Nominating self for award?

[anonymous former c/col]

"Two......we get this all the time from former cadets who never really learn the lessons we try to impart.   SITUATIONAL LEADERSHIP.....this is not touchy feely BS this is real world leadership.....you use all the tools available because not everyone is the same.  Assuming that everyone has the same values as you....is a sign that you don't understand leadership." 

Leadership?  You're demonstrating leadership to yourself by giving yourself an award, promotion, eval...whatever?

I thought we were talking about a person awarding their own perceived accomplishments, not another person.  I love how this always comes around to someone's assertion that former cadets don't understand leadership, and "never really learn." 

I learned a big thing while being just a cadet in CAP:

Selfless service.

I lived by Pres Truman's: "There is no limit to what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit."

I disagree with the notion of putting yourself in for a commendation, which started this thread.   You have your own opinions, and that's fine, but you can't try to kill a debate with "you don't understand leadership." 

After my limited experience on CAPtalk I ask:  Is this a forum for debate about CAP, or not?   Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they didn't get something, or skipped the meeting they taught "leadership" in CAP.

[3DigitSpaatz]

Three....It may be more satisfying that someone recognises your work and sings your praises.....but sometimes you got to do it your self. ?

Jeezus, that's pathetic!

Well...  As long as you think you're great...     

I assume that you work in the real world and have, at least at one point, had to punch a time card.   I mean should your boss not known that you were at work and doing your job....that he should have done all the paperwork to makesure you got justly compensated?

I know at my work......if my employees don't fill out their time sheets correctly......it's their pay check.

Wow.  You must be real popular with subordinates. 

But who cares?  As long a you can buy yourself that "World's Greatest Boss" coffee mug, they can all pound sand, right?

[3DigitSpaatz]

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they didn't get something, or skipped the meeting they taught "leadership" in CAP.

+1 

I must have been absent for the meeting where they taught that the first rule of leadership is, "Lookin' out for numba one!!!"

[JC004]

Since I had decided to avoid CAPtalk, let me preamble with this: a well-placed friend emailed me and said "You're never gonna believe what they are talking about now on CAPtalk...giving themselves awards.  Go check it out."  He basically dared me to not respond.

Thus far I have not been known as the voice of controlled restraint.  I'm amazed at how many of you agree with this person.  Some of you need to hear something different, without fear of being locked, blocked, banned, etc.  Differences of opinion are necessary.

In my day a good bark was a quick way to get a point across quickly.  It's called hazing now.

No, as NIN said, I am not the voice of morality in CAP.  I am the voice of the way things used to be, and those of you still hangin' around have adopted the touchy feely mentality of the new era of the US.

My first instinct is to say "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!  CAP has really gotten pathetic.  You guys really think it's okay to put yourself in for an award beyond Red Service, recruiter, etc?  I would have been laughed out of my wing."

The reasoned adult in me who would try to explain this says: Really?  You're going to walk around proudly wearing an award for commendation/achievement (not something routine) that you put yourself in for?

How good does that feel?

What are you going to say when someone says "Oh, what did you get that ribbon for?"  You'll say what?  "I got it because I deserve it.  I did some good stuff for my CAP squadron this year."  What parallels can we draw to this?  I should have gotten the lifesaving award because I saved a drowning boy when I was 13?

How are you going to live with yourself writing a narrative on "how awesome you are?"  Are you okay with that kind of self-promotion?  I couldn't be.

It's better that someone recognizes your work, and goes through the trouble to do it for you.

Read this carefully: if no one recognized your work there is honor in being the tireless volunteer who only does this work for God, Country and Community, maybe you'll feel good about yourself, and trust that eventually you will be rewarded...

NOT TO WEAR A CHEAP LITTLE RIBBON.

...
my limited experience on CAPtalk
...

That is clear.

I am, however, glad that you have "well-placed" friends who keep an eye on it for you.  That way you don't miss something important that matters to you and your service.

I wish that I had well-placed friend like that who would keep a sharp eye on what CAPTalk is doing.  I feel unworthy now. 

It is a sad day in America when you need a well-placed friend to find something on a publicly-accessible web forum for you, but I guess that it what it has come to in this country. 

I, for one, would like to express my support for your crusade to restore the perfect days of old through your various work in the organization and your solid recommendations for a better alternative that you put here on CAPTalk.

[anonymous former c/col]

...
my limited experience on CAPtalk
...

That is clear.

I am, however, glad that you have "well-placed" friends who keep an eye on it for you.  That way you don't miss something important that matters to you and your service.

I wish that I had well-placed friend like that who would keep a sharp eye on what CAPTalk is doing.  I feel unworthy now. 

It is a sad day in America when you need a well-placed friend to find something on a publicly-accessible web forum for you, but I guess that it what it has come to in this country. 

I, for one, would like to express my support for your crusade to restore the perfect days of old through your various work in the organization and your solid recommendations for a better alternative that you put here on CAPTalk.

Wow.  Too bad there's not a sarcasm font.  Very constructive. 

So, all I'm trying to yell is this: this IS what being a CAP cadet taught me.  Senior Members from both prior service and 100% civilian taught me to not do something with an expectation of a material reward or award.  Senior Members, and cadets, drilled it into my head to not need such things as motivation or initiative to do good things.  As they put it, don't expect a cookie.

Do it because it's good.  Do it because it's the right thing to do.

That is what CAP taught me.

If you want bits of ribbon to feel good about yourself: go crazy. 

[flyboy53]

The sad fact is that you are assuming that your actions are deserving of a decoration that someone else will approve.

There are a couple of long standing lessons that are common among those of us who have been around the CAP for a while.

First, it is true that if you want something done, do it yourself. That same lesson applies to the Reserves and the Guard.

Second, there used to be a common understanding among AF NCOs that the number of service ribbons/decorations only indicates about a third of what someone did during their career.

That said, anyone can nominate someone else for an award or decoration. If you nominate yourself, you run the risk of showing that you're full of yourself -- which presents a whole new level of how you may be perceived by your unit -- and that your superiors may not think that the accomplishments merit the recognition you are seeking.

Therefore, my suggestion to you is assemble the information, take it to your commander, and let the individual decide if you deserve the recognition. Then be prepared. If the commander decides in your favor -- greatl. If he or she doesn't; be prepared to salute smartly, do an about face and carry on with your duties.

[RiverAux]

I figure it all sort of balances out -- there may be an award or two that I may deserve that I didn't get, but on the other hand I know that I've gotten a few awards that I didn't do anything in particular that was award worthy. 

[lordmonar]

flyboy1,

Don't think for a minute that my advocating "self nomination" is anyway implying that you should be jumping the chain.

All I am saying is that if you think you do good work.....taking a completed CAPF 120 or 2a to the commander when you "ask him about getting an award" is going to be very helpful.  If your commander really does not think you are deserving...then that's it.   Salute smartly and move on. 

On the other hand....we are all very busy and sometimes a little reminder and some help on the admin side of things helps out commanders to no end.

Now to AFC/C (Anonymous Former C/Col)........you missed the point.  Situational leadership means that individuals are motivated by different things.  You are motivated by the ideal of personal sacrifice and other intangibles....but others are motivated by the bling.   This is not saying one is better then the other.....just that they are different.  YOU did not learn this particular lesson.  If you had you would not be so animated in your response to the OP and those who...through their experience.....understand and support the OP.

You don't think someone should put themselves in for an award....okay good....I understand that.   Nothing wrong with that to a point.  When you see a bunch of members drop out because they did not get the recognition that they thought they deserved then that's the price CAP has to pay.


3DigitSpaats.......
I don't think you read my post correctly.  I only said that individuals are responsible for looking out for themselves.  I never said that a leader's first job is to look out for number one.  I never said that you advance yourself at the expense of your subordinate.

In this case the OP is a subordinate who has done the job of a leader (that is he completed the mission/job/project) and is now looking for recognition.  The OP's problem is not that he is seeking recognition but (maybe) he has poor leaders above him NOT doing their job.  The OP is doing his job as a leader, by knowing himself and knowing his wants and desires and is doing what needs to be done to achieve them.  He is not doing this on the backs other others, or by anything that is unethical. 

Like I said......having someone else sing your praises and give you pretty ribbons is a very effect leadership tool......but if you are not receiving the recognition you think you deserve.....it is incumbent up on you to seek it out.  And it is poor leadership to berate and belittle those who are motivated by simple bling.  It is a violation of CAP's core values and a waste of resources.

[anonymous former c/col]

No, lordmonar, I totally get that people are motivated by different things.  CAP did teach that as a cadet.  I can't cover every variable and nuance without taking pages to write my posts.  The original post asked for feedback.  I did so.  I like a lively debate too.  So, I am saying, that's fine if you want bling.  My cadet and adult education just taught me to be okay with not being rewarded. 

In my original post my whole point was: WIWAC, it was wrong to ask for an award - and it wasn't done.  If I had, I would have been laughed out of my wing.  I redacted it to get down to the point.

[lordmonar]

No, lordmonar, I totally get that people are motivated by different things.  CAP did teach that as a cadet.  I can't cover every variable and nuance without taking pages to write my posts.  The original post asked for feedback.  I did so.  I like a lively debate too.  So, I am saying, that's fine if you want bling.  My cadet and adult education just taught me to be okay with not being rewarded.

Well...that's not what you said in your original post. 

[Grumpy]

I would think it's odd to nominate yourself for something.

Not in CAP.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I would think it's odd to nominate yourself for something.

Not in CAP.

We're all Volunteers, with varying degrees on involvement.

Some units are on top of things and recognize their folks. Others, have folks who could and should look like third world dictators with decorations, but have nothing to show. Some don't care/fume quietly. Others want the recognition. Neither is wrong (except for the fumers!).

We don't get paid. We do it because we want to. But, when you have a range of units "doing it right", not giving it out at all, and those that give it out left and right, some of the "candy" side of things can sour the rest of the folks.

If you want it, ask for it. But don't be surprised if it feels more hollow when you do it that way.

[flyboy53]

So, we're back full circle.

As I noted, assemble the facts or information and take it to your unit commander.

If you want help in crafting the nomination and the citations, please see the attached guide. Otherwise, p.m. me and maybe I can help.

Good Luck.

[JC004]

...
Wow.  Too bad there's not a sarcasm font.
...

I know that's right.

BTW, is your "well-placed friend" an imaginary friend who came here to post directly before you did, from, you know - your keyboard? 

Perhaps if you don't "yell" as you put it, people could benefit from the knowledge that you say that you and your friend (other account) have.

"Two......we get this all the time from former cadets who never really learn the lessons we try to impart.   SITUATIONAL LEADERSHIP.....this is not touchy feely BS this is real world leadership.....you use all the tools available because not everyone is the same.  Assuming that everyone has the same values as you....is a sign that you don't understand leadership."

Leadership?  You're demonstrating leadership to yourself by giving yourself an award, promotion, eval...whatever?

I thought we were talking about a person awarding their own perceived accomplishments, not another person.

I love how this always comes around to someone's assertion that former cadets don't understand leadership, and "never really learn."  Why?  Because intrepid leadership scholars on CAPtalk say so?   We are just grown up cadets who failed to attend the finishing school that being a SM provides?  We can't have possibly learned outstanding leadership as cadets and have had it reinforced in the non-CAP cadet world?  A difference of opinion on anything means we just didn't learn?

I learned a big thing from CAP:

Selfless service.

So.  I say I disagree with you, and the notion of putting yourself in for a commendation.

Define your terms:  I'm talking about commendations and achievement awards, not pay you've earned, or bulltet statements so your company commander doesn't have to write one for you.

You have your own opinions, and that's fine, but you can't try to kill a debate with "you don't understand leadership."

After my limited experience on CAPtalk I ask:  Is this a forum for debate about CAP, or not?  Are the mods going to go around and squash opinions, and lock threads when things are said you don't want to hear?

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they didn't get something, or skipped the meeting they taught "leadership" in CAP.

I am not just a former cadet.  I am an adult, have been for a long time, and have been dealing with the real world for quite some time as well.   

Back to the topic of giving yourself commendations:

Use all tools available?  For self-aggrandizement?

That wouldn't float in my career world.  As one person posted, you'd be called a tool.

I don't appreciate that you insult our mods.  They don't do as you say.  They enforce the MCoC, which you have violated.

I also think it is quite unnecessary to say the things that you've said (under both accounts) of the OP.  I wouldn't do what this thread asks about personally, but whatever.  You are suggesting that because a couple people on one thread on CAPTalk would do this that the whole organization is a disaster now.  So fix it...or at least offer some suggestions to fix it.

[Eclipse]

As someone who has written, reviewed / signed, and / or up-channeled a fair amount of 120's, I have no issue with a member preparing either form itself
or a narrative supporting it, etc.   In some cases it is the only way to get all the details necessary to tell the "whole story"...

...however...

...the person who is being submitted for the decoration should never be the one signing as "requester", regardless of who actually typed the form, and
that includes for promotions and service awards.

The requester should always be "someone else", and the approver always the commander, especially at the unit level.

[jimmydeanno]

Sometimes, you gotta do whatcha gotta do. Sad, but true.

True on Active Duty, true at work, true in CAP.

Yes, can confirm this right now.  I and every other E6 & above had to write their own awards package for the deployment I'm on right now.  Only thing leadership did was tweak what we wrote.

There's a difference, though.  Your leadership said, "Hey, we think you're doing a bang up job.  We'd like to get you an award, write it up."

It seems that the OPs leadership isn't concerned about awarding the action in the first place, so it is follower initiated instead of leadership initiated. 

[lordmonar]

That's why you have Admin and Personnel Officers. 

[anonymous former c/col]

JC0004 "I also think it is quite unnecessary to say the things that you've said (under both accounts) of the OP."

Getting off topic seems unpopular, but since you threw this crazy accusation out there:

I only have one account on CAPtalk: anonymous former c/col

The 3digitspaatz person is not me -  I am not a 3 digit Spaatz.

Does it surprise you that 2 people would have the same opinion?  Don't accuse me of doing something that violates the code of conduct on this account.  I think it's very clear I believe in honor and integrity.

[PHall]

JC0004 "I also think it is quite unnecessary to say the things that you've said (under both accounts) of the OP."

Getting off topic seems unpopular, but since you threw this crazy accusation out there:

I only have one account on CAPtalk: anonymous former c/col

The 3digitspaatz person is not me -  I am not a 3 digit Spaatz.

Does it surprise you that 2 people would have the same opinion?  Don't accuse me of doing something that violates the code of conduct on this account.  I think it's very clear I believe in honor and integrity.

They don't go by opinions, they go by IP addresses. So unless you're sharing your computer...

[JC004]

JC0004 "I also think it is quite unnecessary to say the things that you've said (under both accounts) of the OP."

Getting off topic seems unpopular, but since you threw this crazy accusation out there:

I only have one account on CAPtalk: anonymous former c/col

The 3digitspaatz person is not me -  I am not a 3 digit Spaatz.

Does it surprise you that 2 people would have the same opinion?  Don't accuse me of doing something that violates the code of conduct on this account.  I think it's very clear I believe in honor and integrity.

We do not make crazy accusations.

If clear, it would only be through the words of an anonymous individual, not through actions or in any way be tied to the reputation of a known person.