don't ask, don't search, and don't pay attention to what they could get sometimes, but when it is offered to them, they'll be hardpressed to say no. And if they do say no, find another squadron and try again!

AngelWings,
you are correct people do need to step up and fix the problems and offer solutions. The issue is that those who run the show often thiink thing are hunky dory and unwilling to change or use the system to bring change about. In your own Wing there has been great resistance to CERT and that does not make sense to me- does it to you ?
I have been fighting for change since renewing my own membership after a twenty five year vacation;  and in all honesty I get tired of the mentality of those in higher headquarters at times. It seems you need to be willing to fight tooth and nail for every inch you gained or just quit. I respect the fact that the original poster made an educated decision early on. 

[jimmydeanno]

It shouldn't be dependent on our new members walking in the door to fix our problems.  When you go to a restaurant and the food sucks, do you jump in the kitchen and show them how to cook?

New members should be able to join our units and start getting the knowledge they'd need to perform our missions, not be thrown into "fixing our problems."  It seems a bit odd that the expectation is that the new folks walking in the door know how to do what we do better than we do.  Maybe we should do some in house sprucing up first.

[AngelWings]

It shouldn't be dependent on our new members walking in the door to fix our problems.  When you go to a restaurant and the food sucks, do you jump in the kitchen and show them how to cook?

New members should be able to join our units and start getting the knowledge they'd need to perform our missions, not be thrown into "fixing our problems."  It seems a bit odd that the expectation is that the new folks walking in the door know how to do what we do better than we do.  Maybe we should do some in house sprucing up first.

It shouldn't, you're 100% correct. I agree with you, and wish what I said was totally wrong. However, it seems people don't want to change their style to incorpoate new things, and a push here and a training oppurtunity there certainly makes things move. It is not the new members fault at all, it is the leadership that is resistant to any form of change's fault. It is a lesson I've learned in CAP. Not everyone shares the same interest in training and missions. Look at how divided the we are. There are units out there that focus on one aspect of our 3 missions, and there are Drill squadrons, flying club squadrons, ES squadron, Cadet Programs squadrons, Senior squadrons, Cadet squadrons, Military minded squadrons, "I don't like military uniforms" squadrons, and more. The variety is astounding. Sometimes, a new member has to push for change for things to change in a squadron. I know, I know, it isn't their responsibility to, but if they want it done, it sometimes is their job to push for it.

[Private Investigator]

I have concluded this organization is a joke...

Well that is an interesting opinion. Some people are a better fit for Red Cross or the Salvation Army. Some Cadets will be better off in girl scouts or being the little league hero.   

[a2capt]

Well, yes- there's been some things that have been a joke over the last 10 years.

OTOH, the things I have done that I have been able to make a difference in someones life, the cadets and senior members that have thanked me, the commanders and project officers that have put me in for awards for recognition, and more ...

Have all been worth every gallon of gasoline I've bought so cadets can get to Color Guard practices, O-Flights, mission bases, and many more activities. All of the supplies I've burned through, hours in front of the computer into the wee hours of the morning...

All of it. 100% of it, practically without any payback other than "Thank You", has been worth it ten times over.

[Extremepredjudice]

Thank you sir, for all your hard work.