BCUT

[ElectricPenguin]

Does ANYONE know how to take a BCUT course? I have asked around and no one seems to know.

[vento]

Ask your Communications Officer for class schedules.

In Southern California, the class is offered a couple of times a year and it is a solid eight hours class plus a test at the conclusion of the class.

[Spaceman3750]

Ask your Communications Officer for class schedules.

In Southern California, the class is offered a couple of times a year and it is a solid eight hours class plus a test at the conclusion of the class.

Talk about overkill. If that's BCUT, I'm almost afraid to ask what ACUT is.

[jks19714]

Does your unit have a Communications Officer?  If not, an Emergency Services Officer?  They should be able to find a class already scheduled or an instructor.

In our Cadet Squadron, we have several comm folks and have a couple of BCUT classes a year. 

john

[jks19714]

Does your unit have a Communications Officer?  If not, an Emergency Services Officer?  They should be able to find a class already scheduled or an instructor.

In our Cadet Squadron, we have several comm folks and have a couple of BCUT classes a year.  And they run about 2-3 hours.  We give folks OJT during SAREXs, usually in the Wing Mobile CP.

john

[Eclipse]

Ask your Communications Officer for class schedules.

In Southern California, the class is offered a couple of times a year and it is a solid eight hours class plus a test at the conclusion of the class.

That's twice what it should be and too much for A-Cut as well.

3-4 for B, about 6 for A should more than cover it.

[ßτε]

Ask your Communications Officer for class schedules.

In Southern California, the class is offered a couple of times a year and it is a solid eight hours class plus a test at the conclusion of the class.

That would be for ACUT along with some MRO tasks. BCUT is much less.

[lordmonar]

Ask your Communications Officer for class schedules.

In Southern California, the class is offered a couple of times a year and it is a solid eight hours class plus a test at the conclusion of the class.

Talk about overkill. If that's BCUT, I'm almost afraid to ask what ACUT is.

Tell me about it!  That is my big heart burn with CAP comm.

2-3 hours max....including hands on.
90% of CAP members simply need the BCUT so they can talk on the hand held/vehicle/aircraft radios.
8 hours is just too much!

[SarDragon]

I've been teaching ROA classes in SoCal for about ten years. We used to put BCUT and ACUT and some hands-on into an 8-hour day. It worked really well. Now we farm out the BCUT to the unit Comm Officers, and the formal class we now teach is ACUT, MRO Fam & Prep, and some hands-on using a scripted scenario, and some ISRs. That takes about 7 hours, and works even better.

[vento]

Ask your Communications Officer for class schedules.

In Southern California, the class is offered a couple of times a year and it is a solid eight hours class plus a test at the conclusion of the class.

Talk about overkill. If that's BCUT, I'm almost afraid to ask what ACUT is.

For us, at least when I took it, it was the exact same thing. You take the test and pass with an average score then you get BCUT. You take the test and pass with above average score (I forget the percentage) and you get ACUT. I think the current class is slightly shorter than 8 hours because a lot of materials were removed. I can't speak for the others but as somebody new in radio comm I did actually learn quite a bit during the class.

[vento]

I've been teaching ROA classes in SoCal for about ten years. We used to put BCUT and ACUT and some hands-on into an 8-hour day. It worked really well. Now we farm out the BCUT to the unit Comm Officers, and the formal class we now teach is ACUT, MRO Fam & Prep, and some hands-on using a scripted scenario, and some ISRs. That takes about 7 hours, and works even better.

What SarDragon said. 

[SarDragon]

BTW, we have courses here in SoCal (Group 7, primarily) at least three times a year. We used to have them quarterly, but our student load went down, so we cut back the regularly scheduled classes to every four months, with three different locations, to cover the entire group. I've held extra classes a couple of times in the past two or three years to cover a unit that asks for a special class.

One other thing. Take the ACUT class, and fail the test - you get a BCUT, and are still able to do the rest of the MRO and hands-on training.

[EMT-83]

I don't remember a requirement for a BCUT test. In fact, I'm sure there isn't one.

ACUT, on the other hand, did have a written test. Poorly written questions, references to outdated regulations, outright incorrect information – but, by God, there was a test.

[arajca]

BCUT does not have a test. ACUT has a questionnaire, not a 'test'. Semantics, but the requirements for test control and administration lead National to make the change since very few comm instructors were TCOs. The result of the questionnaire - open book, 80% pass, correct to 100%.

Given that ACUT lists the questionnaire and BCUT make no mention of anything similar, it has been put forth by National that BCUT cannot have a test associated with it. 

Also, ACUT should take no more than 4 hours.

This training will normally require no more than 4 hours. If more than 4 hours of training is deemed necessary, a separate and optional class for those individuals interested in further training should be considered.

BCUT used to have similar language, with a 90 min limit, but it has been removed.

[RADIOMAN015]

Ask your Communications Officer for class schedules.

In Southern California, the class is offered a couple of times a year and it is a solid eight hours class plus a test at the conclusion of the class.

Talk about overkill. If that's BCUT, I'm almost afraid to ask what ACUT is.

Tell me about it!  That is my big heart burn with CAP comm.

2-3 hours max....including hands on.
90% of CAP members simply need the BCUT so they can talk on the hand held/vehicle/aircraft radios.
8 hours is just too much!

Wow, that's a lot of "talk" for 8 hours!!!
With the BCUT you want the member to have a "basic" understanding of the radio equipment operation/limitations, radio talk/terminology, and specific wing related information (e.g. repeater locations/channels to use).   The issue with CAP comms (and just about every other operational/ES rating) is that everyone wants the "bling" of getting various ratings, BUT most will only do the minimum required rather than trying to take advantage of all the "hands on" training opportunities that may be available.  I'm an advocate of squadron level training where the technical proficiency exists because it saves the member (travel) time & money.  So I like the idea of an on line course and than some practical training at the squadron level. 

Surely our members that are trained communicators should at least know how to ensure the radio is connected to an antenna before transmitting, know how to operate the various radios (e.g. turn on/off, change channels, scan mode, volume adjustment, solve problems), basic terminology (e.g. this is, over, out, roger, wilco, say again, etc), and have a good idea where the radio will likely work (e.g. the higher the elevation the better the VHF radio will work).       

Should be interesting to see how ICUT turns out!
RM

[lordmonar]

If it is taking you 8 hour to teach a basic user how to use an EF Johnson or an ISR.....you are not doing it right!

My problem with the Comm community is the concept of "basic" comm.

EF Johnson hand held--On/off switch, change batteries, change channels, dos and don'ts......20 minutes.
Phonetic alphabet........10 minutes
Pro-words..........20 minutes
"telephone game" (or the importance of writing things down)......10 minutes
Comm Exercise for up to ten people......... 60 minutes.

Two hours.....and you are ready to go out to the airshow/mission base/aircraft and use the radio as an ES trainee (i.e. under supervision) or get on the Comm Net as Comm Tech trainee (again under supervision).

This is not about bling.....this is about Comm stove pipeing the training.  Holding only 3 classes a year......rediculous.  It should be held at the squadron when and as needed.

Leave the indepth training for the Comm people.....but let us operators get the basic sign off and let us get on with mission.

[Al Sayre]

^^ :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Extremepredjudice]

I got my ACUT in about 4 hours... 

[HGjunkie]

I had a 7h ACUT course. Because apparently spending an hour on all of FLWG's current and upcoming communications plans, capabilities and about 50 other things was necessary. It was all useful information nonetheless, but some of the guys who were there were about to keel over from boredom. 

OTOH, I got a perfect 100 on the test afterwards.

[lordmonar]

ACUT is completely unnecessary unless you are going to be in the Comm community (squadron comm officer, CUL, etc).  You don't need to know all that stuff just to get issued a CAP radio or get your own call sign.

[HGjunkie]

ACUT is completely unnecessary unless you are going to be in the Comm community (squadron comm officer, CUL, etc).  You don't need to know all that stuff just to get issued a CAP radio or get your own call sign.

Eh, I got a radio for personal use (still need to get it programmed) and having ACUT in FLWG makes it easier getting callsign approval.

[lordmonar]

ACUT is completely unnecessary unless you are going to be in the Comm community (squadron comm officer, CUL, etc).  You don't need to know all that stuff just to get issued a CAP radio or get your own call sign.

Eh, I got a radio for personal use (still need to get it programmed) and having ACUT in FLWG makes it easier getting callsign approval.

but that is my point.....if all you want/need is a call sign....do you really need to know how the repeater system works?  How HF communications plan is implemented nation wide?  Or all that other great information you got in ACUT?  No....not if you are just going to be using your own EF Johnson.

But.....the Comm Community has decreed that in order to get your personal radio approved and a call sign issued....you must go through ACUT. 
Add to that....there are a couple of PD specialties that require ACUT and BCUT......It is like requiring a tractor-trailer comercial driver's license to drive your Ford Pick up truck......good training and you can do a lot of things with it......but all you need is clearance to drive the pick up.

The breifing I saw about ICUT looks like it really addressed this sort of thing.  It scales up and provides the right training for the right specialty....i.e. Ground teams learn how to use hand helds and the vehicle radios....and air crew only learn how to use the airplane radios.....but MRO's add on the HF and base stations.  Unit comm officers go through the track that teaches about inventories and training.....etc.

But from the rumors I have heard here....it looks like even with the on line modules.....they are still stuck with trying to figure out "who can sign off on the practical skills".......They are called "master Rated Comm Officers".

[Private Investigator]

Does your unit have a Communications Officer?  If not, an Emergency Services Officer? 

Usually if a Squadron does not have a Communications Officer, they won't have a ES Officer either.

Another problem is you have a Comm Officer in name only. Joe Blow has been a HAM for 50 years and knows it all but you ask him a CAP Comm question and he'll never get back to you. Or as a visitor to a Unit I have asked a Comm Officer "wheres the radio room?" We don't have one. I would think a Unit Comm Officer would have Unit Comm setup somewhere.

Rant mode off.

[arajca]

Does your unit have a Communications Officer?  If not, an Emergency Services Officer? 

Usually if a Squadron does not have a Communications Officer, they won't have a ES Officer either.

Another problem is you have a Comm Officer in name only. Joe Blow has been a HAM for 50 years and knows it all but you ask him a CAP Comm question and he'll never get back to you. Or as a visitor to a Unit I have asked a Comm Officer "wheres the radio room?" We don't have one. I would think a Unit Comm Officer would have Unit Comm setup somewhere.

Rant mode off.

Unfortunately, not all units have dedicated space. Some have space only on their meeting nights, others may have dedicated space to store such things a files and supplies, but only have meeting space on thier meeting nights. Many cannot install radio antennas at their meeting place on a permenant basis. If you ask my Comm Officer where's the radio room, you'll get "We don't have one." The place we meet al gives us an 8 x 8 closet for all our stuff and there isn't room for a radio operator in there. Plus, they won't permit installing an antenna. We do have a VHF base station w/ portable antenna system we can set as needed stored in the closet.

[lordmonar]

Does your unit have a Communications Officer?  If not, an Emergency Services Officer? 

Usually if a Squadron does not have a Communications Officer, they won't have a ES Officer either.

Another problem is you have a Comm Officer in name only. Joe Blow has been a HAM for 50 years and knows it all but you ask him a CAP Comm question and he'll never get back to you. Or as a visitor to a Unit I have asked a Comm Officer "wheres the radio room?" We don't have one. I would think a Unit Comm Officer would have Unit Comm setup somewhere.

Rant mode off.

When you appoint a comm officer but the Wing Comm guy does zero to help him out....he can't get authorised to teach BCUT....and you can't get any radios out of wing's garage.........it seems that IMHO....of course not all wings and comm guys are like this.......is that if you are not a 50 year HAM that can code at 150 WPM....they don't want to talk to you.

[Spaceman3750]

Does your unit have a Communications Officer?  If not, an Emergency Services Officer? 

Usually if a Squadron does not have a Communications Officer, they won't have a ES Officer either.

Another problem is you have a Comm Officer in name only. Joe Blow has been a HAM for 50 years and knows it all but you ask him a CAP Comm question and he'll never get back to you. Or as a visitor to a Unit I have asked a Comm Officer "wheres the radio room?" We don't have one. I would think a Unit Comm Officer would have Unit Comm setup somewhere.

Rant mode off.

When you appoint a comm officer but the Wing Comm guy does zero to help him out....he can't get authorised to teach BCUT....and you can't get any radios out of wing's garage.........it seems that IMHO....of course not all wings and comm guys are like this.......is that if you are not a 50 year HAM that can code at 150 WPM....they don't want to talk to you.

Why does he need radios out of wing's garage? Each unit is authorized 5 ISRs and a mobile under the ToA. In my wing, most units have had those in the cabinet for eons. Beyond that, comm is there for operational (in all of its forms, not just ES) support, not comm officers who want to play ham.

[arajca]

Many of the hams I've met who are initially interested in CAP get turned off when they're told their 20 year old Icom cannot be used for CAP, even though it's a simple matter to expand the range to cover the CAP range. Or they ignore the policies and procedures established by CAP and use gibberish only hams understand on the radio and get pissed off when they're removed from operating the radio because of it. THen there are God's Gifts to the Radio Communications World who worked with Marconi and KNOW what worked then works now, and all this new fangled crap is a distraction. A key is all they need.

There are many hams, although in the minority in my experience, who get involved and understand what is needed to operate in the CAP comm system AND are willing to work within our limitations.

[lordmonar]

When I first took over.....we were forming two ground team....as directed by the wing commander.  That is two hand helds and 5 ISR's by the TO&E you mentioned.   When I asked where they are.....I was told "all you have to do is ask for them"  Six months later 20 E-mails and phone calls....nothing.

I am not very impressed by CAP COMM.
My wing has not held regularly scheduled nets in over six years....and region and national have done nothing to fix it.  ICUT has been in the works for years now.....it took them forever to do the cut over to digital....and it is still not finished 100%.

Again....there are some great comm guys out there.  I got some guys local who can do B-cut for me when I need it....there are some technical types out there who can fix and rig just about anything.....but as a system/program.....it does not work as advertised. 

BTW.....I am a retired USAF comm guy.....so I know how it should/could work.

[Duke Dillio]

eh, I've seen the same thing that Patrick is talking about.  Wing comm officers who don't want to issue equipment because then it is a "hassle" to do the comm inventory.  That and the "approved" list of communicators who are "allowed" to teach BCUT and ACUT.  When I got an approval to teach BCUT years ago I had to fight to get on the list.  When I explained to them that I had served as a forward observer and that the radio was my life for 5 years, they reluctantly accepted me.  They wanted me to have a ham tech license IIRC which was totally not required.  When I got to this wing, I told the comm director that I was a GTL and he issued me a handheld, a mobile and two ISR's.  That's the way I think it should be.  Instead of comm equipment sitting in a cupboard at a squadron's HQ, give it to the people that actually need them and will use them.  I think that if I would have asked I might have walked out with an HF radio as well.  That having been said, if he tells me that he needs the equipment for an activity or what not then I will get it back to him as quickly as I can.

[cap235629]

I am one of the few non HAM DC's in CAP I think. I come from a Military/Public Safety background so my COMM direction comes from an operational standpoint.  I feel that HAMS tend to make things more difficult than they actually help....

[wuzafuzz]

Wow, the comm and ham hate here is impressive. 

Most of the high performing CAP communicators I know are hams.  Obtaining an amateur radio license certainly isn't a prerequisite for CAP Comm, but it does teach skills that are helpful.  Of course there are other ways to obtain those skills.  Granted, some hams demonstrate a lack of tact and social skills that make me cringe.  I can say the same for a fair number of folks I've worked with in all CAP specialties.

Just yesterday I ran a CAP info booth at a hamfest.  We found 4 or 5 prospective members, plus a few parents who think it might be a good fit for their kids.  We carefully explained the difference between the amateur and CAP radio services.  We also highlighted the similarities.  If that initial exchange of information is handled properly it's easy to manage expectations and later heartburn.  Bagging on people with an interest in communications, because of stereotypes, is counterproductive and contrary to our core values.  People in the Communications track and Comm Unit Leaders should have an understanding of how and why radios work.  They should have basic troubleshooting skills or they aren't providing the service CAP needs.  Even UDF, ground teams, and aircrews should have a basic understanding of radio propagation if they expect to find any beacons.  Amateur radio operators are one of the places we can find people with those skills.  I welcome all communicators who will follow CAP rules and procedures, whether they are hams or not. 


It does sound like some folks have lousy experiences with CAP communications.  That's unfortunate and I wish it wasn't the case.  Rest assured "the problem with CAP Communications" isn't the case in all wings.  In COWG we have worked hard to get HF deployed with more members, but few people have the interest or ability to raise the antenna.  Our portable radios are all issued; none are sitting in storage.  Our best mobile radios are all issued, the only ones in storage are those pending issue to new homes.  We teach BCUT in a couple of hours.  Classes are offered as often as our personal schedules can stand, with instructors in each group.  We really try to offer the best service to our wing and all its members.  Sometimes people disagree with how we do that, but it's impossible to keep everyone happy all the time.

[SarDragon]

Some comments here to address a couple of posts.

Our ACUT incorporates the BCUT info. If they don't pass the test, they get BCUT. Pass the test, and get an ACUT. There is no prerequisite, except the desire to learn.

BCUT is more than just:

EF Johnson hand held--On/off switch, change batteries, change channels, dos and don'ts......20 minutes.
Phonetic alphabet........10 minutes
Pro-words..........20 minutes
"telephone game" (or the importance of writing things down)......10 minutes
Comm Exercise for up to ten people......... 60 minutes.

Proper operators need to learn some of the background info in the Comm arena, especially folks who are new to Comm. Understanding the underlying structure of CAP Comm, and some of the rules and regs, helps prevent procedural problems down the road.

My intro to Comm was as an avionics tech in the Navy, although I never worked on comm gear, other than R&R of A/C radios. I did get basic operator training, since I had to do radio checks, and occasionally talk to the tower when taxiing to the high power turn area. I got drafted into CAP Comm by a retired AF communicator in my squadron, when he found out that I was an avionics tech, and a trained instructor. Been teaching ROA classes ever since.

Hams and pilots need to be taught the differences between what they have been doing, and CAP procedures.

[Eclipse]

eh, I've seen the same thing that Patrick is talking about.  Wing comm officers who don't want to issue equipment because then it is a "hassle" to do the comm inventory.

The Wing DC's can only issue equipment as authorized by the applicable TOA, and during CI time they are gigged for sitting on assets that could be otherwise used elsewhere.  It is common for a Wing to exhaust the eligible TOA's and still have a good stack of equipment that has to be returned because there are units with no COMM / ES people, the commanders don't want to be "bothered", or variations on that theme.

I am personally in favor of requiring members with issued or licensed personal radios to check into a net on a regular basis to maintain their credentials
and station licenses, but that is not something we have been pushing.  People make excuses about repeater range and lack of a local net instead of
just having a local net, and then in a lot of cases the only people on the nets are members who do not otherwise participate, and in many cases have no
ES ratings to actually do anything were we to need them.

We need to raise expectations in regards to giving someone a couple grand worth of gear, but we also need to understand and focus on the reason we have those radios - ES.  Any other use is ancillary and a value-add (encampments, air shows, etc.), but we are no longer a national, dial-tone replacement.

[lordmonar]

It does sound like some folks have lousy experiences with CAP communications.  That's unfortunate and I wish it wasn't the case.  Rest assured "the problem with CAP Communications" isn't the case in all wings.  In COWG we have worked hard to get HF deployed with more members, but few people have the interest or ability to raise the antenna.  Our portable radios are all issued; none are sitting in storage.  Our best mobile radios are all issued, the only ones in storage are those pending issue to new homes.  We teach BCUT in a couple of hours.  Classes are offered as often as our personal schedules can stand, with instructors in each group.  We really try to offer the best service to our wing and all its members.  Sometimes people disagree with how we do that, but it's impossible to keep everyone happy all the time.

I want to restate.....I know there are wings out there that do it right...and there are comm guys out there that do it right.  But....when an entire wing is failing (IMHO) and no action has been taken to correct it in over 6 years....there are other problems in the over all system.

[usafcap1]

from what we have been told is that BCUT is out and ICUT is the new BCUT

[SarDragon]

It isn't quite reality, yet. If you have an opportunity for BCUT, take it.The latest that I heard is ICUT won't hit the street until June.