Should uniform inspections be a required part of senior member meetings?

[JohnKachenmeister]

I was reading something, and I think it may have actually been in the Marine Corps uniform reg, that if a former soldier has a verified combat badge, then they may wear the Combat Action Ribbon on the Marine Corps uniform. So the Marines do recognize a persons combat experience, but they do it their own way.

Additionally, it seems like the Navy/Marine Corps treats the CAR like an Army combat patch. The patch just means you were there, not necessarily shot at.

So where does that leave the Marine with a CAR? Possibly out in the cold, but maybe not. Every Marine I've ever known had on ribbons on every service uniform they wore. Even the short sleeve shirts without tie. I imagine that putting ribbons on even that uniform is almost instinctive. But a ribbon is far less noticeable(harder to pick out of a crowd) than any badge.

Digressing, we allow pretty much any military decoration to be worn. Why not do the same for badges?

Just FYI, the Combat Action Ribbon is allowed for wear in CAP (#30 on Table 5-3 in  39-1).

That's the point I was trying to make, Dave.  In the Navy and Marines, if you are in combat, you get a ribbon.  In the Army, one gets any one of three badges, The Combat Infantry Badge (Grunts) The Combat Medical Badge (Docs) or the Combat Action Badge (Everybody else.)  Only two of the three are authorized on the CAP uniform at this time.  I think that will be changed shortly, and at the risk of being accused by the Uniform Nazis of shaking the very structure of CAP to the ground, I don't consider wearing the CAB to be a violation worthy of my time to correct.

[MIKE]

"Combat Patch" is kind of a misnomer... I believe AR 670-1 calls it SSI-FWTS (Shoulder Sleeve Insignia-Former Wartime Service).

[Hawk200]

"Combat Patch" is kind of a misnomer... I believe AR 670-1 calls it SSI-FWTS (Shoulder Sleeve Insignia-Former Wartime Service).

Yeah, that's the official terminology. Everybody I know in the Army calls it that, though. I called it a "Former Wartime Service patch" once, and I got some of the wierdest looks. They honeslty had no idea what I was talking about.

At times I wonder how many people actually read their uniform regs.

[ZigZag911]

There are so many qualification badges in the various services, perhaps some limitation is needed....however, I do think that those badges and/or devices that represent combat service ought to be permitted on the CAP uniform....if this requires some revision to the regs to make it legitimate, I feel (speaking as one who has not sered in the military) that those among us who have put themselves at risk for our defense ought to be recognized, and also recognizable.

So if there are 53 badges from the Air Force that can be worn on the CAP uniform, why should we limit it for other services that have far fewer badges available? Most of the authorized AF badges are earned initially when one graduates from technical training. Far easier when compared to what it takes some of the other branches to get theirs.

Perhaps I misunderstood....I thought the current situation is that NO 'other service' badges are permitted on CAP uniform, in keeping with AF regs.

If that is the case, I believe combat service badges/insignia from Army, marines, Nave & CG should be authorized (using the correct process) for CAP uniform.

If I was mistaken, then certainly I have no objection to other qualification badges from the various services.

[Hammer]

Thanks, Hawk2000.  There's a whole crap-load of badges not mentioned there, though.

Personally, I think that all earned badges (not to include marksmanship badges), should be permitted for wear. There is a statement in 39-1 that could cover this, it would require a simple amendement to it. Just make the statement: "CAP members may wear US military badges earned through qualification and awarded by competent authority for service performed in any branch of the Armed Forces of the United States or its allies. "

I agree 100 % !!!  SOmeone needs to write a letter requesting a change to NHQ.

[Hammer]

There are so many qualification badges in the various services, perhaps some limitation is needed....however, I do think that those badges and/or devices that represent combat service ought to be permitted on the CAP uniform....if this requires some revision to the regs to make it legitimate, I feel (speaking as one who has not sered in the military) that those among us who have put themselves at risk for our defense ought to be recognized, and also recognizable.

I wouldn't limit like that. The reason being is that every badge that can be worn on the AF uniform may be worn on the CAP uniform. That's a pretty good load of badges. Out of 55 badges, only two Air Force badges aren't permitted. I've attached the chart from 36-2903.

At present, the Air Force does not have any kind of combat service badge. The Army has three basic combat badges.  The Navy, one or two (I don't even know what they are, someone Navy is going to have to answer this one).  I don't believe the Marine Corps has any, nor the Coast Guard. And obviously, the NOAA and PHS don't need one.

So if there are 53 badges from the Air Force that can be worn on the CAP uniform, why should we limit it for other services that have far fewer badges available? Most of the authorized AF badges are earned initially when one graduates from technical training. Far easier when compared to what it takes some of the other branches to get theirs.

Hawk:

The Navy issues a "Submarine Combat Patrol" and "Combat Aircrew" badge, which is work on the Navy uniform under the ribbon rack.  Otherwise, both the Navy and Marine Corps award a "Combat Action Ribbon" to those in actual combat.

That's why its unfair to say that ALL Navy/Marine folks who were in combat can wear the CA Ribbon, but only the Army folks who were infantry or medics can wear a device signifying exposure to hostile fire.

What are the requirements for the Submarine Combat Patrol, and the Combat Aircrew Badge?  I tried google, but no result.  Is the Combat Aircrew Badge worn by pilots also?

[AlphaSigOU]

What are the requirements for the Submarine Combat Patrol, and the Combat Aircrew Badge?  I tried google, but no result.  Is the Combat Aircrew Badge worn by pilots also?

Combat patrol aboard a fast attack or SSBN 'boomer' sub. Not sure if there are distinctive badges for the attack guys, but the boomers get to add stars to their badge for each SSBN patrol.

[MIKE]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badges_of_the_United_States_Navy

[JohnKachenmeister]

What are the requirements for the Submarine Combat Patrol, and the Combat Aircrew Badge?  I tried google, but no result.  Is the Combat Aircrew Badge worn by pilots also?

Combat patrol aboard a fast attack or SSBN 'boomer' sub. Not sure if there are distinctive badges for the attack guys, but the boomers get to add stars to their badge for each SSBN patrol.

Chuck:

I think that's the SSBN Deterrent Badge.  The Combat Patrol Badge is from back in WWII and has been continued up through at least Vietnam, which is the last time I wore a sailor suit.

[JohnKachenmeister]

There are so many qualification badges in the various services, perhaps some limitation is needed....however, I do think that those badges and/or devices that represent combat service ought to be permitted on the CAP uniform....if this requires some revision to the regs to make it legitimate, I feel (speaking as one who has not sered in the military) that those among us who have put themselves at risk for our defense ought to be recognized, and also recognizable.

I wouldn't limit like that. The reason being is that every badge that can be worn on the AF uniform may be worn on the CAP uniform. That's a pretty good load of badges. Out of 55 badges, only two Air Force badges aren't permitted. I've attached the chart from 36-2903.

At present, the Air Force does not have any kind of combat service badge. The Army has three basic combat badges.  The Navy, one or two (I don't even know what they are, someone Navy is going to have to answer this one).  I don't believe the Marine Corps has any, nor the Coast Guard. And obviously, the NOAA and PHS don't need one.

So if there are 53 badges from the Air Force that can be worn on the CAP uniform, why should we limit it for other services that have far fewer badges available? Most of the authorized AF badges are earned initially when one graduates from technical training. Far easier when compared to what it takes some of the other branches to get theirs.

Hawk:

The Navy issues a "Submarine Combat Patrol" and "Combat Aircrew" badge, which is work on the Navy uniform under the ribbon rack.  Otherwise, both the Navy and Marine Corps award a "Combat Action Ribbon" to those in actual combat.

That's why its unfair to say that ALL Navy/Marine folks who were in combat can wear the CA Ribbon, but only the Army folks who were infantry or medics can wear a device signifying exposure to hostile fire.

What are the requirements for the Submarine Combat Patrol, and the Combat Aircrew Badge?  I tried google, but no result.  Is the Combat Aircrew Badge worn by pilots also?

IIRC, the Submarine Combat Patrol Badge is awarded fro a wartime patrol in a sub.  A star is added for each additional patrol.  Same with the Combat Aircrew Badge.  I THINK the Combat Aircrew Badge is only for enlisted.  In any case, both are "Secondary" awards.  You still wear the wings and/or dolphins.