New ES Patch --need help posting the picture

[AngelWings]

Here is a set of DCU's to show. I've seen units that are attached to the army wear the flag on the shoulder in BDU's like we do here in CAP.

My post didn't address flags, only patches worn over the nametape. I related my own experience on that.

That being said, flags were sometimes worn on BDUs by Air Force when deployed, sometimes they weren't. It seemed so inconsistent that I don't even know what the policy actually was.

The Army wore when deployed so consistently that they just mandated it on the ACU. Since just about everyone was going to be deployed, it was a perfectly reasonable addition to the latest utility uniform.

Oops, I was just going for zonaman, my bad.

[GroundHawg]

My last deployment I wore ACU's with a IR flag patch as USAF. I havent hit 100 posts yet or I would attach a photo.

[Hawk200]

My last deployment I wore ACU's with a IR flag patch as USAF. I havent hit 100 posts yet or I would attach a photo.

I've got one of those still. Turns out it's on my issue list. Never wore it, so they won't have any problem reissuing it.

[afgeo4]

Since we are talking about patches and badges . . .

Can anyone tell me why the flag patch is still on our uniform. I love and respect our flag, but it's not part of the regular AF uniform that I know of. I know it's there so we are not mixed up with the Mexican Army (T.P.). I'm just surprised it was never removed when the " US Civil Air Patrol" tapes were axed.

Oh snap, a flag on an Air Force uniform!

Oh snap! That's NOT an Air Force uniform. That's an Army uniform with USAF insignia because the person wearing it is attached to an Army unit and is authorized (I hope) to wear it. Although I'm pretty sure I read regs that prohibit any airmen, including combat airment from wearing other branch's uniforms past ABU rollout. Either way, that's not an Air Force uniform.

[MIKE]

Wrong George... Go update yourself on the policy on OCP for USAF units in the 'stan.  You could start where the picture comes from.

[afgeo4]

Here is a set of DCU's to show. I've seen units that are attached to the army wear the flag on the shoulder in BDU's like we do here in CAP.

My post didn't address flags, only patches worn over the nametape. I related my own experience on that.

That being said, flags were sometimes worn on BDUs by Air Force when deployed, sometimes they weren't. It seemed so inconsistent that I don't even know what the policy actually was.

The Army wore when deployed so consistently that they just mandated it on the ACU. Since just about everyone was going to be deployed, it was a perfectly reasonable addition to the latest utility uniform.

Correction: Combat Airmen attached to Army units WERE allowed to wear full Army uniforms with USAF markings. They aren't anymore. Once issued ABU, an airman, including combat airmen, must wear the ABU and not the sister service's uniform. That includes Special Tactics, Pararescue, Combat Weather, TACP, TCC, everyone. Now, do they follow those regs? That's another story.
Units/members directly attacked to ARMY units are allowed to wear their uniforms or wear USAF uniforms in ARMY configuaration.
Hence the flag on athe multicams and the combat unit patch on USAF uniforms.

Back in my Bosnia Days.....everyone deploying on the AEF wore a U.S. Flag.  The USAF made us take it off when back in garrison.  The Army just decided to wear it all the time.

The Flag on the CAP uniform came after katrina.  Lots of rumors of why...which I will not repeat.....but there it is.

[afgeo4]

Wrong George... Go update yourself on the policy on OCP for USAF units in the 'stan.  You could start where the picture comes from.

I stand corrected. As of March, all Airmen deploying to Afghanistan are wearing multi-cam.

[Buzz]

Do we really need an emergency services patch of any kind at all?

We could go all the way, and adopt the PRC People's Liberation Army standard of not having any insignia whatsoever.

The standard didn't work.

So, YES, we need an ES patch.  If nothing else, when non-CAP types see the words "Emergency Services" they get an instant impression that maybe we're not Boy Scouts.

I like Pluto better than the T-34, but either one is good.

[davidsinn]

Do we really need an emergency services patch of any kind at all?

We could go all the way, and adopt the PRC People's Liberation Army standard of not having any insignia whatsoever.

The standard didn't work.

So, YES, we need an ES patch.  If nothing else, when non-CAP types see the words "Emergency Services" they get an instant impression that maybe we're not Boy Scouts.

I like Pluto better than the T-34, but either one is good.

The public isn't smart enough to read the bright white on blue nametapes to know we're not in the Army. What makes you think they'd read the ES patch with even smaller text and actually comprehend it?

[Zen Master Charlie]

Wrong George... Go update yourself on the policy on OCP for USAF units in the 'stan.  You could start where the picture comes from.

I stand corrected. As of March, all Airmen deploying to Afghanistan are wearing multi-cam.

Some special operations units in Pararescue and a few others have been wearing multicam for about two years. When I was looking at officer jobs in the Air Force on their webpage last year it had a picture of a Combat Operations Officer wearing multicam in a Pavehawk. Obviously its not practical and waaay to friggin expensive, but CAP=Multicam, I'd be cool with that Haha, if we ever switch to ABU's, it will only be because the Air Force switched to Multicam 

[Eclipse]

So, YES, we need an ES patch.  If nothing else, when non-CAP types see the words "Emergency Services" they get an instant impression that maybe we're not Boy Scouts.

Non-CAP people don't need to know what we're doing and certainly won't learn from the patch. 

In most cases, if you're in with the masses, you're wearing a vest over the shirt anyway.

[Chief2009]

Obviously its not practical and waaay to friggin expensive, but CAP=Multicam, I'd be cool with that Haha, if we ever switch to ABU's, it will only be because the Air Force switched to Multicam 

Oh god, not again.

[zonaman]

Obviously its not practical and waaay to friggin expensive, but CAP=Multicam, I'd be cool with that Haha, if we ever switch to ABU's, it will only be because the Air Force switched to Multicam 

Oh god, not again.

this makes me laugh . . .

[lordmonar]

Do we really need an emergency services patch of any kind at all?

We could go all the way, and adopt the PRC People's Liberation Army standard of not having any insignia whatsoever.

The standard didn't work.

So, YES, we need an ES patch.  If nothing else, when non-CAP types see the words "Emergency Services" they get an instant impression that maybe we're not Boy Scouts.

I like Pluto better than the T-34, but either one is good.

Like the BDU's is not a dead give away.

[ol'fido]

Do we really need an emergency services patch of any kind at all?

We could go all the way, and adopt the PRC People's Liberation Army standard of not having any insignia whatsoever.

The standard didn't work.

So, YES, we need an ES patch.  If nothing else, when non-CAP types see the words "Emergency Services" they get an instant impression that maybe we're not Boy Scouts.

I like Pluto better than the T-34, but either one is good.

Like the BDU's is not a dead give away.

Plus the fact that you shouldn't be acting like the Boy Scouts. Professionalism is combination of appearance, demeanor, and demonstrated competence. It's not what you've got plastered on your uniform. You can look like a recruiting poster with all the doodads sewn on, starched BDUs, and spit shined boots and still prove yourself to be a boob the first time you open your mouth.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Do we really need an emergency services patch of any kind at all?

We could go all the way, and adopt the PRC People's Liberation Army standard of not having any insignia whatsoever.

The standard didn't work.

So, YES, we need an ES patch.  If nothing else, when non-CAP types see the words "Emergency Services" they get an instant impression that maybe we're not Boy Scouts.

I like Pluto better than the T-34, but either one is good.

Like the BDU's is not a dead give away.

Plus the fact that you shouldn't be acting like the Boy Scouts. Professionalism is combination of appearance, demeanor, and demonstrated competence. It's not what you've got plastered on your uniform. You can look like a recruiting poster with all the doodads sewn on, starched BDUs, and spit shined boots and still prove yourself to be a boob the first time you open your mouth.

And that happens a heck of a lot in CAP. Though, usually, without the starch or spit-shine. The patch is redundant, so why wear it? My ops quals are on the other side of my chest. Just look over there. You don't see anyone in Ma Blue wearing their wings on one side and "AIR FORCE AVIATION" on the other side in a big, red-white-and-blue patch with a T-38 or Donald Duck on it.

[afgeo4]

Do we really need an emergency services patch of any kind at all?

We could go all the way, and adopt the PRC People's Liberation Army standard of not having any insignia whatsoever.

The standard didn't work.

So, YES, we need an ES patch.  If nothing else, when non-CAP types see the words "Emergency Services" they get an instant impression that maybe we're not Boy Scouts.

I like Pluto better than the T-34, but either one is good.

Like the BDU's is not a dead give away.

Plus the fact that you shouldn't be acting like the Boy Scouts. Professionalism is combination of appearance, demeanor, and demonstrated competence. It's not what you've got plastered on your uniform. You can look like a recruiting poster with all the doodads sewn on, starched BDUs, and spit shined boots and still prove yourself to be a boob the first time you open your mouth.

And that happens a heck of a lot in CAP. Though, usually, without the starch or spit-shine. The patch is redundant, so why wear it? My ops quals are on the other side of my chest. Just look over there. You don't see anyone in Ma Blue wearing their wings on one side and "AIR FORCE AVIATION" on the other side in a big, red-white-and-blue patch with a T-38 or Donald Duck on it.

I'm a fully ES qualified MSA and working on MRO. The patch is the only authorized uniform identification of my qualifications in ES. Going by your logic, we should just eliminate the GT badge and simply authorize ALL ES qualified personnel to wear the patch. No need for redundancy, right?

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Do we really need an emergency services patch of any kind at all?

We could go all the way, and adopt the PRC People's Liberation Army standard of not having any insignia whatsoever.

The standard didn't work.

So, YES, we need an ES patch.  If nothing else, when non-CAP types see the words "Emergency Services" they get an instant impression that maybe we're not Boy Scouts.

I like Pluto better than the T-34, but either one is good.

Like the BDU's is not a dead give away.

Plus the fact that you shouldn't be acting like the Boy Scouts. Professionalism is combination of appearance, demeanor, and demonstrated competence. It's not what you've got plastered on your uniform. You can look like a recruiting poster with all the doodads sewn on, starched BDUs, and spit shined boots and still prove yourself to be a boob the first time you open your mouth.

And that happens a heck of a lot in CAP. Though, usually, without the starch or spit-shine. The patch is redundant, so why wear it? My ops quals are on the other side of my chest. Just look over there. You don't see anyone in Ma Blue wearing their wings on one side and "AIR FORCE AVIATION" on the other side in a big, red-white-and-blue patch with a T-38 or Donald Duck on it.

I'm a fully ES qualified MSA and working on MRO. The patch is the only authorized uniform identification of my qualifications in ES. Going by your logic, we should just eliminate the GT badge and simply authorize ALL ES qualified personnel to wear the patch. No need for redundancy, right?

Nope, not at all. If you're a mission radio operator, do you not have a communications badge? Communications is an operational component of CAP, and even if you're not 101 qualified, chances are, you've supported a mission as a radio op.

And my logic isn't that we should wipe out everything and use the dog or the plane patches. It's that the qualifications we wear elsewhere make that patch redundant, if not useless. Wear your communications insignia or your ground-team badge well. Leave the multicolor, silly patches on the Boy Scout sash.

[arajca]

Nope, not at all. If you're a mission radio operator, do you not have a communications badge? Communications is an operational component of CAP, and even if you're not 101 qualified, chances are, you've supported a mission as a radio op.

The Comm Badge is awarded for completing the Technician rating of the Communcations Officer Specialty trach, not for being an MRO. Serving in a communications position as a radio operator is only one part of the specialty track. Cadets can be awarded the badge as they can complete all aspects of the Technician rating.

[ol'fido]

Like I said earlier, we need to eliminate the Comm patch and the ES patch and replace them with ES qual badges. So we would have aeronautical badges, ES badges, and specialty track badges. GES would not have a badge but as soon as you get any ES qual you could qualify for a badge in MBS, GT/GBD, Comm, Aircrew(gives us MS something to wear or maybe a set of wings with a "C" instead of the "O"), IC, UDF, and FL. May need to add a few more "degrees" to some of these to come up with a basic, senior, master/command format i.e. Mission Radio Operator(BCUT), Senior RO(ACUT), Master RO(CUL).  I haven't got a whole system worked out but you get the drift?