Helicopter Operations in CAP

[manfredvonrichthofen]

We have an MOU with Fish and Wildlife. we reguarly fly in helos's as part of CAP with them.

I am intrigued, please tell me more. Elaborate on what you do with them if you could.

They provide the platform for us to take pictures during a disaster.   A helo can get closer, and slower...hence better pics.
They are good at flying, we care good a taking pictures.

Very nice, I have thought about using helicopters for photography, but didn't know how that would go over with CAP.

[Flying Pig]

In Southern California my experience is that ground teams often set up and land sheriff and California Highway Patrol as well as fire helicopters.  The ground teams in Southern California are often the "first responders" and order up, set up and land the helicopters.  Many of the ground team leaders are fire or law enforcement officers and have training and experience in talking to and landing aircraft.  It seems to happen often out here.

In all my years in So Cal I dont think I ever saw it happen.  CAP in So Cal are not nor have they ever been first responder nor do they "order up" helicopters. The LE or Fire commanders respond, assess, and make the call for their own assets.  What county?

[SarDragon]

The only helicopter ops we have in CAP, is the preparation of LZ's and guiding the helio in.

Right, that is what I am wanting to know about, has anyone actually been involved with helicopter operations in CAP?
Were you easily accepted by the helicopter crew?
Did the pilot respond to your signals?
What methods have you used to mark the LZ? (VS17 pannels, smoke, other)
How was the experience overall?

We had a County Sheriff helo come in to pick up the body from a crash a while back, and it went well. We cleared the LZ and pointed it out. He responded well to the signals. No special marking - it was pretty obvious. Good experience.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The only helicopter ops we have in CAP, is the preparation of LZ's and guiding the helio in.

Right, that is what I am wanting to know about, has anyone actually been involved with helicopter operations in CAP?
Were you easily accepted by the helicopter crew?
Did the pilot respond to your signals?
What methods have you used to mark the LZ? (VS17 pannels, smoke, other)
How was the experience overall?

We had a County Sheriff helo come in to pick up the body from a crash a while back, and it went well. We cleared the LZ and pointed it out. He responded well to the signals. No special marking - it was pretty obvious. Good experience.

I have figured that would be a good use of helicopters, and I know it happens, but I haven't heard anything about CAP participating with it.
Very nice, I am glad it worked well for you, I hope if the time comes for us to work with a helicopter it goes half as well as yours was.

[SarDragon]

I wrangled H-34s and UH-1Ns in the Navy for three years. The cop thing was easy. These days I'm a little rusty on the signals, but a quick review of the pub would get me right back in the game.

[Ned]

cough airships cough


Maximum loiter time in search area, good downward visibility, good low speeds for effective grid coverage, stable instrument platform, low cost per hour of operation.

Imagine the marketing!

What's not to like?

[calguy]

In Southern California my experience is that ground teams often set up and land sheriff and California Highway Patrol as well as fire helicopters.  The ground teams in Southern California are often the "first responders" and order up, set up and land the helicopters.  Many of the ground team leaders are fire or law enforcement officers and have training and experience in talking to and landing aircraft.  It seems to happen often out here.

In all my years in So Cal I dont think I ever saw it happen.  CAP in So Cal are not nor have they ever been first responder nor do they "order up" helicopters. The LE or Fire commanders respond, assess, and make the call for their own assets.  What county?

I wouldn't count Fresno as being Southern California but...
Los Angeles, Riverside, San Bernadino and San Diego to name a few.
The teams in the field or the IC makes a call to the sheriff and requests a helicopter.  they ask where they want it and they are dispatched.  They give a common radio frequency and they show up.  Simple really!  No ground deputies required!

[bosshawk]

FP lived and worked as a Deputy in Socal for a lot of years before he went to Fresno, so he does know whereof he speaks.

[♠SARKID♠]

The only experience I've had was when we were working with Flight for Life at EAA - Fon Du Lac base.  Our MCC was setup two hangars away from theirs so we setup a bit of a playful weekend MOU with them.  As soon as we heard them on the radio or saw them pulling out of their hangar (indicating they were going out on an emergency) we'd go out and setup a perimeter for them around their hangar.  During EAA the pilots camping at Fon Du Lac don't operate with the highest cognitive ability and tend to throw safety and caution to the wind (walking on taxiways, running across the runway ((3 go arounds/ aborted takeoffs last year)), and walking right past Flight For Life as the prop is making revolutions).  We setup a safety zone for them around their hangar, ramp, and down their takeoff flight path.  At first I thought it was just gonna be something fun for the cadets to do when off shift but when I saw what kind of idiocy was going on it really was hazard mitigation.

They were kind enough to give us this nifty little LZ prep card.  Its pretty similar to what's in the ground team reference manual.



I've been looking at getting some PowerFlares to throw in a vehicle kit for both road safety and that unlikely to happen helicopter LZ setup.  Mind you, I have a safety products distributor five minutes from my house where they sell them for practically pocket change at an annual warehouse sale so we wouldn't be paying the $50+ they cost online.

[SarDragon]

Could you post a bigger size scan of that somewhere? Please?

[♠SARKID♠]

Sorry, Photobucket resized it.  Let me know if you have a problem downloading it, I've never used Filedropper.

Here's the combined
http://www.filedropper.com/heliops  (.jpg, 4.2Mgb)

Side one original/large scan
http://www.filedropper.com/0012 (.jpg, 5.7Mgb)

Side two original/large scan
http://www.filedropper.com/0013 (.jpg, 7.8Mgb)

Note: Future readers of this thread, the files are only kept on Filedropper for 30 days after this post.  If this thread is long dead and you want a copy of the pictures feel free to PM me.

[Flying Pig]

In Southern California my experience is that ground teams often set up and land sheriff and California Highway Patrol as well as fire helicopters.  The ground teams in Southern California are often the "first responders" and order up, set up and land the helicopters.  Many of the ground team leaders are fire or law enforcement officers and have training and experience in talking to and landing aircraft.  It seems to happen often out here.

In all my years in So Cal I dont think I ever saw it happen.  CAP in So Cal are not nor have they ever been first responder nor do they "order up" helicopters. The LE or Fire commanders respond, assess, and make the call for their own assets.  What county?

I wouldn't count Fresno as being Southern California but...
Los Angeles, Riverside, San Bernadino and San Diego to name a few.
The teams in the field or the IC makes a call to the sheriff and requests a helicopter.  they ask where they want it and they are dispatched.  They give a common radio frequency and they show up.  Simple really!  No ground deputies required!

And what do they show up to do?

Your right, Fresno is Central CA.  But when I was a Riverside County Sheriff's Deputy, again, your right, that was So Cal.

As a side note, a lot of us fly with NVGs.  You dont want a light source, especially vehicle headlights if the crew has them.  Parknig lights usually work pretty well.  Youll need to ask if they have NVGs.

[calguy]

Last year the Riverside County Sheriff as well as a USMC helo supported pulling two airplane crash victims from a mountain top that a CAP ground team located.    The team was the point of contact for the rescue helicopter and set up the landing zone for them.  Other times, the helicopters are used to bring deputies (law enforcement) to the crash site after a CAP ground team locates the crash.  Since law enforcement is ultimately responsible for the crash site, more often than not they would rather fly in than hike to a crash that would require a long and tough hike.  CAP ground teams seem to have a better working relationship with the sheriffs than elsewhere since getting a helicopter even in bad weather is not an issue.  Maybe most don't know but most crashes in Southern California that CAP search for are located by ground teams, not CAP aircrews.

[Flying Pig]

Yeah, I know all about the search you were on in Palm Springs.  Good job on that too by the way

[dogden]

A few years ago I was on a redcap and Texas DPS offered us an A-Star to use on the search (missing pilot was well connected in Austin). Mission staff ran it up the chain for approval and I was tasked to fly on the bird. DPS pilot took us out and we found a target within 20 min but we were not sure if it was the wreck site. We landed in a nearby pasture after notifying mission base and hiked to the site. I had grabbed my 24hr pack just in case and threw it in the helo prior to launch. We made the find, only time in my CAP career that I have been aircrew and GT on the same sortie.