Iowa Wing lowers officer requirements??

[lordmonar]

My understanding is that all new seniors in Iowa join IA001 and remain there through full Level 1 plus a number of other entry level courses (GES, for instance) that constitute some or all of IA OTS.

They are reassigned on OTS completion (and promotion to 2 Lt?) and transferred to squadrons.

It may seem like an unusual approach, but I don't think it violates CAP regs.

What is to stop someone joining a squadron?  I mean...application forms don't go through wing, by the time wing is even aware of a new member he could already be a 2d Lt.

Secondly...and this is a technical, devils advocate point of view.  By the existing regulations the wing has 7 days to after the completion of the Level I/CPPT course to submit the CAPF11.  So even if you only hold the mentoring portion of this training at the OTS weekend and the member never returned...they would still have to honor his 2a and promote him.  They have no choice.  You cannot add to the requirements for promotion.  They have to report him as completing his Level I training at some point because they want to order his course 13.  Once his level I is complete and he has his six months...they must promote him.

Again...I think that the Iowa plan has a lot of merits and I think it may be something that other wings should look at.....however....we need to be aware of what we can and cannot do to/with our members within the context of the regulations.

[Johnny Yuma]

Good God!

I go away for a couple days and the biggest topic of conversation is a guy with Down's making 2LT in IAWG? I know of members(?) who haven't had grade for 5 years who haven't got everything they need for 2LT.

And this thread went 4 pages? 


Johnny Yuma

[lordmonar]

Good God!

I go away for a couple days and the biggest topic of conversation is a guy with Down's making 2LT in IAWG? I know of members(?) who haven't had grade for 5 years who haven't got everything they need for 2LT.

And this thread went 4 pages? 


Johnny Yuma

johnny....I got to say then that you got serious problems in your squadron.

Level one takes no more than 3-4 hours on the computer, a few hours reading the regs and an hour or so in a mentoring session!

[Dragoon]

Is there a copy of the OTS curriculum online?  I'd be interested in what they think are the key skills that need to be taught to all CAP second looies

[Hawk200]

Is there a copy of the OTS curriculum online?  I'd be interested in what they think are the key skills that need to be taught to all CAP second looies

Not that I've seen. From going by the letter sent to National, it's all pretty standard stuff, and available now. The only difference seems to be that they do most of it in residence. Which would have the benefit of consistency.

[Guardrail]

Is there a copy of the OTS curriculum online?  I'd be interested in what they think are the key skills that need to be taught to all CAP second looies

Not that I've seen. From going by the letter sent to National, it's all pretty standard stuff, and available now. The only difference seems to be that they do most of it in residence. Which would have the benefit of consistency.

Is there an online copy of the letter sent to National, by chance?

[Hawk200]

Is there an online copy of the letter sent to National, by chance?

Pretty much all in this thread. The letter is the first link in the message.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=911.0

[TankerT]

My understanding is that all new seniors in Iowa join IA001 and remain there through full Level 1 plus a number of other entry level courses (GES, for instance) that constitute some or all of IA OTS.

They are reassigned on OTS completion (and promotion to 2 Lt?) and transferred to squadrons.

It may seem like an unusual approach, but I don't think it violates CAP regs.

Pretty much no.  While they can't make OTS completion a requirement for the promotion, the CAPR 39-2 doesn't state that it cannot be supplemented.  And, as such, they could require that all new members join IA001.  And, IA001 could very well have a policy that Level I is only offered during their OTS training sessions.

And, remember, "Be recommended for promotion by the unit commander" is also fairly subjective as well.  They could very well not promote someone if they don't complete OTS for "not being an active participant." 

Now, the basis probably wouldn't be that they didn't finish OTS, it would probably be that they weren't coming to training sessions, or were not a cooperative/productive member.

Let's face it, we've all seen Lt Col Critelli's posts.  He's no dummy.  And, as an attorney, he's probably very careful to ensure they are staying within the regulations and laws.

You may/may not agree with how they do it.  But, I think they are working within the regulations while running the program they want.  And, sure, they may have a slot based system.  But, turning people away because they don't currently have an open slot isn't discrimination, as long as it is applied the same way across the board.

Lt Col Critelli has been the first to say that they have problems like everyone else.  And, their model may not work for everyone.  (I see some areas that would work for my wing, and some that might not.)  Just because it is new or different, doesn't make it bad.

[ZigZag911]

Read the first section (GENERAL) of 35-3 again, where it states that certain accomplishments or certifications [may qualify CAP seniors for promotion....nothing is automatic, no one is 'entitled' to promotion....the only way discrimination could be claimed would be if all were not held to the same criteria.

[lordmonar]

For the record....I whole heartedly approve of the OTS program that Iowa is doing.  And while it violate the letter of the regulations (by my read at least) it does not violate the spirit of the regulation when it is applied across the board.

So again...Iowa...keep up the good work.

[Johnny Yuma]

Good God!

I go away for a couple days and the biggest topic of conversation is a guy with Down's making 2LT in IAWG? I know of members(?) who haven't had grade for 5 years who haven't got everything they need for 2LT.

And this thread went 4 pages? 


Johnny Yuma

johnny....I got to say then that you got serious problems in your squadron.

Level one takes no more than 3-4 hours on the computer, a few hours reading the regs and an hour or so in a mentoring session!

Actually this is across the entire Wing, but to say we've had members that haven't progressed in that amount of time is a problem.

[isuhawkeye]

ok gang.   How about asking questions, and not jumping to conclusions.  the Iowa folks have been more that willing to answer questions. 

In short.  Iowa has not, and is not changing regulations.  we are clearly not subverting anyone's ability to promote (given our 2nd lt), but we are puting the program together in a way that it can be valuable to our members

[Eclipse]

ok gang.   How about asking questions, and not jumping to conclusions.  the Iowa folks have been more that willing to answer questions.

Q: Are there any additional requirments to progress in grade beyond those indicated in 35-5 (at any grade)?

[isuhawkeye]

NO

[isuhawkeye]

the program has been optomised to ensure high quality education before a member gets to the promotion stage. 

[lordmonar]

If someone could not or would not attend the OTS sessons at the Wing Training Event...can he still be promoted?

[isuhawkeye]

what could keep them from being promoted?

As I stated no policy or regulation changes are on file. How hard is that to understand

[lordmonar]

what could keep them from being promoted?

As I stated no policy or regulation changes are on file. How hard is that to understand

Hey...you asked me to ask questions....don't give me attitude!

It has been implied seveal times...that the OTS prorgram was manditory.  That was what I was trying to clarify.  That is all...and you answered my question.  Thank you.

[isuhawkeye]

Fine

[Eclipse]

the program has been optomised to ensure high quality education before a member gets to the promotion stage. 

Define optimized, please.