Suspending quals of those in XX-000

[lordmonar]

Of course....and those people would not be transfered to the 000 squadron.

I got plenty of people who never show up for meetings...but do thing behind the scenes or once in a blue moon.  They also always answer the mail and do their required training.

I am talking about the true dead....only pays dues....members....and I got a few of those too.

We send them their letters, give them time to get their training done or 2b the.

I don't care about what national does.  National cannot make a squadron accept a member.

[RiverAux]

So, its better to kick such people out of the organization rather than moving them to a status where they still provide some level of financial support to CAP but otherwise don't require any time to manage (either in 000 or as a patron)?  Not sure how that is in our best interests.

Yes. 

Cut the dead wood.  If he wants to be a patron then let them make the effort.  I got better things to do getting the SUI off my back then begging non-players to do their required training.

It would actually take more effort on your part to 2b them than it would be to transfer them to patron status or send them to 000 so I'm not sure why you're so anxious to get rid of them. 

[SARDOC]

Also, I would think that if you  2b'd them they would have access to the appeals process making this a potentially ugly affair for someone who may have just missed a few meetings.  I would think that you'd want to hold 2B's for someone who has done something a little more wrong than just subjectively identified as "deadwood"  I would still send them to Patron and encourage and recruit them back into becoming a more productive member of the unit rather then terminate their membership forever.

[lordmonar]

If they wanted to appeal.....then they would do their required training and they would not be inactive.

My point is that we make an attempt to get them back active or we cut them out.

If they want to go patron....let them.....if not then we cut out the dead wood.

It is a whole lot easier to do a 2b on an inactive member then it is to try to keep them current with all the training requirements NHQ has imposed on us.

Back to the OP.......suspending OPS QAULS for inactive members and appointing someone at wing to manage all the dead weight in the 000 squadron is counter productive.

If individual squadrons don't mind manageing the inactives....then good on them.  At my squadron we simply contact the inactive members tell them what they have to do and when they have to do it by......or we send them their 2b.

[BillB]

The question is, can the Safety Briefing be done by a unit email? This would be the simplist way to get safety information to all members of a Squadron. Since most units send out meeting notices or other emails a Safety Briefing could be done and the Commander just check the box

[RADIOMAN015]

The question is, can the Safety Briefing be done by a unit email? This would be the simplist way to get safety information to all members of a Squadron. Since most units send out meeting notices or other emails a Safety Briefing could be done and the Commander just check the box

Basically it's "the method" that is causing the problems for units and not necessarily the information that is presented. At our squadron safety briefings as far as interactions go it varies greatly, sometimes they are like "deers in the headlights" and other times some may get too gabby and will need to be cut off to keep everyone on schedule.

I don't think the AF is requiring their personnel to sign onto a computer once a month for safety training but instead relies on just typical bulletin board type activities for general safety type items.  I know when we ran "Commander's Call" in the AF monthly, a safety topic was also provided at that time.   HOWEVER, if there's a specific maintenance or operational issue via a safety notification or change to a technical order, than of course the individuals concerned are going to be specifically briefed and there likely is some sort of documentation kept at the local level.   Additionally, in maintenance shop or aircraft specific safety training is likely documented in some sort of record system showing attendees.  Of course we are talking about paid personnel.
RM 

[ßτε]

If they wanted to appeal.....then they would do their required training and they would not be inactive.

My point is that we make an attempt to get them back active or we cut them out.

If they want to go patron....let them.....if not then we cut out the dead wood.

It is a whole lot easier to do a 2b on an inactive member then it is to try to keep them current with all the training requirements NHQ has imposed on us.

Back to the OP.......suspending OPS QAULS for inactive members and appointing someone at wing to manage all the dead weight in the 000 squadron is counter productive.

If individual squadrons don't mind manageing the inactives....then good on them.  At my squadron we simply contact the inactive members tell them what they have to do and when they have to do it by......or we send them their 2b.

I hope you are using the procedures outlined in CAPR 35-5.
For anything other than voluntary resignation for Senior Members, you will need to follow para. 6b.
If they appeal, follow Section D.
There is no guarantee that they will still do the training if they appeal.

It seems much simpler to use a CAPF 2a and transfer to Patron Status, and then if they decide to complete the training, to transfer them back to active status if desired.

 

[lordmonar]

Simpler is not always the right answer.

My point is and always has been.......you get into contact with your in active members....."Hey! Where have you been?  Listen, if you still want to be part of CAP you need to accomplish XYZ by 1 July.  If you don't want to be part of CAP or don't want to do the training we will terminate your membership".

It is not like the first thing they hear from us in over a year is "here's your 2b....have a nice day."

[peter rabbit]

Posted by: lordmonar
« on: Today at 12:29:31 PM »Insert Quote


Simpler is not always the right answer.

My point is and always has been.......you get into contact with your in active members....."Hey! Where have you been?  Listen, if you still want to be part of CAP you need to accomplish XYZ by 1 July.  If you don't want to be part of CAP or don't want to do the training we will terminate your membership".

It is not like the first thing they hear from us in over a year is "here's your 2b....have a nice day."

Transfer them to Patron status - many of them want to continue supporting CAP through dues payment. I sure don't want to turn down their money and any positive things they say to others.

[FW]

^ I agree.  Transferring a member who only wishes to pay dues every year to Patron Status seems to be the best idea.  It keeps us with a positive cash flow and, a member who is less likely to become "disgruntled". 

[SarDragon]

Question - what are the Patron dues?

IIRC, they only pay national dues, so the region and wing no longer receives the financial benefit.

[SARDOC]

Question - what are the Patron dues?

IIRC, they only pay national dues, so the region and wing no longer receives the financial benefit.

Patron dues are $35...and technically they become members of the National Patron Squadron...so I would think that Yes the Region and Wing would no longer receive the benefit.  But the member would be able to maintain their grade and not have to resubmit a fingerprint card if they decided to become active again.  I think it's a great option for people who for one reason or another become inactive but may consider it again when their work or life situation improves...instead of being permanently barred from reentry because some overzealous commander decided that your prior service isn't deserving of some consideration creating a disgruntled member.

[ßτε]

Patron dues are the same as active member dues. Members in the National Patron Squadron pay National Dues of $35. Patron members in other units pay the amount of dues set for active members in their wing.

[SarDragon]

OK. Thanks for the answer.

[BillB]

Interesting Sardoc and whoever's reply are completely opposite. One says Patrons pay National dues only, the other says National plus wing and region. One is correct answer, the other is mistaken. which is which?

[SarDragon]

It depends on who the patron belongs to. If to NHQ99?, then it's apparently only $35. If to a local unit, then full dues are paid. I know my dues were only the NHQ figure when I belonged to NHQ113.

[sarmed1]

There was a problem in PAWG years ago with a certain group who did not want to participate in a unit or any other activity except for 10 days in July....

3101.....

Would that really be a problem even for other wings....I can see a place for this as a wing level sort of squadron.  Some wings have re-occuring activites that require certain specialties or even more specific certain individuals; ie highly specialized instructors.  They may not have the time/ability to be part of or provide meaningful contribution to a local level unit; does that mean that the rest of the wing should suffer the loss of thier specialty... things like Water Survival instructors or NIMS instructors come to mind or a cadet programs personnel that just run/support wing leadership programs and encampments.  (or would you just make them an assistant to the assistant (etc) to one of the 20-1 approved postions. 

I know for example (sorry in PA.....) of some (very) specialized instructors that their home commander required attendance at weekly meetings (they didnt have a squadron job or even any duties for them there, but they had to show up.....) otherwise no partcipation at HMRS.  (the wing and the school suffer....)

mk

[FW]

Patron members pay all dues of the unit they are assigned.  They are financial supporters of the unit.  ref; CAPR 39-2

[Eclipse]

Question - what are the Patron dues?

IIRC, they only pay national dues, so the region and wing no longer receives the financial benefit.

Patron dues are $35...and technically they become members of the National Patron Squadron...

No, they do not. 

Patron membership does not change the unit of assignment, including the local unit's requirement to maintain their records as
long as that membership is "active".   This is one of the reasons 000 units have swollen, because in most cases units do not
have local dues which run through NHQ, mostly that is only wings, so the only advantage to a patron membership, to CAP,
is at the wing level, yet the onus on maintaining records is on the unit of assignment.

Ergo, if wing gets the only advantage of their membership, they go to 000 or 001 as patrons.

The trouble, as previously mentioned, starts when a wing's CI uncovers 100 empty shirts in 000 without the required documentation.
One can make the argument that personnel jackets on patron and inactive members are unnecessary, but that doesn't change the
regulation.

[SARDOC]

Question - what are the Patron dues?

IIRC, they only pay national dues, so the region and wing no longer receives the financial benefit.

Patron dues are $35...and technically they become members of the National Patron Squadron...

No, they do not. 

Patron membership does not change the unit of assignment, including the local unit's requirement to maintain their records as
long as that membership is "active".   This is one of the reasons 000 units have swollen, because in most cases units do not
have local dues which run through NHQ, mostly that is only wings, so the only advantage to a patron membership, to CAP,
is at the wing level, yet the onus on maintaining records is on the unit of assignment.

Ergo, if wing gets the only advantage of their membership, they go to 000 or 001 as patrons.

The trouble, as previously mentioned, starts when a wing's CI uncovers 100 empty shirts in 000 without the required documentation.
One can make the argument that personnel jackets on patron and inactive members are unnecessary, but that doesn't change the
regulation.

Well if they follow the process that is found in CAPR 39-2

3) Transfers to patron member status will be submitted to National Headquarters on CAPF 2a.  Section II, Duty
Assignment/Status Change, will be used, i.e., transfer from "Active Status" to "Patron Status." The original copy will be
forwarded directly to National Headquarters and the file copy placed in the members' personnel file.  Members desiring to
transfer back to active status will use the same procedure.   NOTE: Patrons transferring to active status who have not
previously completed the FBI screening procedures must include a FD Form 258 with the CAPF 2a. 

As well as the process published on their website


2.   Current CAP Member -  You can transfer your membership to the National Patron Squadron.  Simply have your commander submit a CAP Form 2A and transfer from your current squadron to charter number NHQ 996.  No extra dues are required and when your renewal is due, you will be charged $35.00.   Current members (not yet expired) who transfer into the National Patron Squadron retain their grade.

If you want to return to active status at a later date, you can transfer to a local squadron.  If you had no break in service, you will not be required to undergo an additional FBI screening provided you were already screened before transferring to patron status.

Being realistic though I know the process is actually practiced differently.  We have Patron members on our squadron books but I can't find anything in the regulations that actually state that as an option.  According to the Regs all Patron members are members of the National Patron Squadron and I can't find anything to the contrary.  I think the current process of leaving the member assigned to the original unit is a matter of administrative convenience and actually not in accordance with the established policies.