CAP Talk

General Discussion => Uniforms & Awards => Topic started by: Arc light on September 03, 2017, 10:36:23 PM

Title: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: Arc light on September 03, 2017, 10:36:23 PM
I tried looking in 39-1, but could not find if we can wear our DUI on the cap uniform, I know we can wear military ribbons and badges, but could find specific insignia, thanks
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: PHall on September 03, 2017, 11:15:03 PM
Not authorized. Per the 39-1 if it's not listed then you can't wear it.
You can however, going through channels of course, request permission from National Headquarters to wear it. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: kwe1009 on September 03, 2017, 11:19:44 PM
Not authorized. Per the 39-1 if it's not listed then you can't wear it.
You can however, going through channels of course, request permission from National Headquarters to wear it. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

This.

NHQ is the only authority that can authorize the wear of the DUI.  If anyone else says that you can wear it they are not correct.  Not even the Wing or Region commander has that authority.
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: Jester on September 03, 2017, 11:32:11 PM
I don't see it ever happening. If the AF ever allows combat patches for all, you may have a small shot at a case.
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: stillamarine on September 04, 2017, 11:00:21 AM
Wait.......the army gives awards for DUIs?? I know some Marines that would have 2nd and 3rd awards  >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: kwe1009 on September 04, 2017, 11:18:41 AM
Wait.......the army gives awards for DUIs?? I know some Marines that would have 2nd and 3rd awards  >:D >:D >:D

You win the Internet today! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: LSThiker on September 04, 2017, 11:49:56 AM
I tried looking in 39-1, but could not find if we can wear our DUI on the cap uniform, I know we can wear military ribbons and badges, but could find specific insignia, thanks

The DUI or distinctive unit insignia is not an award.  Rather, it is a heraldric unit identifier worn on the shoulder loops and on enlisted berets. 

The SSI is also a unit identifier.  The SSI-FWTS is a combat unit identifier.  These are all not awards. 
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on September 04, 2017, 11:56:26 AM
In other words, you are asking to wear what in CAP would be another squadron patch in addition to your current squadron patch.
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: THRAWN on September 04, 2017, 02:14:29 PM
Wear Army stuff on your Army uni, wear CAP stuff on your CAP uni....keep it simple,son....
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: SarDragon on September 04, 2017, 03:26:29 PM
Wait.......the army gives awards for DUIs?? I know some Marines that would have 2nd and 3rd awards  >:D >:D >:D

Must have been in Iwakuni, Japan. They used to give out DUIs like Halloween candy, including to people on bicycles on base.  ;D
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: stillamarine on September 04, 2017, 07:42:16 PM
Wait.......the army gives awards for DUIs?? I know some Marines that would have 2nd and 3rd awards  >:D >:D >:D

Must have been in Iwakuni, Japan. They used to give out DUIs like Halloween candy, including to people on bicycles on base.  ;D

True story, I arrested a guy once for Public Intox for riding his bicycle on the interstate, wrong way, in the middle lane. Got to the jail and the magistrate told me if I would have done a SFST on the scene I could have charged him for DUI. I was like.........uh cool.
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on September 04, 2017, 08:27:15 PM
What is an SFST?
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: grunt82abn on September 04, 2017, 08:37:53 PM
What is an SFST?
Standard Field Sobriety Test
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on September 04, 2017, 08:40:30 PM
At my age, things that would be "standard" and "common sense" are... forgotten.

I keep thinking and thanking it does not happen. I do not drink, nor use drugs. But I think I would  fail a sobriety test because of my physical problems and age.

Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: stillamarine on September 04, 2017, 08:56:31 PM
At my age, things that would be "standard" and "common sense" are... forgotten.

I keep thinking and thanking it does not happen. I do not drink, nor use drugs. But I think I would  fail a sobriety test because of my physical problems and age.

My bad. We actually take physical abilities into account.
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: Commo on September 05, 2017, 06:29:58 PM
I tried looking in 39-1, but could not find if we can wear our DUI on the cap uniform, I know we can wear military ribbons and badges, but could find specific insignia, thanks

I'm assuming you are active or reserve in asking this.  As a veteran, I'm not sure I'm authorized to wear DUI of my last unit on the occasions I can and do wear my uniform: Memorial Day, Veterans Day, weddings, funerals, etc.  When dress blues were dress blues, DUI weren't worn anyway, which made that an easy choice.

Commo
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: CAPLTC on September 07, 2017, 07:38:35 PM
I tried looking in 39-1, but could not find if we can wear our DUI on the cap uniform, I know we can wear military ribbons and badges, but could find specific insignia, thanks
Nope.
Not authorized.
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: GroundHawg on September 13, 2017, 06:36:37 AM
Or better yet just ask your squadron commander, she is all knowing and omnipotent ::)
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: Red 6 on September 21, 2017, 01:26:50 PM
Just to offer a bit of clarity on this topic, let me explain what the Op was probably talking about. In the US Army, enlisted Soldiers serving in a specific unit wear the distinctive unit insignia (aka unit crests) of that outfit on their epaulets with the Army Service Uniform. In addition, you have a regimental affiliation. The unit crest of your affiliated regiment is displayed over the right pocket. Combat service and combat service support Soldiers are always affiliated with their corps. (MP, ordnance, medical, quartermaster, etc.) Combat arms Soldiers affiliate with a specific regiment.

As somebody else mentioned, these aren't awards. The SSI-FWTS (combat patch) and the CSIB are two different things. The CSIB is an identification badge. I've been researching it in Air Force regulations and instructions for wear on service dress, but haven't found very clear guidance.

Cheers!
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: NIN on September 21, 2017, 02:09:20 PM
I tried looking in 39-1, but could not find if we can wear our DUI on the cap uniform, I know we can wear military ribbons and badges, but could find specific insignia, thanks

Missed this the first time around.

Former soldier here. Short version: DUIs are not authorized on the AF uniform, and by extension, the CAP uniform.

The concept of a "unit crest" or "regimental affiliation" would make most "big Blue" folks heads asplode. :)

Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: Jester on September 21, 2017, 02:16:52 PM
The SSI-FWTS (combat patch) and the CSIB are two different things. The CSIB is an identification badge. I've been researching it in Air Force regulations and instructions for wear on service dress, but haven't found very clear guidance.


I don't think the AFI will ever recognize this distinguishing point between the two.  In the AF, a badge is a badge is a badge.  People got all spun up about Ranger/SF tabs because the Army has various nomenclature for those kinds of things, but in the AF they're just badges, and subject to the same rules of wear.  The only real difference in types of badges as far as the AF is concerned is occupational and duty badges. 

Sounds like the new AF OCP guidance (restricted to AFCENT for now) allows wear of combat patches, so maybe in 10 years it'll be allowed AF-wide, and then CAP will have a case.
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on September 21, 2017, 07:20:17 PM
I tried looking in 39-1, but could not find if we can wear our DUI on the cap uniform, I know we can wear military ribbons and badges, but could find specific insignia, thanks

Missed this the first time around.

Former soldier here. Short version: DUIs are not authorized on the AF uniform, and by extension, the CAP uniform.

The concept of a "unit crest" or "regimental affiliation" would make most "big Blue" folks heads asplode. :)

And that’s without going into the fact that they are called Distinctive Unit Insignia and are not crests at all, from a heraldic standpoint. (The “crest” is the thing that goes at the top of an armorial achievement. Often seen atop a “helm” (helmet) but can also be placed above a “torse” (the twisted rope-looking thing). In CAP, for example, the crest is the eagle on top of everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: Red 6 on September 21, 2017, 07:40:14 PM
It matters from a heraldic standpoint that they're not technically crests, but the fact is that generations of Soldiers call them 'unit crests.' (Which in any event, are not authorized on CAP uniforms.)
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on September 21, 2017, 07:55:49 PM
It matters from a heraldic standpoint that they're not technically crests, but the fact is that generations of Soldiers call them 'unit crests.' (Which in any event, are not authorized on CAP uniforms.)

Indeed. Which means that the moment to stop the practice was also generations ago. But, it isn’t just in the Army.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: NIN on September 21, 2017, 07:57:01 PM
And that’s without going into the fact that they are called Distinctive Unit Insignia and are not crests at all, from a heraldic standpoint. (The “crest” is the thing that goes at the top of an armorial achievement. Often seen stop a “helm” (helmet) but can also be placed above a “torse” (the twisted rope-looking thing). In CAP, for example, the crest is the eagle on top of everything.

Bernie, I've known you for a long time. Next time I see you, I'm gonna kick you. :)

Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: Mitchell 1969 on September 21, 2017, 08:06:53 PM
And that’s without going into the fact that they are called Distinctive Unit Insignia and are not crests at all, from a heraldic standpoint. (The “crest” is the thing that goes at the top of an armorial achievement. Often seen stop a “helm” (helmet) but can also be placed above a “torse” (the twisted rope-looking thing). In CAP, for example, the crest is the eagle on top of everything.

Bernie, I've known you for a long time. Next time I see you, I'm gonna try to kick you. :)

FTFY.
Title: Re: army distinctive unit insignia
Post by: SarDragon on September 21, 2017, 11:42:33 PM
Q asked; Q answered.

The big kids are getting frisky; time to say bye-bye.

Click.