Community College of the Air Force

[cap235629]

In order to promote a more educated CAP Officer Corps, how do you feel about the Air Force opening up the CCAF for CAP enrollee's? I wonder of such an endeavor would ever be considered...

Just thinking........

[NCRblues]

CCAF now = Air Force university.

and no way, ain't ganna happen...ever. They have enough problems getting us airman to use them let alone civilian volunteers. The paperwork hurdle to jump through for them is ranked like #3 worst in the world so....

Kinda neat to think about but, i don't think it will ever go down....

[a2capt]

Which makes me wonder why they keep sending us the catalogs if we as an organization can't use them.

OTOH, if they are sending it incase there are some within us that can, I would have to think those who could would be getting the information via more direct, and effective channels than mailing to CAP units.  Thats like throwing pizza dough up to see if it sticks.

[James Shaw]

I would enjoy seeing that happen. I havent looked in a long time but I am not sure which Air Force courses we can still take other than SOS, ACSC, AWC.

[flyboy53]

Why not! What a membership benefit that would be.

Personally, I think that would be cool, giving CAP members an opportunity to earn a associates degree through CCAF. It would be a lot of work for an non-active duty member. However, you are allowed to apply college credit achieved elsewhere.

If you've ever taken any AFLDI courses, however, you might be surprised what's on record if you enroll and order a transcript from CCAF.

Otherwise, there is another avenue. If you have taken things like SOS, keep in mind that you can take the diploma to a college registrar and pursue college credit as authorized by the American Council on Education.

[BillB]

In the 70's I took various courses through ECI. These included Weather Specialist, Dats processing and about 10 other courses. At the time CCAF was for enlisted USAF AD members only, and the courses I took could not be applied to a CCAF transcript. They were however included on an ECI transcript that my local Community Collage would accept. In the 90's a chgange was made to CAP Regs that allowed only enrollment in courses that applied to CAP duties and activities. Thus the number of courses available to CAP members dropped. It may be possible to enroll in the various courses listed in the bcatalog, but I haven't heard of anyone trying.

[SARDOC]

I would enjoy seeing that happen. I havent looked in a long time but I am not sure which Air Force courses we can still take other than SOS, ACSC, AWC.

CAP Emergency Services officer course
CAP Public affairs officer course

Among other CAP specific classes

[James Shaw]

CAP Emergency Services officer course
CAP Public affairs officer course

I may try and take a look at another time. I have taken those and appreciate the information. I am in the middle of having to get another BS degree to take a certification test for future work.

[jimmydeanno]

My understanding is that CCAF isn't really a school in the sense we think it is.  My wife's first degree was an Associates from CCAF.  Essentially, they just took her BMT, Tech School, Upgrade courses, OJT, etc and converted them to College Credits.  Then, for the English classes, etc she had to take those courses from an actual college and transfer the credits.  When combined, she ended up with a CCAF Degree.

I can't say that it would be any benefit to CAP members because there isn't any conversion happening.  You'd probably be better off just registering for classes with an inexpensive school like American Military University or American Public University ($250/credit hour for undergrads + free books for undergrads).

[lordmonar]

In order to promote a more educated CAP Officer Corps, how do you feel about the Air Force opening up the CCAF for CAP enrollee's? I wonder of such an endeavor would ever be considered...

Just thinking........

The only thing that CCAF gets you that your local Community College does not ....is credit for technical school.  CAP aint got not technical schools so you would still be sitting there needing a bunch of college courses.

[flyboy53]

That's why I brought up the issue of the American Council on Education. Each college registrar has this series of catalogs. You can present the certificate of completion of various military or AFLDI courses and the registrar can evaluate it for college credit.

Not that this example directly applies to CAP, but I had a friend in college who was pursuing an education degree in a mid-life career change after 20 years as a KC-135 pilot. He entered the Air Force as an aviation cadet without a degree. Anyway, he took all of the diplomas from the various schools he attended to the registrar and ended up with 21/2 years of college credit in place just from the military schools.

Aside from my other military schools and skill-level upgrade stuff, graduation from the Defense Information School resulted in 12 semester hours of college credit that was also granted as a non-resident from Ball State University, and one managetment training program that I completed while TDY to Lowry AFB resulted in college credit through Regis University as a non-resident student.

Sooo, if not CCAF, I wonder if NHQ ever considered partnering with a community college to offer non-resident degrees as a potential opportunity to the membership. The AE people have already gone that far with the AEX program, where it is now college-accredited.

Wouldn't that be an interesting membership benefit?

[jimmydeanno]

That's why I brought up the issue of the American Council on Education. Each college registrar has this series of catalogs. You can present the certificate of completion of various military or AFLDI courses and the registrar can evaluate it for college credit.

Not that this example directly applies to CAP, but I had a friend in college who was pursuing an education degree in a mid-life career change after 20 years as a KC-135 pilot. He entered the Air Force as an aviation cadet without a degree. Anyway, he took all of the diplomas from the various schools he attended to the registrar and ended up with 21/2 years of college credit in place just from the military schools.

Aside from my other military schools and skill-level upgrade stuff, graduation from the Defense Information School resulted in 12 semester hours of college credit that was also granted as a non-resident from Ball State University, and one managetment training program that I completed while TDY to Lowry AFB resulted in college credit through Regis University as a non-resident student.

Sooo, if not CCAF, I wonder if NHQ ever considered partnering with a community college to offer non-resident degrees as a potential opportunity to the membership. The AE people have already gone that far with the AEX program, where it is now college-accredited.

Wouldn't that be an interesting membership benefit?

The difference is that our courses aren't accredited.  We have no evaluation tools, our instructors aren't necessarily certified to teach, no way to ensure that the curriculum is actually taught, etc.  I'd actually relate our SLS, CLC, TLC, etc more to professional development workshops as opposed to courses/schools.  Even our technical training is mostly self-paced/self-learned. 

You can't create programs that earn college credit through self-certification, unfortunately.

[flyboy53]

That's why I brought up the issue of the American Council on Education. Each college registrar has this series of catalogs. You can present the certificate of completion of various military or AFLDI courses and the registrar can evaluate it for college credit.

Not that this example directly applies to CAP, but I had a friend in college who was pursuing an education degree in a mid-life career change after 20 years as a KC-135 pilot. He entered the Air Force as an aviation cadet without a degree. Anyway, he took all of the diplomas from the various schools he attended to the registrar and ended up with 21/2 years of college credit in place just from the military schools.

Aside from my other military schools and skill-level upgrade stuff, graduation from the Defense Information School resulted in 12 semester hours of college credit that was also granted as a non-resident from Ball State University, and one managetment training program that I completed while TDY to Lowry AFB resulted in college credit through Regis University as a non-resident student.

Sooo, if not CCAF, I wonder if NHQ ever considered partnering with a community college to offer non-resident degrees as a potential opportunity to the membership. The AE people have already gone that far with the AEX program, where it is now college-accredited.

Wouldn't that be an interesting membership benefit?

The difference is that our courses aren't accredited.  We have no evaluation tools, our instructors aren't necessarily certified to teach, no way to ensure that the curriculum is actually taught, etc.  I'd actually relate our SLS, CLC, TLC, etc more to professional development workshops as opposed to courses/schools.  Even our technical training is mostly self-paced/self-learned. 

You can't create programs that earn college credit through self-certification, unfortunately.

So then, why doesn't NHQ pursue accreditation for the PD courses and for things like NESA? It's not that hard to take a course curriculum to a college to explore credit or to enter into a an agreement to provide it. Afterall, most of our courses do have some sort of evaluation tool to measure success or failure. It's already applied to the AEX Program.

If so, you would have one step toward using the training for college credit. Then, to take it one step futher, if the training was accredited, there could be an agreement with a college to apply the suff for college credit as non-resident students. In the end, it doesn't matter whether it's a part of a specific degree program, it's college credit that can be applied at the member's choice.

The whole point would be that the member then derives an additional benefit to the training beyond a requirement that is essentially related to promotion. Wouldn't that be a great membership benefit? Wouldn't that encourage completion of the PD requirements?

Sounds like an interesting NSC topic to be explored, doesn't it?

[lordmonar]

bottom line.....money.

Getting accreditation would require that our instructors get certified that all our course work gets vetted by the accreditation agency.

Too much work....too much cost for little pay back.

[PA Guy]

Plus the college would charge CAP to use their name and maintain the records.  I seem to remember that yrs ago Troy State offered college credit for NSC.

[DBlair]

That's why I brought up the issue of the American Council on Education. Each college registrar has this series of catalogs. You can present the certificate of completion of various military or AFLDI courses and the registrar can evaluate it for college credit.

Not that this example directly applies to CAP, but I had a friend in college who was pursuing an education degree in a mid-life career change after 20 years as a KC-135 pilot. He entered the Air Force as an aviation cadet without a degree. Anyway, he took all of the diplomas from the various schools he attended to the registrar and ended up with 21/2 years of college credit in place just from the military schools.

Aside from my other military schools and skill-level upgrade stuff, graduation from the Defense Information School resulted in 12 semester hours of college credit that was also granted as a non-resident from Ball State University, and one managetment training program that I completed while TDY to Lowry AFB resulted in college credit through Regis University as a non-resident student.

Sooo, if not CCAF, I wonder if NHQ ever considered partnering with a community college to offer non-resident degrees as a potential opportunity to the membership. The AE people have already gone that far with the AEX program, where it is now college-accredited.

Wouldn't that be an interesting membership benefit?

The difference is that our courses aren't accredited.  We have no evaluation tools, our instructors aren't necessarily certified to teach, no way to ensure that the curriculum is actually taught, etc.  I'd actually relate our SLS, CLC, TLC, etc more to professional development workshops as opposed to courses/schools.  Even our technical training is mostly self-paced/self-learned. 

You can't create programs that earn college credit through self-certification, unfortunately.

So then, why doesn't NHQ pursue accreditation for the PD courses and for things like NESA? It's not that hard to take a course curriculum to a college to explore credit or to enter into a an agreement to provide it. Afterall, most of our courses do have some sort of evaluation tool to measure success or failure. It's already applied to the AEX Program.

If so, you would have one step toward using the training for college credit. Then, to take it one step futher, if the training was accredited, there could be an agreement with a college to apply the suff for college credit as non-resident students. In the end, it doesn't matter whether it's a part of a specific degree program, it's college credit that can be applied at the member's choice.

The whole point would be that the member then derives an additional benefit to the training beyond a requirement that is essentially related to promotion. Wouldn't that be a great membership benefit? Wouldn't that encourage completion of the PD requirements?

Sounds like an interesting NSC topic to be explored, doesn't it?

In order to get college credit, essentially all NHQ has to do is send ACE the course details/materials and they evaluate whether it qualifies for college credit and how many credits in which subject area. Soooooooooo many other organizations already do this, I'm kind of surprised that CAP is so far behind the curve with this.

As long as ACE will certify the course for college credits, most colleges will accept it.

[flyboy53]

Thanx for validating what I was trying to explain.

These days when so many colleges are offering degree programs on-line, I can't think of a better opportunity to validate and encourage completion of our training than to seek college credit/accrediation for it.

It might even cause people to strive to achieve more training if they know it translates to college credit.