Ground Team badges: When awarded?

[Hawk200]

Just had a discussion at lunch with a newer senior concerning Ground Team badge requirements.

The question: Can (or should) the GTM badge be awarded when an individual gets GTM3? Or should it be awarded once the member has completed GTM1?

Curious as to the overall view here.

[lordmonar]

GTM3

4. Requirements for Award of the Ground Team Badges:
a. Basic Ground Team Badge:
1) Be qualified as a CAP ground team member in accordance with the CAP 60-series regulations or
2) Graduate from the CAP National Ground Search and Rescue School Basic Course or equivalent program as determined by NHQ CAP/DO and certified by the school/activity director. Each wing and region is encouraged to host ground team schools with the intent of certifying their members. All schools must ensure trainees meet the current regulatory requirements for qualification in the specialty before the rating is awarded.

[Hawk200]

GTM3

4. Requirements for Award of the Ground Team Badges:
a. Basic Ground Team Badge:
1) Be qualified as a CAP ground team member in accordance with the CAP 60-series regulations or
2) Graduate from the CAP National Ground Search and Rescue School Basic Course or equivalent program as determined by NHQ CAP/DO and certified by the school/activity director. Each wing and region is encouraged to host ground team schools with the intent of certifying their members. All schools must ensure trainees meet the current regulatory requirements for qualification in the specialty before the rating is awarded.

That I know, but it doesn't answer the question. Can or should the badge be awarded to a GTM3?

Maybe a better way to ask: Is a GTM3 considered a qualified ground team member?

[jimmydeanno]

GTM3

4. Requirements for Award of the Ground Team Badges:
a. Basic Ground Team Badge:
1) Be qualified as a CAP ground team member in accordance with the CAP 60-series regulations or
2) Graduate from the CAP National Ground Search and Rescue School Basic Course or equivalent program as determined by NHQ CAP/DO and certified by the school/activity director. Each wing and region is encouraged to host ground team schools with the intent of certifying their members. All schools must ensure trainees meet the current regulatory requirements for qualification in the specialty before the rating is awarded.

That I know, but it doesn't answer the question. Can or should the badge be awarded to a GTM3?

Maybe a better way to ask: Is a GTM3 considered a qualified ground team member?

Yes.  If a "Ground Team Member" Level 3 isn't a Ground Team Member, who would be?

[Eclipse]

Yes - the badge is awarded (or basically self-awards) upon either completion of the GT3 rating, or upon successful completion of the applicable NESA curriculum.

The Senior Award (star) is for GTL.

The Master Award (star+laurel wreath) is for GBD.

There are no badges for GT2 or 1.

[lordmonar]

Yes - the badge is awarded (or basically self-awards) upon either completion of the GT3 rating, or upon successful completion of the applicable NESA curriculum.

The Senior Award (star) is for GTL. (or completion of NESA AGSAR Course)

The Master Award (star+laurel wreath) is for GBD.

There are no badges for GT2 or 1.

BOLD added. 

[N Harmon]

4. Requirements for Award of the Ground Team Badges:
   a. Basic Ground Team Badge:
      1) Be qualified as a CAP ground team member in accordance with the CAP 60-series regulations or
      2) Graduate from the CAP National Ground Search and Rescue School Basic Course or equivalent program as determined by NHQ CAP/DO and certified by the school/activity director. Each wing and region is encouraged to host ground team schools with the intent of certifying their members. All schools must ensure trainees meet the current regulatory requirements for qualification in the specialty before the rating is awarded.
   b. Senior Ground Team Badge:
      1) Be qualified as a CAP ground team leader in accordance with the CAP 60-series regulations or
      2) Graduate from the CAP National Ground Search And Rescue School Advanced Course or equivalent program as determined by NHQ CAP/DO and certified by the school/activity director. Each wing and region is encouraged to host ground team schools with the intent of certifying their members. All schools must ensure trainees meet the current regulatory requirements for qualification in the specialty before the rating is awarded.
   c. Master Ground Team Badge. Be qualified as a CAP ground branch director in accordance with the CAP 60-series regulations.

Like Maj Harris said, the senior Ground Team Badge can be awarded to graduates of NESA's advanced GSAR course (or equivilant). I had to talk down a senior member from busting a cadet over a senior ground team badge because he knew the cadet could not be a GTL (too young). I, however, knew the cadet attended NESA advanced GSAR.

[MichaelAGates]

CAP National Ground Search and Rescue School Basic Course or equivalent program as determined by NHQ CAP/DO

Anyone know of any specific programs that have been determined to be equivalent besides NESA courses?

[Eclipse]

CAP National Ground Search and Rescue School Basic Course or equivalent program as determined by NHQ CAP/DO

Anyone know of any specific programs that have been determined to be equivalent besides NESA courses?

None - its work the tasks and the SQTRS at home squadron (etc.) or go to NESA.  HMRS doesn't even award the GT badges except as coincidental completion of the various tasks.

[N Harmon]

CAP National Ground Search and Rescue School Basic Course or equivalent program as determined by NHQ CAP/DO

Anyone know of any specific programs that have been determined to be equivalent besides NESA courses?

I seem to recall someone saying Alabama Wing's FTX was equivalent to NESA courses, but I could not say for sure.

[Eclipse]

CAP National Ground Search and Rescue School Basic Course or equivalent program as determined by NHQ CAP/DO

Anyone know of any specific programs that have been determined to be equivalent besides NESA courses?

I seem to recall someone saying Alabama Wing's FTX was equivalent to NESA courses, but I could not say for sure.

It could even be using the exact same curriculum, but its not approved as such.

[SarDragon]

OK, here's a follow-on Q.

Sign-offs in eServices confer the various designations (MO, MP, etc), but what is the authority to wear the hardware? It used to be the 2a, but they took all that stuff off a few years ago.

[CFI_Ed]

OK, here's a follow-on Q.

Sign-offs in eServices confer the various designations (MO, MP, etc), but what is the authority to wear the hardware? It used to be the 2a, but they took all that stuff off a few years ago.

Approvals are also in eServices for the badges.

[ßτε]

OK, here's a follow-on Q.

Sign-offs in eServices confer the various designations (MO, MP, etc), but what is the authority to wear the hardware? It used to be the 2a, but they took all that stuff off a few years ago.

Go to OpsQual -> Emergency Services -> ES awards and request the appropriate award. It will then go up the chain for approval.

[SarDragon]

Thank you for the confirmation. That's what I thought, but wanted to verify. 

[sarmed1]

None - its work the tasks and the SQTRS at home squadron (etc.) or go to NESA

Incorect. TXWG GSARSS basic and advanced are considered equivilent and authorized to award the respective badges upon school completion. (I have the authoriztion letter at home somewhere in non digital format)

mk

[Eclipse]

None - its work the tasks and the SQTRS at home squadron (etc.) or go to NESA

Incorect. TXWG GSARSS basic and advanced are considered equivilent and authorized to award the respective badges upon school completion. (I have the authoriztion letter at home somewhere in non digital format)

mk

It may be recognized within the wing, but not nationally or it would be in 39-3.  NESA instructors have national eServices privileges and their own separate charter. (NHQ-007).

[sarmed1]

The authorization letter came from National...I'll search for it and scan/upload it when I get home.

mk

[Eclipse]

The authorization letter came from National...I'll search for it and scan/upload it when I get home.

mk

It would probably have needed to, since that would require a supplement to 60-x for the wing, however that doesn't mean its recognized
out of the wing. 

But whether that school is recognized outside of the Wing is a different story. 35-6 encourages wings and regions to run schools for this purpose but is typically vague on that point.  The only one spelled out specifically is NESA.

[lordmonar]

The authorization letter came from National...I'll search for it and scan/upload it when I get home.

mk

It would probably have needed to, since that would require a supplement to 60-x for the wing, however that doesn't mean its recognized
out of the wing. 

But whether that school is recognized outside of the Wing is a different story. 35-6 encourages wings and regions to run schools for this purpose but is typically vague on that point.  The only one spelled out specifically is NESA.

Yes....Eclipse.....35-6 spells it out specifically....NESA and any acitivity approved by NHQ/DO.....with like maybe a letter of authorisation!

RTFM!

[davidsinn]

The authorization letter came from National...I'll search for it and scan/upload it when I get home.

mk

It would probably have needed to, since that would require a supplement to 60-x for the wing, however that doesn't mean its recognized
out of the wing. 

But whether that school is recognized outside of the Wing is a different story. 35-6 encourages wings and regions to run schools for this purpose but is typically vague on that point.  The only one spelled out specifically is NESA.

Yes....Eclipse.....35-6 spells it out specifically....NESA and any acitivity approved by NHQ/DO.....with like maybe a letter of authorisation!

RTFM!

That letter is worthless outside of that wing. Something like that needs to be codified in some manner. I wouldn't have a problem with it being in an amendment separate from the reg so it can be kept up to date outside of the regular reg cycle.

[lordmonar]

Why would you need the letter outside the wing?  The wing hold the course, the wing gets the authorisation to award the senior GTM badge for holding the course.  The wing awards the badge to their graduates.

Why would I in NVWG care about it one way or the other?  Little Jonny transfers in to my unit with his Senior GTM badge I don't bling twice.  I may ask him about it....He says "It it from the TXWG AGSAR school", he had the approprate paperwork in his records.....okay...I'm good.

As for adding it to a supplement.....what if it was a one time school, not something recurring?  No need to go the supplement route for a one time good deal.

[Stonewall]

Something I always like to add to these discussions about "when/how to award GTM/EMT type badges" is...

DO IT IN THE FIELD!

Here is an older pic of me promoting a cadet to C/2d Lt (Mitchell) during our annual 3-day Winter Exercise. 


If you have a cadet/senior who is about to earn their GTM/EMT badge, hold off until their in the field and finish up their final tasks and "pin them" during a field ceremony.  It makes a lasting impression, they are usually caught by surprise and it's cool.

[lordmonar]

+1....but bring a camera!

[Eclipse]

Why would you need the letter outside the wing?  The wing hold the course, the wing gets the authorisation to award the senior GTM badge for holding the course.  The wing awards the badge to their graduates.

Why would I in NVWG care about it one way or the other?  Little Jonny transfers in to my unit with his Senior GTM badge I don't bling twice.  I may ask him about it....He says "It it from the TXWG AGSAR school", he had the approprate paperwork in his records.....okay...I'm good.

As for adding it to a supplement.....what if it was a one time school, not something recurring?  No need to go the supplement route for a one time good deal.

Internal to the Wing they can do whatever they want.  Since they hold the keys to task sign-offs anyway, I don't think you'd even need a supplement.

The issue is anyone from outside the state participating, because absent NHQ authorization and/or an NHQ charter that gives them the
ability to sign off anyone in CAP, the local commander(s) are free to say "I have no idea what that school is, who the instructors were, or what you did.  No pin for you!" 

[Hawk200]

The issue is anyone from outside the state participating, because absent NHQ authorization and/or an NHQ charter that gives them the ability to sign off anyone in CAP, the local commander(s) are free to say "I have no idea what that school is, who the instructors were, or what you did.  No pin for you!"

I may not do the same thing, but I can see the reasoning, and would consider it valid if a commander chose to take the stance.

If someone showed up from another wing, I'd want to see the paperwork, and a signed off SQTR. Don't think it's too much to ask. If someone did the tasks, they should be signed off an it.

[Parsifal]

Something I always like to add to these discussions about "when/how to award GTM/EMT type badges" is...

DO IT IN THE FIELD!

If you have a cadet/senior who is about to earn their GTM/EMT badge, hold off until their in the field and finish up their final tasks and "pin them" during a field ceremony.  It makes a lasting impression, they are usually caught by surprise and it's cool.

A great idea. Just like jump school.....except for the "blood wings."

[jimmydeanno]

...DO IT IN THE FIELD...

One of the last SAREXs I was GTL for had 5 cadet from my unit on it (we work together during the meetings, we work together at SAREXs) had a missing person search that would require a GT to hike up a (slightly over) 4000' mountain with 360 degree views and nothing man made in sight and stay over night.

The next morning, the cadets finished their final tasks on the top of the mountain after quite a significant hike, 40 degree night with shelter material (not tents), etc.  I had brought GT badges with me in my pack as well as a pair of C/CMSgt insignia.  I promoted (legitimately) one of our cadets to C/CMSgt and awarded the GT badges as the sun came up and just broke over the mountain ridge to the east.

and so ushers in, a new day.

[lordmonar]

The issue is anyone from outside the state participating, because absent NHQ authorization and/or an NHQ charter that gives them the
ability to sign off anyone in CAP, the local commander(s) are free to say "I have no idea what that school is, who the instructors were, or what you did.  No pin for you!"

?? We are discussing what exactly?

TXWG has a AGSAR school....someone said that he has a copy of the letter from NHQ (I assume DO) that says it is equivilant to NESA.  That is the end of the story.  No need for a suplement, no need for anything else.  Some cadet goes to the AGSAR school gets his (I assume) GTM1 signed off and gets his Senior GT badge.

Anyone from out of state would have to have his squadron and wing CC approval....because you are all following proper CAP procerdures for attendance of out of state functions.  The local commander already know that Little Timmy was going to TXWG for the AGSAR school.  If not there are a lot bigger issues then Little Timmy wear a Star over his GT badge.

If little Timmy transfers over to my unit...as I said I may ask....but I won't push the issue.  If Little Timmy says the TXWG AGSAR school said to wear it....I'll let him wear it. 

[Eclipse]

?? We are discussing what exactly?

TXWG has a AGSAR school....someone said that he has a copy of the letter from NHQ (I assume DO) that says it is equivilant to NESA.  That is the end of the story.  No need for a suplement, no need for anything else.  Some cadet goes to the AGSAR school gets his (I assume) GTM1 signed off and gets his Senior GT badge.

Anyone from out of state would have to have his squadron and wing CC approval....because you are all following proper CAP procerdures for attendance of out of state functions.  The local commander already know that Little Timmy was going to TXWG for the AGSAR school.  If not there are a lot bigger issues then Little Timmy wear a Star over his GT badge.

A squadron and wing CC will approve of participation, but that doesn't mean they get blanket approval of the badge just for showing up.  Again, a cadet from TXWG goes there, no issue, no question, the letter probably wasn't even necessary.  A cadet from any other wing is an issue both from a practical standpoint and as to whether the school was approved for anyone outside TXWG.  That's the discussion.  If it were "that easy" HMRS would have gotten the same approval years ago.

If little Timmy transfers over to my unit...as I said I may ask....but I won't push the issue.  If Little Timmy says the TXWG AGSAR school said to wear it....I'll let him wear it.

No issue there.

[lordmonar]

Well here is the issue.

HRMS does not care about the GT badge....they are all about the ranger tab.  Why worry about getting a star on your GT badge when you got four different ranger tabs between them?

Secondly....the real issue is that just like NESA you don't get the badge for just showing up.  In basic GSAR school if you fail to complete the GTM-3 tasks you don't graduate...(this is next to impossible so you don't see it that often).  The issue is that the AGSAR school awards the badge for completeing what is actually only GTM1....not GTL that the rest of the world has to do.

Again not something HMRS cares on whit about...because at HMRS you will be getting your First Class Super Ranger tab....who cares about getting your star.....you can get that when you turn 18.

So the HMRS comparison is not a player.

Bottom line.  If the activity director gets the authorisation from NHQ/DO that is it.  Done deal.  The activity director gets to approve whether an individual has passed or not and awards the badge.....unit commander has no say in it!

Unit commander can only say "yes you can go" or "no you can't go".

[N Harmon]

It would really suck if someone attended a school that the NHQ/DO certifies as equivalent to NESA, and said someone's squadron or wing commander drags their feet in approving an award that has been earned according to regulation. That isn't a squadron or wing I would want to be a member of.

[Hawk200]

It would really suck if someone attended a school that the NHQ/DO certifies as equivalent to NESA, and said someone's squadron or wing commander drags their feet in approving an award that has been earned according to regulation. That isn't a squadron or wing I would want to be a member of.

I've seen similar things happen in every wing I've been in, for various reasons. The latest is because the commander doesn't know the regs, and really doesn't like it when he's shown the regs that disagree with him (and won't accept).  Fortunately, he's gone shortly.