As some of you may have heard, there are rumors floating about from higher headquarters that CAP is currently working on a new photo Identification Card for CAP Senior Members.
The information so far seems that SMs who are willing to renew for a 3-year period can get the membership card, which will look pretty similar to the current verticle-oriented USAF ID cards. The differences would be, of course, CAP's name (not USAF's), a blue stripe across the bottom, and the lack of a smart chip. There would also be a built hologram with the CAP seal.
The ID is supposed to look something like this sample (minus the chip, plus the blue stripe):
(http://glr.cap.gov/files/assets/images/ID_CARD_NEC_DESIGN.JPG)
I, for one, think this is an excellent step in the right direction for CAP and I'm looking forward to hopefully be one of the first SMs to get one should they come out. I won't mind renewing for three years at a time. Comments, thoughts?
The new ID card is on the agenda for the National Board Meeting next month in Washington D.C. Also are some new variations depending upon cost that include making the membership card a 'photo ID' of sorts.
The major factor as I see it is more of a cost issue. Currently the membership card costs National something like 40 cents a piece to produce. A photo ID similiar to a current DoD ID card costs in the neighborhood of $2.50 a piece to produce. Now multiply that number out by some 41,000 senior members.
The DoD style ID card may become an optional item with the member paying for the card to offset costs to National.
The step to move to a photo ID card is a very positive move and has been needed for some time. Whatever configuration it ends up being we will just have to wait and see.
If it is approved at the NB expect to see something around October 1, 2005 hitting the streets.
I think it interesting and long overdue.
A major question will be if the AF will accept it for access to facilities. Now it can take up to a hour to get through the gate due to having to register everytime you want to go to wing supply (in CO at least) or MCSS or to a class on base.
My understanding of the "ID" Card that they are presenting is that the AF has bit off on it and that AF Colonel Sohan ispresenting it to the board.
The sample card I saw in the agenda also featured the USAF symbol with the CAP command shield above it. The CAP Seal will sit next to the picture with the words USAF Aux underneath it.
-CC
Quote from: Pylon on February 21, 2005, 06:41:48 PMThe ID is supposed to look something like this sample (minus the chip, plus the blue stripe):
Blue stripe ???
Quote from: Greg on February 22, 2005, 11:11:25 PM
Quote from: Pylon on February 21, 2005, 06:41:48 PMThe ID is supposed to look something like this sample (minus the chip, plus the blue stripe):
Blue stripe ???
From the proposal I heard about, the ID will have a blue stripe across the bottom of the ID (which the RealMilitary doesn't have on theirs) as an additional way to distinguish us as civlians and not members of the Armed Forces.
I am eagerly anticipating this ID and hope that by next year I'll have one in my wallet. I have long advocated a photo identification card over having simply a membership card, for a myriad of reasons most related to our operations.
We'll see how it goes over at the National Boards.
If they plan to make the SM's pay to offset the costs of such a card, I'd like to see that made available to cadets also. If cadets are willing to pay for the card, I think they should be allowed to have one. They would make much more secure photo ID for getting on bases at the very least.
Holden
from what I understand the card will only be available to SM's that opt to re-up their membership for three (3) years.
Quote from: JAdkinson on February 23, 2005, 08:51:32 AM
Holden
from what I understand the card will only be available to SM's that opt to re-up their membership for three (3) years.
This is going to be an expensive membership renewel! At least $150. :P ::)
close to $120 for me. ;D
The agenda for the NB meeting is up at National Publications site. One item on it is the photo id card - with images of the two design finalists.
Among the information provided:
It will be available to all senior members when renewing.
There may be a surcharge for the photo card if renewing for one or two years.
The photo card costs 4 to 7 times as much as the current membership card and funding sources will have to be identified.
The current temporary card would be replaced by a postcard with the membership number and instructions how to upload a photo.
Seniors who do not need or want base access may be able to opt-out of the new card.
If renewing for three years, only one card will be given free. Replacements and promotions must be paid for.
Unit numbers will not be on the card, eliminating the need to send out new cards if a member transfers.
And, after implementation, a deadline would be set after which only the photo card would be accepted for base access.
Both finalists have been approved by the AF. There is 4 pages devoted to this topic in the agenda.
It may finally come to pass! 8)
Very nice.
For everybody's enjoyment, here are the two proposed designs (which aren't much different from each other):
(http://www.siena.edu/seb/old/images/newCAPids.jpg)
Seems like it'd be a confusing mess of who gets them and who doesn't at first, but I'm sure in a year or two it would work out and settle down to a very simple and clear pattern.
Question- who's going to take the pictures?
They will be submitted online via CAPWATCH. This brings up another Q - who's gonna verify that the picture is actually of the member in question?
Quote from: SarDragon on February 24, 2005, 12:54:44 AM
They will be submitted online via CAPWATCH. This brings up another Q - who's gonna verify that the picture is actually of the member in question?
That system is already in place. When any member uploads their photo to CAPWATCH, it does not take effect or appear immediately. Their unit commander must approve the photograph by logging into e-Services and clicking on pending approvals, to verify that the photo is actually the member in question and the photo fits the guidelines and is appropriate for CAP use.
I don't see any reason to change that system. The person most likely to recognize each individual would be the unit commander, certainly not an NHQ staffer.
Quote from: Pylon on February 24, 2005, 01:23:56 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on February 24, 2005, 12:54:44 AM
They will be submitted online via CAPWATCH. This brings up another Q - who's gonna verify that the picture is actually of the member in question?
That system is already in place. When any member uploads their photo to CAPWATCH, it does not take effect or appear immediately. Their unit commander must approve the photograph by logging into e-Services and clicking on pending approvals, to verify that the photo is actually the member in question and the photo fits the guidelines and is appropriate for CAP use.
I don't see any reason to change that system. The person most likely to recognize each individual would be the unit commander, certainly not an NHQ staffer.
I'm being tempted to upload a picture of Orlando Bloom and see if my Squadron Commander will approve it ;D. On a more serious note- will it matter if SM's are in a uniform or not?
Quote from: Greg on February 24, 2005, 01:42:51 AM
Quote from: Pylon on February 24, 2005, 01:23:56 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on February 24, 2005, 12:54:44 AM
They will be submitted online via CAPWATCH. This brings up another Q - who's gonna verify that the picture is actually of the member in question?
That system is already in place. When any member uploads their photo to CAPWATCH, it does not take effect or appear immediately. Their unit commander must approve the photograph by logging into e-Services and clicking on pending approvals, to verify that the photo is actually the member in question and the photo fits the guidelines and is appropriate for CAP use.
I don't see any reason to change that system. The person most likely to recognize each individual would be the unit commander, certainly not an NHQ staffer.
I'm being tempted to upload a picture of Orlando Bloom and see if my Squadron Commander will approve it ;D. On a more serious note- will it matter if SM's are in a uniform or not?
I suppose NHQ should publish guidelines on the photos, specifying background, framing, and uniforms to address questions like that. My opinion is that if we're going to be carrying IDs that resemble those of the Armed Forces and portray us as Auxiliarists of the US Air Force that we ought to be in uniform (excluding golf shirts and mess dress) for the photo.
Quote from: Major_Chuck on February 22, 2005, 05:24:07 AM
The major factor as I see it is more of a cost issue. Currently the membership card costs National something like 40 cents a piece to produce. A photo ID similiar to a current DoD ID card costs in the neighborhood of $2.50 a piece to produce. Now multiply that number out by some 41,000 senior members.
Actually, I have an answer for this. It all depends on whether or not they keep the smart chip on the card, if it has a hologram, and if it is or is not double sided. My family is in the photo ID business, and I work with this stuff a lot.
Professional SWAGs for pricing per card:
Double-sided, no chip, no hologram: 67 cents
Double-sided, no chip, hologram: $2.67
Double-sided, chip, hologram: we don't deal with chips, so I'll pudge it at $5.67
Single-sided, no chip, no hologram: 50 cents
(The hologram and chip prices are low-end, not just lowest- but desperate bidder estimates)
Materials:
blank card: 14 cents a piece
printer ribbon: 40-50 cents per card
hologram: one (or more) big ol' several-thousand dollar printer, cost of designing the hologram, and the hologram ribbon and such, and also the design and placement of the hologram (I don't even want to think about dealing with that production hassle).
And for the rest of the obtuse combinations that you can think of, add the cost of the holograms and chips. The current CAPID cards I'd estimate at 50 cents per card. NHQ most likely has card with the text on the back and the design on the front printed for 30 to 40 cents a piece, and then they print your personal information over that. I can prove this because you can scratch your personal information off of the card and the background will be unaffected (ask yourself if you REALLY want to test this out... use one of your expired cards).
The NB agenda lists the various costs and investments that need to be made. The hologram is applied to the card as it is printing.
The current cost per card is $0.41.
The costs for the photo card ranges from $1.78 to $2.57.
Regarding holograms - if the new CAP cards are done the way my current DD Form 2 (Ret) and DD Form 1173 are done, the "holograms" are part of the laminating plastic sandwich. They require no special printing process as a part of the card making process, since the images are put in/on the plastic when it is made in bulk.
Ah, I see. Once upon a time we had a hologram printer here. The thing was a beast, the father unit must have been generalizing what it cost to run that machine.
While thinking about the new ID, I realized that the Air Force is really giving us some credit with this. It was previously stated that the Air Force had given its blessing to either design of the two choices the NB has before them. For the Air Force to approve an Identification Card that, particularly to the general public, looks much like the rest of the Armed Forces' ID cards is not only a sign of faith but also a responsibility.
The Air Force could have easily said that CAP should (for example) make its own unique layout, keep the current horizontal orientation, or in a number of ways made this new CAP ID entirely different from any current format ID used by USAF and the DoD.
With these new cards, I see a new level of professionalism expected from our Senior Membership - a level of professionalism commensurate with perhaps the active duty officers. (Not that we equate in any way whatsoever, simply that they may be hoping for an overall national professionalism from our SMs similar to the level their officer corps exudes).
Thoughts on that?
Quote from: Pylon on February 28, 2005, 10:21:16 AM
With these new cards, I see a new level of professionalism expected from our Senior Membership - a level of professionalism commensurate with perhaps the active duty officers. (Not that we equate in any way whatsoever, simply that they may be hoping for an overall national professionalism from our SMs similar to the level their officer corps exudes).
Thoughts on that?
For some senior members, it will not be a problem, for others, it will require a
MAJOR attitude adjustment. As a whole, I think CAP can rise to the challange. And if, as has been suggested in the agenda item, there is an opt-out option for those members who do not need or want base access, after the novelty wears off, some SM's will go back to the old (current) card. I can also see group or wing commanders specifying certain senior members will not get the new photo card based on their behavior - although if that is truly that much of a problem, 2B action is most likely warranted.
yeah, I really don't think a photo ID card will improve the profesionalism from any of the current seniors, especially those in cadet squadrons. Too many of them think of CAP of nothing more than Boy Scouts with better uniforms. That's one of my biggest peeves with a lot of seniors I know.
Add to that, there is no real oversight for seniors, they can really do whatever they want, and any new members to that unit will see how it's currently done, and not have the proper professional base to learn from. For CAP members to return to a proper professional frame of mind, it'll require much more than a cool ID card.
Are they perhaps giving us the incentives before they see the results, or do you think they think we're already at a level commensurate, on the national average, and so we're now seeing the token?
Quote from: whatevah on February 28, 2005, 06:34:36 PM
For CAP members to return to a proper professional frame of mind, it'll require much more than a cool ID card.
Good point. Perhaps CAP NHQ should roll out a program to develop the professionalism of the Senior Member corps around the same time. If done right, it certainly couldn't hurt our image to the USAF and public. ::)
Quote from: Pylon on February 24, 2005, 12:42:13 AM
Very nice.
For everybody's enjoyment, here are the two proposed designs (which aren't much different from each other):
(http://www.siena.edu/seb/old/images/newCAPids.jpg)
Seems like it'd be a confusing mess of who gets them and who doesn't at first, but I'm sure in a year or two it would work out and settle down to a very simple and clear pattern.
From the looks of it, the card also looks like the CAC (Common Access Card) that DoD, Army Civilians and AAFES employess also has.
Does anybody have the inside scoop on how the ID card vote went at NB and what system they decided to go with for distribution/funding/etc.?
Quote from: Pylon on March 08, 2005, 01:49:10 AM
Does anybody have the inside scoop on how the ID card vote went at NB and what system they decided to go with for distribution/funding/etc.?
From notes provided by Wing CC:
1) AF pre approved two possible designs. We voted to approve the design that includes a hologram.
2) New members will continue to receive a temporary card until the FBI screening is complete.
3) New photo cards will start to be available beginning 1 October 2005.
4) The current CAP membership card will still be available. Senior members who desire the new photo ID/membership card will pay $4.00 for the cards. The cards will need to be repurchased when a member is promoted or the cards are lost. The cards will no longer have the unit charter number so new cards will not be needed if a member changes units.
5) MGen Wheless will issue a letter stating that the new photo ID card is the preferred membership card for seniors. This ID card will not guarantee base access.
NHQ is working on the specifications for the photograph that members submit and the validation process.
Quote from: SarDragon on March 08, 2005, 07:22:41 AM
Quote from: Pylon on March 08, 2005, 01:49:10 AM
Does anybody have the inside scoop on how the ID card vote went at NB and what system they decided to go with for distribution/funding/etc.?
From nortes provided by Wing CC:
1) AF pre approved two possible designs. We voted to approve the design that includes a hologram.
2) New members will continue to receive a temporary card until the FBI screening is complete.
3) New photo cards will start to be available beginning 1 October 2005.
4) The current CAP membership card will still be available. Senior members who desire the new photo ID/membership card will pay $4.00 for the cards. The cards will need to be repurchased when a member is promoted or the cards are lost. The cards will no longer have the unit charter number so new cards will not be needed if a member changes units.
5) MGen Wheless will issue a letter stating that the new photo ID card is the preferred membership card for seniors. This ID card will not guarantee base access.
NHQ is working on the specifications for the photograph that members submit and the validation process.
Excellent. Thanks for the inside info. ;)
I'll be first in line to get one.
Is there any chance that cadets could get these cards?
Quote from: flying Raptor on April 14, 2005, 01:36:44 PM
Is there any chance that cadets could get these cards?
According to the NB minutes listed on e-services, this card will only be for senior members, but it may go to cadets sometime in the future, who knows.
Quote from: SarDragon on March 08, 2005, 07:22:41 AM
This ID card will not guarantee base access.
So other than "Dressing us up a bit" this card has a net/net effect of doing nothing more or less than the current membership card???
The idea is to make us look a little more official. It will really make it easier to get on some bases, that's for sure.
Quote from: CAPSGT on April 15, 2005, 05:10:44 AM
The idea is to make us look a little more official. It will really make it easier to get on some bases, that's for sure.
You really think so??
I remember back in the day, when my old ID card would get me onto any of the Air FOrce Bases without any problems. But that was a long time ago in a far away place.
Yea, it'll make us look a little more official.
As for getting on base, who knows. I heard that the AF wants to use only the new id card for base access.
Quote from: NB Minutes March 2005 (Draft)It should be noted that military base commanders determine who can access a facility.
Col. Sciss indicated that a joint AF-CAP letter could be circulated to military facilitates
through AF channels that would announce a date after which military facilities should
only recognize the new photo-ID card for senior members.
Quote from: arajca on April 15, 2005, 08:05:21 PM
As for getting on base, who knows. I heard that the AF wants to use only the new id card for base access.
Which of course would make LOTS of sence.
I just wonder if it will make any real difference in our ability to get on base when the time comes.
Just like before it'll be at the discretion of the base/garrison commander. In my experience, the previous base commander had us get a visitor's pass and our new garrison commander does not require and leave it under the discretion of the MP's and DoD police officers. Myself and a few other members are an exception because we are AD, Res, NG, Retired, Dependent or DoD employees.
Some MP's and DoD officers will honor the card and accept us as officers and others will not. So it just depends on the installation and Provost Marshall
and so it is likely to go.
It will vary from person to person and from site to site.
Quote from: abysmal on April 14, 2005, 11:31:25 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on March 08, 2005, 07:22:41 AM
This ID card will not guarantee base access.
So other than "Dressing us up a bit" this card has a net/net effect of doing nothing more or less than the current membership card???
Note the difference in terminology - the current card we carry is a
membership card. Always has been. It can be supplemented by CAPF 19, but that has its own problems. The new card is specifically an
identification card, with more credibility than the old system. As the ID card idea matures with the folks on the military bases, it will probably make things a lot easier. Change is not easy sometimes.
Also, please note that the quote above attributed to me is actually commentary by General Wheless. I'm sure that, in time, the new cards will significantly
improve base access.
Another thing with the new CAP ID card is that I think CAP NHQ should also send a letter and photo of the card to AAFES HQ in Dallas so AAFES can update they training to accomodate. Because AAFES personnel may not know what they are looking at. We see all kinds of Common Access Cards and all have been all white background. Guaranteed they will get confused when they see the new card. They are accustomed to seeing our current membership card.
I feel that this should be looked at as another positive step towards continued integration with the Air Force. The Identification card will make it easier as well for interaction with other branches of the service as well as Federal and State agencies.
It is important to note that base commanders have always had the final say in who comes on their bases and I support that 100%. We carry a responsibility as well to educate our local installation commanders on who we are; what our missions are; and why we would need access to their bases.
Quote from: Greg on February 22, 2005, 11:11:25 PM
Quote from: Pylon on February 21, 2005, 06:41:48 PMThe ID is supposed to look something like this sample (minus the chip, plus the blue stripe):
Blue stripe ???
I got this picture from a CAPblog(http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/2005/03/cap_to_adopt_ne.html)
And here's your blue stripe....
(http://www.2and2.net/Uploads/Images/capvscac.jpg).
...But it still has the Computer Chip.
Quote from: md132 on March 04, 2005, 01:06:52 PM
Quote from: Pylon on February 24, 2005, 12:42:13 AM
Very nice.
For everybody's enjoyment, here are the two proposed designs (which aren't much different from each other):
(http://www.siena.edu/seb/old/images/newCAPids.jpg)
Seems like it'd be a confusing mess of who gets them and who doesn't at first, but I'm sure in a year or two it would work out and settle down to a very simple and clear pattern.
From the looks of it, the card also looks like the CAC (Common Access Card) that DoD, Army Civilians and AAFES employess also has.
It's not just Army Civilians, it's all branches including their active duty, civillians, guard, reserve AND civllian contractors.
Quote from: Nukem on April 14, 2005, 01:46:09 PM
Quote from: flying Raptor on April 14, 2005, 01:36:44 PM
Is there any chance that cadets could get these cards?
According to the NB minutes listed on e-services, this card will only be for senior members, but it may go to cadets sometime in the future, who knows.
Is there any way the Cadet Advisory Council could help?
Given the cost factor involved, CAC would not be able to effect a change in the policy until the program has been rolled out and active for some time. Even then, there will be a $4.00 per card cost to be considered.
NCAC could certainly make the proposal to extend the ID issuing to cadets, but NHQ will most likely not be doing that just yet. It would be a waste of effort at this point and time. The new ID cards are basically a pilot program as it stands now. Not even all Senior Members will be getting them.
NHQ would probably like to eventually be under a one-card system at some point, even if just for simplicity's sake. So, I'd imagine that, yes, cadet cards are in the plans but not just yet. They want to see how well the system works on a limited basis first, and I don't blame them.
For Cadets who have a particular need for CAP Photo ID, for some reason where a CAP membership card and a government-issued photo ID in conjunction will not suffice, CAP always has had a photo ID card (CAPF 19) that you can request with CAPF 19A and forward to your Wing HQ through proper channels. It's no smart-chip card with holograms, but it
is an official CAP-issued photo identification card.
Quote from: CALcadet144 on April 19, 2005, 08:40:17 PM
Quote from: Nukem on April 14, 2005, 01:46:09 PM
Quote from: flying Raptor on April 14, 2005, 01:36:44 PM
Is there any chance that cadets could get these cards?
According to the NB minutes listed on e-services, this card will only be for senior members, but it may go to cadets sometime in the future, who knows.
Is there any way the Cadet Advisory Council could help?
How would CAC help? Its already been stated that these new cards may become available to cadets in the future.
Has anybody heard if these cards have hit the street yet?
In E-Services, there's now a link on the left hand side to order your photo ID. When you click on it, it brings you to an order page which conjures up your E-Services photo as a preview, as well as asks for your address, contact info, and how many cards at $4 a piece you'd like to order.
Unfortunately, it doesn't fully work. Once you click 'stumbit' it brings you to a nice error page.
Anybody else given the new form a try? A goof from IT way in advance, or are they going to start issuing soon?
[attachment deleted by admin- older than one year]
I'm guessing it was an IT goof. Wouldn't be the first time a mysterious link appears in e-Services that isn't supposed to be there yet.
Look for it in October. Probably an IT test to see if things work on their end. There is still the whole production issue to work out logistically.
-CC
I know the National Board Minuets said they would start this in Oct, and they must have realized they accidentally placed it on the e-services site, because its gone now.
When these did appear in e-Services, did they appear for evryone(Cadets & Seniors), or just Seniors?
Quote from: Pylon on April 29, 2005, 03:18:09 PM
Has anybody heard if these cards have hit the street yet?
In E-Services, there's now a link on the left hand side to order your photo ID. When you click on it, it brings you to an order page which conjures up your E-Services photo as a preview, as well as asks for your address, contact info, and how many cards at $4 a piece you'd like to order.
Unfortunately, it doesn't fully work. Once you click 'stumbit' it brings you to a nice error page.
Anybody else given the new form a try? A goof from IT way in advance, or are they going to start issuing soon?
Forget about it for now. It's been taken off. As mentioned above, it was probablt a goof on someone's part at National.
As for whether the card will be for everyone, the NEC said just for seniors. No cadets. That may change, but not for a couple years while they get all the bugs worked out.
Any word on the new ID's since Feb.?
???
Quote from: brasshat on June 16, 2005, 05:50:23 AM
Any word on the new ID's since Feb.?
???
According to CAP Knowlegdebase and e-services the pre-purchase and release date for the cards has been pushed back pending final AF approval. So it may be after the projected 1 Oct 05 date.
Somehow that comes as no surprise...
No it definately is no surprise there. The thing is I thought USAF approved the design months ago.
They well might have approved of the "design" but that doesn't mean that they have signed off on the implementation of the card..
Hmm... I guess they're still stalling on this program. Any new word on the street regarding the new cards?
Got word that USAF did not approve the proposed design. There is another design that they are proposing. Got it from the Aug 2005 NB minutes. There is a picture of the new proposed card.
Where did you get the minutes? The only thing posted is the agenda for the meeting.
But the latest design in shown. Unless they changed it again. ::)
Quote from: md132 on August 18, 2005, 06:56:25 PM
Got it from the Aug 2005 NB minutes.
Are the minutes published and available now?
i was told about the new design while at NBB, and it is listed in the Aug 05 agenda. as we all know the minutes will be posted in about 4 months, as usual.
No, they'll beat the 4 month window this time. I predict Three Months, 31 Days, 23 hours, and 55 seconds.
:)
CC
Your just a born optomist!
Quote from: Major_Chuck on August 18, 2005, 10:20:53 PM
No, they'll beat the 4 month window this time. I predict Three Months, 31 Days, 23 hours, and 55 seconds.
:)
CC
Care to make a wager??? :D
Tempting offer that wager. The only thing I'll place Pylon's CAP paycheck on is that the minutes will be out sooner than the next CAPM 39-1.
Quote from: Major_Chuck on August 20, 2005, 03:30:55 AM
Tempting offer that wager. The only thing I'll place Pylon's CAP paycheck on is that the minutes will be out sooner than the next CAPM 39-1.
Wait... why my CAP paycheck? :o You're a Major, you make at least 25% more than I do. :D
Quote from: Pylon on August 20, 2005, 05:32:54 PM
Quote from: Major_Chuck on August 20, 2005, 03:30:55 AM
Tempting offer that wager. The only thing I'll place Pylon's CAP paycheck on is that the minutes will be out sooner than the next CAPM 39-1.
Wait... why my CAP paycheck? :o You're a Major, you make at least 25% more than I do. :D
No, no, no. Every promotion increases your pay by a factor of 10, thus adding another zero on the right end (no decimal point).
2Lt = $0
1 Lt = $00
Capt = $000
Maj = $0000
and so on...
It was my understanding that CAP provided a higher COLA in New York State then they do here in the South. ;D
-cc
Quote from: Pylon on August 20, 2005, 05:32:54 PM
Quote from: Major_Chuck on August 20, 2005, 03:30:55 AM
Tempting offer that wager. The only thing I'll place Pylon's CAP paycheck on is that the minutes will be out sooner than the next CAPM 39-1.
Wait... why my CAP paycheck? :o You're a Major, you make at least 25% more than I do. :D
Quote from: Major_Chuck on August 21, 2005, 02:03:19 AM
It was my understanding that CAP provided a higher COLA in New York State then they do here in the South. ;D
-cc
What, Coke instead of Pepsi? Or maybe Royal Crown?
This Just In!
The ID card that CAP has been planning on and working on since it was approved by the NEC has been fully shot-down now by USAF. Below is an excerpt from the full letter that was sent to NHQ from USAF (http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/files/cap_id_request.pdf):
(http://capblog.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/nocac_.jpg)
CAP was prompted to come up with a new design. So, they swiped Tedd Agnelo's stylized version of the CAP Command Shield (without asking), and drafted up this library card version instead:
(http://capblog.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/newidrev2_1.jpg)
There has been considerable discussion on CAPBlog (http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/2005/07/_from_the_execu.html) and Civil Airman (http://www.civilairman.com/2005/07/31/newest-of-the-new-cap-id-cards/) regarding these with many members being fairly vocal about the new, new proposed design.
I'm pretty sure that the NB axed this design as well.
Quote from: MCreedKY214 on August 22, 2005, 01:55:23 PM
I'm pretty sure that the NB axed this design as well.
*PHEW*
That was the sound of a resounding sigh of relief. :) ::)
I wonder what proposal will be next?
Perhaps they could come up with a handful of designs and run a polling of the general membership as well as the USAF and CAP powers that be. See what the various feelings are amongst the different groups for the designs and go from there. At least that way everybody would have had their input.
Well, for what it's worth, I sent a more contemporary version of the MAJCOM up the chain, and was informed by SER CC Col Sharkey today that he forwarded it to an NHQ staffer.
It's not a total card redesign, but hey, if they'd like to use my stuff, it might as well be my best stuff. :)
(http://photos23.flickr.com/33543768_84a664383c.jpg?v=0)
Quote from: tedda on August 23, 2005, 01:32:31 AM
Well, for what it's worth, I sent a more contemporary version of the MAJCOM up the chain, and was informed by SER CC Col Sharkey today that he forwarded it to an NHQ staffer.
It's not a total card redesign, but hey, if they'd like to use my stuff, it might as well be my best stuff. :)
//image redacted//
You're so gracious to NHQ!
Who knows, maybe you'll be the designer of the ID card that thousands of CAP members will be carrying in their wallets for umpteen years.
;D
I sat in on the VAWG commanders briefing of the National Boards this evening. Apparently whoever CAP had working the ID Card project was talking to the wrong people at the Pentagon.
Back to square one. National is looking at resubmitting a card design and in the meantime they may revamp our 'membership' card to provide a photo on it.
Short term we may have a new Membership Card with photo and basic information or long term (1 1/2 years to two years) an I.D. Card.
-CC
to keep things a little easier, I split the topic about us designing a mockup for the CAP Photo ID into it's own thread -> http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=397.0
Quote from: Major_Chuck on August 23, 2005, 03:15:45 AM
I sat in on the VAWG commanders briefing of the National Boards this evening. Apparently whoever CAP had working the ID Card project was talking to the wrong people at the Pentagon.
Back to square one. National is looking at resubmitting a card design and in the meantime they may revamp our 'membership' card to provide a photo on it.
Short term we may have a new Membership Card with photo and basic information or long term (1 1/2 years to two years) an I.D. Card.
-CC
Isn't a membeship card with photo and basic information, in it's own right, an I.D. card? What more would a basic ID card have that wouldn't be on a membership card + photo + info?
>:(
Hell, I am going to just make my own styled after the cadic.
doc
Quote from: brasshat on November 08, 2005, 02:11:45 AM
>:(
Hell, I am going to just make my own styled after the cadic.
doc
After asking this question in the Knowledgebase, and NHQ consulting the General Counsel, NHQ said that local units are free to produce their own forms of identification. They, of course, would not indicate CAP membership -- they would have to be carried in conjunction with the national-issued membership card. But, heck, a Group or squadron could go out and contract professional made IDs to be made if they need it for something.
Quote from: Pylon on November 08, 2005, 03:40:09 PM
Quote from: brasshat on November 08, 2005, 02:11:45 AM
>:(
Hell, I am going to just make my own styled after the cadic.
doc
After asking this question in the Knowledgebase, and NHQ consulting the General Counsel, NHQ said that local units are free to produce their own forms of identification. They, of course, would not indicate CAP membership -- they would have to be carried in conjunction with the national-issued membership card. But, heck, a Group or squadron could go out and contract professional made IDs to be made if they need it for something.
8)
Well you know (or maybe you don't) we have always had the photo ID card ( I think it was called form 13...?) ::)to use in conjunction with a valid CAP ID card but it to, looked like a junior detective 'wanta-be' ID.
I can tell you after 22 years of law enforcement experience, a official, professional looking photo ID card gets more cooperation and displayed respect from those you have to work with that are not/do not work with you or this agency/organization on a regular basis!
Quote from: brasshat on November 08, 2005, 04:02:21 PM
8)
Well you know (or maybe you don't) we have always had the photo ID card ( I think it was called form 13...?) ::)to use in conjunction with a valid CAP ID card but it to, looked like a junior detective 'wanta-be' ID.
I can tell you after 22 years of law enforcement experience, a official, professional looking photo ID card gets more cooperation and displayed respect from those you have to work with that are not/do not work with you or this agency/organization on a regular basis!
Yeah, we still have it. It's the CAPF 19. It looks shoddy, unprofessional, and any college-student with a laminator and an ink-jet printer could reproduce it and then-some. It has no security features and would have looked professional back when it was designed in the 1970s... maybe.
But, hey, if you've got the money to blow and your unit regularly interacts with law enforcement and other agencies, there's no reason your unit can't have nice, new ID cards made with holograms, photos, and barcodes and whatnot.
hmm, kinda reminds me of that idea we had for 101 cards (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=301.0)... how's that comin' along ;D
Quote from: Matt on November 08, 2005, 05:57:17 PM
hmm, kinda reminds me of that idea we had for 101 cards (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=301.0)... how's that comin' along ;D
What idea, sir?
name's Matt....
And the idea was to redo the 101 cards and do a PVC card instead of laminated paper/cardboard...
Standard federal ID to replace common access cards
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by Army Sgt. Sara Wood
American Forces Press Service
11/30/2005 - WASHINGTON (AFPN) -- A new, standardized identification card is being developed for all federal employees.
The new card will replace the common access cards that military personnel, government civilians and contractors now hold, said Mary Dixon, deputy director of the Defense Manpower Data Center.
The new cards will look much the same as CACs, with a few changes, Mrs. Dixon said. The color scheme will be different and more information will be embedded in the card, she said.
The added information will be a biometric of two fingerprints, to be used for identification purposes, and a string of numbers that will allow physical access to buildings, Mrs. Dixon said.
The biggest change will be the addition of wireless technology, which will allow the cards to be read by a machine from a short distance away, Mrs. Dixon said. This will make the new cards much easier to use for access to buildings than CACs, which must be swiped through a reader, she said.
The new cards themselves will not be enough to grant access to all federal buildings, Mrs. Dixon said. Rather, they will be checked against each building's database to determine if an individual has access.
A prototype of the new card is being developed and will be finalized in the next couple of months, Mrs. Dixon said. The cards will be issued starting in October 2006 to all military personnel, government civilians and qualified contractors. In the Defense Department, all employees should have the new cards within three and a half years, she said. A timeline has not been set for the rest of the federal government.
Maybe this is the reason for the holdup on the new CAP ID cards...you think?
doc
FYI: HQ/NYWG does not recognize the CAPF-19 ID card. They also don't recognize MIMS to be valid (we still use paper capf 100 and capf 101). In fact, I'm not sure if they recognize CAP at all given the present CC transfer situation at NY-135.
Anyone know what happened to the old DD-2 cardstock and machines? The military still recognizes those as retirees are allowed to hang on to their cards indefinitely. Maybe we could adopt those to our use? There's bound to be card stock and machines laying around DRMO.
Quote from: afgeo4 on December 16, 2005, 06:05:49 AM
FYI: HQ/NYWG does not recognize the CAPF-19 ID card. They also don't recognize MIMS to be valid (we still use paper capf 100 and capf 101). In fact, I'm not sure if they recognize CAP at all given the present CC transfer situation at NY-135.
Anyone know what happened to the old DD-2 cardstock and machines? The military still recognizes those as retirees are allowed to hang on to their cards indefinitely. Maybe we could adopt those to our use? There's bound to be card stock and machines laying around DRMO.
Retirees are being encouraged to update their cards as the original ones become ragged and unreadable.
As for the old forms, I seriously doubt that they went to DRMO. As a serial numbered, controlled item, they probably were destroyed when the new style came out. I helped shut down a unit once, and that was one of the big accountability items - all the blank ID cards.
What machines are you referring to?
As the Form 19 is still a current National form, I doubt NYWG (nor any other lower echelon) has the authority to "not recognize" it as a form of CAP identification.
They do, of course, have the right not to issue them or allow them in NY for NYWG members.
In IL, form 19's were issued at the Wing level until about a year or so ago when it appeared the NHQ photo ID would finally be issued.
Since that process is now back at square one, and 19's can be issued at any echelon, we are considering issuing them at the Group level pending acion on the Nat ID.
Though I agree they do not look as nice as they should, they are only valid when accompanied by the plastic card, and are better than nothing. Most of the airports and military installations we operate in around here prefer / require a photo card and the 19 works fine. Their primary advantage was that they resembled the old mil-spec ID's.
The hard-fast reality is that technology has made simple work of forging just about any document - even the equipment to make hard-plastic CAC-like cards (BTW the CAC is now being phased out in favor of a Federal ID) is available on the net very cheap.
So, unless they are using the bar-code or chip readers, what the card looks like is trivial.
The machines I'm talking about are the printers hooked up to PC's that have webcams on top of them they used to take the picture, process it into the ID software and print the ID in front of you. I believe every 13 year old has that stuff on their iMac today.
Current DD-2 form cards are being used by AAFES. All AAFES associates get issued the card when hired. They have the option of getting a DoD CAC though but DD-2 is the normal card for AAFES.
Quote from: md132 on December 17, 2005, 11:36:52 PM
Current DD-2 form cards are being used by AAFES. All AAFES associates get issued the card when hired. They have the option of getting a DoD CAC though but DD-2 is the normal card for AAFES.
Are they the tan cards? If so, then they are not DD-2s, they are DD-1173s, United States Uniformed Services Identification and Privilege Card. This is the card commonly referred to as the "dependents" ID card.
DD-2s (in their differently colored iterations) are issued to active duty, reserve and retired service members.
I'm not sure if that's changed yet, but the NY Guard (NYS Militia, not National Guard) uses a version of the old DoD DD-2. Of course, it says "NYS Dept of Military and Naval Affairs" on it instead of "Department of Defense", but it looks like it's designed and printed the same way. If they can use it, we might be able to as well. Garrisons and AAFES in New York allow the NY Guard priviledges similar to National Guardsmen... however, no commissary priviledges are given.
Well, a while ago, a link popped up on e-Services (that actually works, unlike the other short-lived one - yay IT guys! :clap:) to pre-purchase an ID card. I did, and it went through OK, my only problem is, I don't even know which ID card I said I'd buy... is it the one similar to the CAC ID? Is it that one that looks like the USCG Auxiliary ID's?
Would anyone have an official source on which one they're getting made?
Maybe its time to merge Cadetstuff.org with CAPTALK - we've been beating this up over there.
http://forums.cadetstuff.org/viewtopic.php?t=4549&highlight=
That link showed up and one of my guys called NHQ. The personnel directorate was unaware there was any link, there is no ID currently even approved yet, and no timetable for the process.
Sorry...
Quote from: Eclipse on February 05, 2006, 03:49:11 AM
Maybe its time to merge Cadetstuff.org with CAPTALK - we've been beating this up over there.
http://forums.cadetstuff.org/viewtopic.php?t=4549&highlight=
That link showed up and one of my guys called NHQ. The personnel directorate was unaware there was any link, there is no ID currently even approved yet, and no timetable for the process.
Sorry...
When did one of your guys call NHQ about this? Because when I said I just ordered my card, I mean I literally just ordered it, about 30 minutes ago, and everything went through OK, I got a response e-mail from CAPNHQ saying the transaction went through OK.
The system itself works - you just won't get anything.
And I believe it indicates your card won't be charged until a card ships.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 05, 2006, 04:10:36 AM
And I believe it indicates your card won't be charged until a card ships.
Yes, it does (or did, I should say).
But haven't you seen all the posts on here and CadetStuff that tell us these new cards are intended for SENIOR MEMBERS ONLY? You sig indicates that you are currently a cadet.
Good catch, Sir! :clap:
The forest for the trees...the forest for the trees...
Quote from: SarDragon on February 06, 2006, 07:53:49 AM
But haven't you seen all the posts on here and CadetStuff that tell us these new cards are intended for SENIOR MEMBERS ONLY? You sig indicates that you are currently a cadet.
No need for us to get all territorial about the ID cards. I honestly don't care who gets them, so long as that's what NHQ decides is best. If you all log in to E-Servies, and click on the link to sign up for the ID card, it says right there (with my emphasis added):
Quote from: E-Services
The CAP National Board recently approved an optional picture membership card for senior and cadet members. The cost of this optional card is $4.00. We are still awaiting Air Force approval on the design but as soon as approval is received will begin working with a contractor to procure these cards. Specifications for the type and file size of photos will be forthcoming. If you pre-purchase your card now you will be first in line to receive this new card when it is available! Your card will be charged at the time of purchase. Delivery of your new card is anticipated to be during the fourth quarter of FY06 , barring any delays from the vendor.
Quote from: SarDragon on February 06, 2006, 07:53:49 AM
But haven't you seen all the posts on here and CadetStuff that tell us these new cards are intended for SENIOR MEMBERS ONLY? You sig indicates that you are currently a cadet.
I just clicked on it, it may have changed, but what I see is:
Quote from: CAPNHQ
The CAP National Board recently approved an optional picture membership card for senior and cadet members. The cost of this optional card is $4.00. We are still awaiting Air Force approval on the design but as soon as approval is received will begin working with a contractor to procure these cards. Specifications for the type and file size of photos will be forthcoming. If you pre-purchase your card now you will be first in line to receive this new card when it is available! Your card will be charged at the time of purchase. Delivery of your new card is anticipated to be during the fourth quarter of FY06 , barring any delays from the vendor.
I was intrigued because I thought it was only for SMs, but according to the site, which is often changed, it says both.
Quote from: Matt on February 06, 2006, 02:42:11 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on February 06, 2006, 07:53:49 AM
But haven't you seen all the posts on here and CadetStuff that tell us these new cards are intended for SENIOR MEMBERS ONLY? You sig indicates that you are currently a cadet.
I just clicked on it, it may have changed, but what I see is:
Quote from: CAPNHQ
The CAP National Board recently approved an optional picture membership card for senior and cadet members. The cost of this optional card is $4.00. We are still awaiting Air Force approval on the design but as soon as approval is received will begin working with a contractor to procure these cards. Specifications for the type and file size of photos will be forthcoming. If you pre-purchase your card now you will be first in line to receive this new card when it is available! Your card will be charged at the time of purchase. Delivery of your new card is anticipated to be during the fourth quarter of FY06 , barring any delays from the vendor.
I was intrigued because I thought it was only for SMs, but according to the site, which is often changed, it says both.
I think its silly to not allow it for cadets - they need ID as much as seniors. Perhaps there are legal issues with ID for minors.
Unless they are doing this with more secrecy than the Manhattan Project, nothing's been approved and no vendors have been chosen. Man do I hope we're wrong on this.
OK, my bust. I hadn't actually clicked the link, because I want to wait until I see something more concrete than a URL on a web page.
That said, they may have trotted this out a bit early to see what kind of response there will be. YMMV.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 05, 2006, 03:49:11 AM
That link showed up and one of my guys called NHQ. The personnel directorate was unaware there was any link, there is no ID currently even approved yet, and no timetable for the process.
Sorry...
Ok, well, I just got an e-mail back from the CAPNHQ.GOV domain webmaster and here's the response I got:
Quote from: CAPNHQ.GOV WEBMASTERSir,
The new Membership Picture ID application is available for use online.
Katrina C. Jackson
Chief, Software Development
Voice: (334) 953-2479
Fax: (334) 953-5296
DSN: 493-2479
Yes - the application is up, but there is nothing to buy.
Ask her directly when the ID was approved and when they will ship.
I think Photo IDs are great. Whatever form they take is fine.
It also gives member more of a sense of belonging.
I also don't see why AF Pass and ID at each base cannot provide them.
OOPS, never mind about AF comment, LOL!
Quote from: Eclipse on February 10, 2006, 01:18:45 AM
Yes - the application is up, but there is nothing to buy.
Ask her directly when the ID was approved and when they will ship.
We know now that it also actually charges your card, too.
http://forums.cadetstuff.org/viewtopic.php?p=104431#104431 (http://forums.cadetstuff.org/viewtopic.php?p=104431#104431)
Do you thing maybe they're trying to collect the funds so they can pay off the appropriate Air Force personnel to get this approved? Perhaps this is our version of the 767 Tanker acquisition deal? Maybe they're just trying to figure out if we CAP members are willing to ACTUALLY pay for nothing? I mean the fact that we renew our memberships to buy uniforms and do work for free should have cleared up that question, but maybe they're still not sure?
Yeah, considering what happened with the prior "CAP approved, waiting for USAF approval" ID cards I'll pass. Call me when the thing gets made and then I'll give them my CC #.
I realize that this issue has been pretty much beaten to death, but I wasn't sure if everyone finally caught the latest on this whole photo ID card.
In case you missed it in your e-mail, MG Pineda informed everyone that the photo ID card has been approved by USAF. It's the library card design unfortunately. See the General's remarks here along with a brief screen shot of the new and approved ID card:
http://www.magnetmail.net/actions/email_web_version.cfm?
recipient_id=22135435&message_id=160445&user_id=CivilAir (http://www.magnetmail.net/actions/email_web_version.cfm?%3Cbr%20/%3Erecipient_id=22135435&message_id=160445&user_id=CivilAir)
Take care all!
I also liked the idea of a photo ID. It really doesn't matter what it looks like. A photo ID is a photo ID.
Also I wasn't charged for the ID as of yet. I pre-purchased it a month ago and it hasn't appeared on my statement.
All I can say to everyone is to be patient. There is still the CAPF 19A, or you can still use your membership card with a picture ID.
Quote from: md132 on March 11, 2006, 01:54:39 AM
I also liked the idea of a photo ID. It really doesn't matter what it looks like. A photo ID is a photo ID.
Also I wasn't charged for the ID as of yet. I pre-purchased it a month ago and it hasn't appeared on my statement.
All I can say to everyone is to be patient. There is still the CAPF 19A, or you can still use your membership card with a picture ID.
I ordered one as well. According to my credit card statement I've been billed for it.
Any further rumors amuk indicating when these pre-ordered cards might hit the streets?
Quote from: Pylon on March 15, 2006, 05:34:25 AM
Any further rumors amuk indicating when these pre-ordered cards might hit the streets?
Well, according to the notes sent out by my wing commander (and hearing this from CadetStuff, as well), within the next two-three months.
Got an email notification from Knowledgebase. USAF approved the photo ID. Here is the link National provided.
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1634&p_created=1117721370
I would venture a safe guess would be sometime this fall for delivery of the cards. I haven't however seen any direction on the 'official photo' they want used. I would hope people would submit a headshot with them in one of our MANY uniform combinations.
My Wing CC's notes said April / May, Group Legal says May - I vote May.
Photos will be those posted on eServices, approved by your unit CC.
You know... NHQ is making this big push for photo ID cards, and I have yet to see one official announcement from them with a sample of the ID. I know the sample is running around the unofficial channels, but c'mon now.
Hello Capt. Nicholas Mclarty, I use to be a cadet with the San Antonio Composite Squadron (now Lackland Cadet Squadron). I am also curious about the new cap photo ID.
Quote from: mclarty on March 15, 2006, 06:54:16 PM
You know... NHQ is making this big push for photo ID cards, and I have yet to see one official announcement from them with a sample of the ID. I know the sample is running around the unofficial channels, but c'mon now.
As a fellow CS'er, welcome to CAPtalk Capt. McLarty.
The official (new) CAPID card design can be seen in this Nat'l/CC video update. http://civilairpatrolnhq.sitestream.com/PinedaFebUpdate.vsml (http://civilairpatrolnhq.sitestream.com/PinedaFebUpdate.vsml)
CAPFLT001 made it official in his last video update. It as reiterated at the NBB meeting that we would see them in April or May, and now my Legal people are saying may.
If you go to capchannel (http://www.capchannel.com/home)you can find the video.
Not sure how more official it can be than that.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 16, 2006, 12:42:15 AM
CAPFLT001 made it official in his last video update. It as reiterated at the NBB meeting that we would see them in April or May, and now my Legal people are saying may.
If you go to capchannel (http://www.capchannel.com/home)you can find the video.
Not sure how more official it can be than that.
Yeah, I know it's in the video, but realistically does every member have to watch the video to see something for which NHQ is peddling money? I mean, simply slapping an image of it on the order form page on eServices is sufficient -- just
something that ties "Hi, we at Come And Pay Headquarters are selling yet something new to suck members into... and this is what it looks like." would just make sense.
[darn]! I said the key phrase... "make sense". That explains it.
[ADD: And of course, so I go try to watch the video and guess what... DNS doesn't like http://civilairpatrolnhq.sitestream.com/PinedaFebUpdate.vsml today. CAP technology at its finest! :)]
The man's right. Not everyone can even view streaming video very well on their PCs. It wouldn't take a lot of effort to provide an image of the card.
Then again, maybe nobody's asked outside the hallowed halls of this forum
...or CadetStuff
...or CAPblog
...or CivilAirman
...or Jim-Bob's CAPstravaganza.com
...et al ;)
or perhaps they just figure it'll show up back-channel anyway. I found out that Ctrl-PrintScreen doesn't play nice with streaming video yesterday when I tried to capture it.
Or... if it did, it's all black, and MG Pineda is actually a very very dark man.
(http://group22.net/files/other/new_id.jpg)
This is the ID featured in the stream - my sources indicate the real MAJCOM will be returned to the card, not the one shown above, and obviously we won't use VISA's hologram.
My LGL officer spoke with the Personnel Directorate this morning and they indicated they would not begin issuing cards until the begining of the next fiscal year (Oct) - my bet is they don't have the cash right now for the equipment, etc.
As to why the word isn't getting out, well, why should it? The cards arent' available yet, and when they actually are, I'm sure we'll get instructions and information.
This is like knowing about a movie 6 months before its release. Until its in the can, things can change..
It just goes back to the philosophy... "We're selling the thing, maybe people should be able to see what it is we're selling." That's like me telling you that I'm releasing a brand new car on the market for $35,000... but you can't see it until you buy one.
I guess I'll brave the evil forest of KBase and see what they say. :)
I am thoroughly impressed... I had a response within 20 minutes. Disregarding the link they provide runs into an application error... it's the thought that counts.
-----
Image of the new picture ID will be posted on the web page and knowledgebase when available.
Update on picture membership card 27 Feb 06
https://www.capnhq.gov/news/MbrCard.aspx?SID=CBDBC6CB-39E0-45F8-BA51-102B6F127BD9
The CAP National Board recently approved an optional picture membership card for senior and cadet members. The cost of this optional card is $4.00. The Air Force has given final approval on the design and we have begun the process of working with a contractor to procure these cards. Specifications for the type and file size of photos will be forthcoming. If you pre-purchase your card now you will be first in line to receive this new card when it is available! Your card will be charged at the time of purchase. Delivery of your new card is anticipated to be during the fourth quarter of FY06, barring any delays from the vendor.