New ES Patch --need help posting the picture

[AirDX]

If'n you really want a badge for ES vs. the patch:  establish ONE ES badge that is awarded for GES + one ES qual.

Wear ONLY if not superceded by another qual's badge, i.e. GT, IC, Observer.

Bonus points if it's not butt ugly like the GT badge.

Alternative: Implement a ribbon similar to the USAF Combat Readiness Medal.  Call it the Emergency Services Readiness Medal.  Award it, like the USAF version, at the end of 24 months of maintaining an ES qual above GES. 

[Eclipse]

The problem with a ribbon it is wouldn't be worn on field uniforms, flight suits, or even the golf shirt as ES badges are today.
Kinda defeats the purpose.

[zonaman]

Alright I'm jumping on board. . .

Down with the patch!
I don't wear mine eather, so I wasn't looking at the patch like bling but I guess it kinda is. Also I don't remember ever seeing the AF wear a patch in that spot on their BDU's, unless they used to and it just carried over with CAP.

[AirDX]

I would submit that the badge serves no purpose either.  The 101 card is the guiding document for what a member is qualified and current to do on agiven mission.  Badges/patches/ribbons are naught but bling to look pretty.

[Eclipse]

Many would say that about any and all uniforms.

[wuzafuzz]

I'm all for a ES communications badge, although I will concede I don't need it.  The two or three radios and speaker mics I'm wearing are usually a dead giveaway.  Add a notepad and a "where the heck did the AOBD disappear to this time" look and you know I'm a CUL at the moment 

Once upon a time I was an avid patch collector.  So I have an ES Pluto patch.  It's resting quietly on a shelf in my closet.  It is not currently, never has been, and never will be, attached to any of my uniforms.

[ol'fido]

We currently have a mish-mash of insignia because every few years someone decides we need to recognize some qualification or achievement and they get a badge or patch or pin approved that bears no relation to any other bell, whistle, bangle, or gong we wear.

I would be happy if someone would set down and come up with a uniform system of 1)Aeronautical Badges, 2)ES Qual Badges(of similar size and design, and 3) Specialty Track/Occupational Badges(again of similar shape and design).

You would be able to wear one of each on your blues( Aero and ES above the ribbons and ST/Occ. on the pocket like we do now. On the BDUs/Utilities/Flight Uniforms you would just wear the Aero and ES badges. So the ES patch and the comm patch would both go away.

If you were a lawyer, chaplain, MD, Nurse, etc those professional badges would stay and be worn in place of the ES badge on any uniform. The EMT badge could be redesigned to look more uniform with these as well since we don't have a medical ES qual.

Just my .02.

[Eclipse]

And while they've got Photoshop or Illustrator open, fix the IC badge, which looks like it was cut and pasted with literally scissors and tape.

[titanII]

looks like it was cut and pasted with literally scissors and tape.

Excuse me, Sir, but I don't believe one can paste with tape 

just kidding. I agree that the "Pluto" ES patch needs to be 86ed. Specifically, I like the system that ol'fido laid out. A badge for the stuff that you are qualified to do, so that somebody can look at you and say "Oh, he can help me with           ". At least I think that's what badges were originally meant to do   

[zonaman]

Since we are talking about patches and badges . . .

Can anyone tell me why the flag patch is still on our uniform. I love and respect our flag, but it's not part of the regular AF uniform that I know of. I know it's there so we are not mixed up with the Mexican Army (T.P.). I'm just surprised it was never removed when the " US Civil Air Patrol" tapes were axed.

>edit<
I also agree that the patches and badges need to be streamlined. It's as if a bunch of random people were just told "create this and don't look at what anyone else is doing". Especially the Specialty Track Badges, I wonder who ever designed then ever saw an AF occupation badge. (I am assuming CAP Speciality Track's would be similar to them)

[wuzafuzz]

I would be happy if someone would set down and come up with a uniform system of 1)Aeronautical Badges, 2)ES Qual Badges(of similar size and design, and 3) Specialty Track/Occupational Badges(again of similar shape and design).

arajca has done exactly that for ES and aeronautical insignia and his proposal is winding its way through ye olde chain of command.  I've seen his proposal and liked it.  It didn't address specialty tracks if I recall correctly.

[MIKE]

Since we are talking about patches and badges . . .

Can anyone tell me why the flag patch is still on our uniform. I love and respect our flag, but it's not part of the regular AF uniform that I know of. I know it's there so we are not mixed up with the Mexican Army (T.P.). I'm just surprised it was never removed when the " US Civil Air Patrol" tapes were axed.

Oh snap, a flag on an Air Force uniform!

[zonaman]

Since we are talking about patches and badges . . .

Can anyone tell me why the flag patch is still on our uniform. I love and respect our flag, but it's not part of the regular AF uniform that I know of. I know it's there so we are not mixed up with the Mexican Army (T.P.). I'm just surprised it was never removed when the " US Civil Air Patrol" tapes were axed.

Oh snap, a flag on an Air Force uniform!

I was talking about the regular AF uniform (ABU's) - Not the overseas uniform.

I give you props - that was pretty good. Is that your uniform?

[Hawk200]

Also I don't remember ever seeing the AF wear a patch in that spot on their BDU's, unless they used to and it just carried over with CAP.

I did while active duty Air Force. Seems like the last time I wore one over the nametape was back in '97. The final assignment I had didn't have one, so I only wore MAJCOM and a wing patch. Don't recall if the three patch configuration died off at a given point, or if they just dropped with the adoption of the ABU.

[arajca]

I would be happy if someone would set down and come up with a uniform system of 1)Aeronautical Badges, 2)ES Qual Badges(of similar size and design, and 3) Specialty Track/Occupational Badges(again of similar shape and design).

arajca has done exactly that for ES and aeronautical insignia and his proposal is winding its way through ye olde chain of command.  I've seen his proposal and liked it.  It didn't address specialty tracks if I recall correctly.

To roll specialty track badges in would be too much for one proposal.

[AirDX]

Can anyone tell me why the flag patch is still on our uniform. I love and respect our flag, but it's not part of the regular AF uniform that I know of. I know it's there so we are not mixed up with the Mexican Army (T.P.). I'm just surprised it was never removed when the " US Civil Air Patrol" tapes were axed.

Lunch at work: grilling elk steaks from Montana and ahi from Wake Island - the AD major (now LtCol) in the green bag worked in my office until a couple of months ago.  Looks like a flag on his shoulder.

[flyboy53]

I think that if want to have a more capable emergency services force; we need to tie in specialty tracks with ES quals.


Example: Logistics PD track- Mission logistics

So where do you tie in Cadet Programs? AE? Personnel?

What specialty track would GT be tied to?

If he only worried about finance/admin, admin, logistics, public affairs, and comms (the stuff that we have in common with ICS) it  makes fine sense.

That's the problem. Everybody has to have a badge and then all of a sudden everyone looks like a third world dictoator with badges on both sides of their uniforms. It's almost like the guy that dreamed uf the cadet ribbons from the 60s came back with a collection of enameled badges. Guess you can't tell I have an aversion to enamed badges. I won't wear any of the CAP ones...not just because there isn't any room on what I prefer to be a conservative dress uniform. It's because some of them look so silly on a military uniform.

I wish those who dreamed up the specality badge for every specialty would have just considered one badge as a broad spectrum speciality qualification badge and then concentrated on a similar badge that accomodated those ES specialities sans insignia like flight line marshallers.

Here's the thing, in other sections of CAP Talk, there has been a discussion about the MEMS program...to which, I qualified as a CAP officer. The badge itself is a 'general ES badge' and if the program is ever adopted by CAP, it would solve that problem.

One more thing. Although I respect the ES Patch and have preferred to wear the oval one on a baseball cap, why hasn't anyone ever considered tabs like ES or CERT, or something similar to be worn on the flight suits or BDUs over a wing patch?

Finally, here's another suggestion about the proposed ES Patch. Drop the OD scroll. Make it white with blue letters and why not consider making it a nationally recognized "special missions" patch. There isn't one for those crews. Wings did their own and because it was a locally approved patch, it could never legally be worn on a flight suit.

[AngelWings]

Also I don't remember ever seeing the AF wear a patch in that spot on their BDU's, unless they used to and it just carried over with CAP.

I did while active duty Air Force. Seems like the last time I wore one over the nametape was back in '97. The final assignment I had didn't have one, so I only wore MAJCOM and a wing patch. Don't recall if the three patch configuration died off at a given point, or if they just dropped with the adoption of the ABU.

Here is a set of DCU's to show. I've seen units that are attached to the army wear the flag on the shoulder in BDU's like we do here in CAP.

[Hawk200]

Here is a set of DCU's to show. I've seen units that are attached to the army wear the flag on the shoulder in BDU's like we do here in CAP.

My post didn't address flags, only patches worn over the nametape. I related my own experience on that.

That being said, flags were sometimes worn on BDUs by Air Force when deployed, sometimes they weren't. It seemed so inconsistent that I don't even know what the policy actually was.

The Army wore when deployed so consistently that they just mandated it on the ACU. Since just about everyone was going to be deployed, it was a perfectly reasonable addition to the latest utility uniform.

[lordmonar]

Here is a set of DCU's to show. I've seen units that are attached to the army wear the flag on the shoulder in BDU's like we do here in CAP.

My post didn't address flags, only patches worn over the nametape. I related my own experience on that.

That being said, flags were sometimes worn on BDUs by Air Force when deployed, sometimes they weren't. It seemed so inconsistent that I don't even know what the policy actually was.

The Army wore when deployed so consistently that they just mandated it on the ACU. Since just about everyone was going to be deployed, it was a perfectly reasonable addition to the latest utility uniform.

Units/members directly attacked to ARMY units are allowed to wear their uniforms or wear USAF uniforms in ARMY configuaration.
Hence the flag on athe multicams and the combat unit patch on USAF uniforms.

Back in my Bosnia Days.....everyone deploying on the AEF wore a U.S. Flag.  The USAF made us take it off when back in garrison.  The Army just decided to wear it all the time.

The Flag on the CAP uniform came after katrina.  Lots of rumors of why...which I will not repeat.....but there it is.