Cadet Advisory Counsil

[TEAM SURGE]

Hello,

I am very curious about the CAC. I would like to know about what they do! Can someone please give me some information!

Thanks!

C/Tsgt.Messman
Northwest Coastal Composite Flight!

[Camas]

Check CAPR 52-16 Chapter 3. Or check with 1st Lt Rust; your unit commander

[TEAM SURGE]

Check CAPR 52-16 Chapter 3. Or check with 1st Lt Rust; your unit commander

I would like to get your guys, view on it.

Who is this?

[AlphaSigOU]

Sgt Messman,

Also read CAP Pamphlet 52-19, Cadet Advisory Council Guide.

<--former chairman, Florida Wing Group 15 Cadet Advisory Council 1981-82

<-- former senior advisor, Texas Wing Cadet Advisory Council 2006-2008

[DC]

Google is your friend....

Read CAPR 52-19, find out who you squadron representative is, or if you don't have group CACs, then find out who your rep at Wing is, ask them whats going on.

See if your Wing CAC publishes its minutes and agendas, I know the FLWG CAC will allow interested cadets to sit in on and observe meetings, see if your wing does that too.

I spent two years as my squadron's rep to Group CAC, and it was very rewarding. If you have a Group CAC, and a squadron rep, see if you can become the alternate, you can sit in on meetings, add to the discussion, and vote in your Primary's absence.

[IceNine]

I was the ILWG Chairman,
And GLR Primary
Primary to ILWG
And various Alternate Positions
All in all I spent 6 years on CAC.

I found that the ability to be productive as a CAC is directly related to the Commander that you are advising, but more importantly the ability of your Senior Advisor to help you sell the products you are introducing.

What I mean by that is in a typical situation the Senior Advisor reports to the DCP, with a back door relationship to the Wing/CC.  If they use those 2 relationships and back the CAC accordingly you will have little issue getting things changed.

But it also has a correlation to the quality of the changes you are trying to make. 

Remember that CAC is an by its very title and ADVISORY board and you will simply be making suggestions to the senior staff for recommended changes within the cadet program

The one area we found that will immediately shoot you down and most likely affect your ability to influence change in the future is to even tamper with the idea of affecting change in the Senior program.  So I guess more directly don't discuss the way that Seniors interact with the cadet program and you should have little trouble getting necessary changes approved in due time.

It will be one of the more rewarding duties you ever do if you can keep your head up and push on despite shot down suggestions.

[TEAM SURGE]

I was the ILWG Chairman,
And GLR Primary
Primary to ILWG
And various Alternate Positions
All in all I spent 6 years on CAC.

I found that the ability to be productive as a CAC is directly related to the Commander that you are advising, but more importantly the ability of your Senior Advisor to help you sell the products you are introducing.

What I mean by that is in a typical situation the Senior Advisor reports to the DCP, with a back door relationship to the Wing/CC.  If they use those 2 relationships and back the CAC accordingly you will have little issue getting things changed.

But it also has a correlation to the quality of the changes you are trying to make. 

Remember that CAC is an by its very title and ADVISORY board and you will simply be making suggestions to the senior staff for recommended changes within the cadet program

The one area we found that will immediately shoot you down and most likely affect your ability to influence change in the future is to even tamper with the idea of affecting change in the Senior program.  So I guess more directly don't discuss the way that Seniors interact with the cadet program and you should have little trouble getting necessary changes approved in due time.

It will be one of the more rewarding duties you ever do if you can keep your head up and push on despite shot down suggestions.

Awesome! Thanks a lot. I read the section CAPR 52-19. I understand now.

[rightstuffpilot]

C/TSgt Messman,
Cadet Advisory Council is your best link between you and group, wing, region, or national staff (depending on the echelon).  Cadet Advisory Council has no official power to make changes to regulations, but often CAC decisions are highly considered by command staff.  Check out www.ncac.us .  If you have any more questions feel free to PM me.

[Camas]

Before worrying about CAC you might want to consider renewing your CAP membership. First things first!   

[TEAM SURGE]

Before worrying about CAC you might want to consider renewing your CAP membership. First things first!   

Good point! 

[CAP006]

This is C/2d Lt. Robert Dahms
Primary CAC rep. for MER-NC-023

I personally love the CAC and a word of addvice, I would learn as much as possible about CAP and it will help you enormously!

[TEAM SURGE]

This is C/2d Lt. Robert Dahms
Primary CAC rep. for MER-NC-023

I personally love the CAC and a word of addvice, I would learn as much as possible about CAP and it will help you enormously!

That is one thing I have been doing recently!

[Eclipse]

I personally love the CAC...

Why?

[DNall]

does it love you back?

I've worked with CAC off & on over a couple three year period. It's just difficult with our large geographic group to actually get people together on a regular enough basis to make anything happen.

Also, our CAC does some advising I guess, but mostly it plans/conducts Gp cadet activities/pgms.

[JayT]

does it love you back?

I've worked with CAC off & on over a couple three year period. It's just difficult with our large geographic group to actually get people together on a regular enough basis to make anything happen.

Also, our CAC does some advising I guess, but mostly it plans/conducts Gp cadet activities/pgms.

Then it's not doing it's job. I'll never understand why certain Group CP officers see appeal is getting a bunch of junior or middle type cadets together in a room to say "Plan a SAREX you're in charge of in a month."

[Eclipse]

does it love you back?

I've worked with CAC off & on over a couple three year period. It's just difficult with our large geographic group to actually get people together on a regular enough basis to make anything happen.

Also, our CAC does some advising I guess, but mostly it plans/conducts Gp cadet activities/pgms.

Then it's not doing it's job. I'll never understand why certain Group CP officers see appeal is getting a bunch of junior or middle type cadets together in a room to say "Plan a SAREX you're in charge of in a month."

And what is the CAC's job?  I ran this question a recently here and CS, and most responses were the internet equivalent of a shrug, quotes form the regs, or tales of WIWAC from 5-10 years ago.

I agree they should not be just an activity planning group.

[jimmydeanno]

And what is the CAC's job?  I ran this question a recently here and CS, and most responses were the internet equivalent of a shrug, quotes form the regs, or tales of WIWAC from 5-10 years ago.

The quotes from the regs specifically state what their "job" is and many of the responses did explain what they are supposed to do.

You appear to be stuck on judging the accomplishments/worth of the CAC based upon how many programs they impliment or how many NB agenda items they get passed.  Their job is to advise the commander at each respective level on things cadet related. 

So long as they are advising, they are doing their job.  They don't need to get bullet lists accomplished.

The CAC provides cadets an opportunity to voice their opinions about their program without getting tied down by some SM that hates cadets and won't pass on their ideas.  It also provides a venue for their ideas to be visible on a larger scale than normally possible. 

I think the larger problem is each respective commander not utilizing the CAC at all.  Either they don't value cadet's opinions or they just don't care to have to deal with it.  I think that is really what makes the CAC ineffective, not that they don't have anything to do.

SO, what do YOU THINK they should be doing and how does that differ from what the Cadet Advisory Council pamphlet states?

[Eclipse]

Advising on what?

Spending time, especially for cadets, on things that they can have no impact on is fruitless and the reason the CAC is on life support in most states.

What, literally, are they going to be discussing that could not be as simply addressed through their command chain? Bearing in mind that those chains are pretty short these days, and email, the web and other tech makes direct communications (too?) simple.  I would hazard a large chunk of our cadets text message their CC's with anything important, which is a far-cry from the days when reg updates were sent via snail mail, and the most immediate means of sharing information was the radio nets.

These days, even a 1/2-assed idea can be quickly discussed via email in 5 minutes, and people move on.

I actually don't care at all about what happens at the NCAC or RCAC.  I want to know how I sell this to a local cadet who already has plenty to do in CAP and elsewhere (the obvious, huge attraction of a length of rope on their shoulder notwithstanding).

No one has come up with a single, specific item that a unit or Group CAC could / should actually be discussing.  The kinds of things that people were raising were cadet AOBD's releasing airplanes - not exactly a hot issue in the average unit.

I am a Group CC who would love to have a functional CAC.  I try not to set people up for failure, so goals and mission of a project are important.  With arm twisting I can get people in the same room.

Then what?

(and bear in mind my Group hosts an encampment, two major cadet activities, fires hard on ES, AE & O-Flights, and despite all that, we have the same retention issues as the units with no planes or activities).

[arajca]

As a group commander, you should be tasking the CAC. An idea would be to solicite advise for improvements to existing cadet activites. If you have no taskings or don't really want to hear what the cadets think, don't have a CAC.

WIWAC, I was on the wing CAC. The wing commander made a big deal about getting it going and how valuable he felt having one would be. The CAC was made up of exclusively two and three diamond cadets, mostly 18-20 yo. After several meetings, we found out are "advice" was round filed almost as soon as it arrived, sometimes without being read. Really makes you feel wanted, doesn't it.

[Eclipse]

As a group commander, you should be tasking the CAC. An idea would be to solicit advise for improvements to existing cadet activities. If you have no taskings or don't really want to hear what the cadets think, don't have a CAC.

We have enough trouble just getting cadets to participate once, let alone "making things better", and advising a commander about activities you can't be bothered to participate in will be met with deaf ears.  I get cadets all the time
telling me to make my encampment "better" and "more fun", generally from cadets who know of it only by hearsay.  When I ask for specifics as to what would be "better" and "more fun", I generally get blank stares.

When I suggest their opinion would have more weight if they actually attended the event before suggesting changes, most of the time I get "I don't have time", or "I've already been to an encampment". Um...ok.

Having those same conversations with the same cadets from a structured body like a CAC isn't going to change the outcome much. (though I would like to think it could).

Issues I have as a group CC are addressed directly with participants, or I ask people who have an opinion.  By no means are there issues happening regularly enough, or generally that cadets could really influence, that require a regularly meeting body like a CAC, especially one that takes weeks to months just to schedule a meeting.

Mine is one of the more largest, most active and cohesive Groups in the wing, and there is little anyone has suggested the CAC could address.

So where does that leave the smaller, less coherent groups and units? Ones that don't participate in extra-unit activities to start with?

The answers I always get are "advise the commander", "discuss issues".  Like what, specifically?

No one yet has provided a single thing at a unit or group level that a CAC could address that they actually might get changed. (which doesn't even call into account the fact that a CAC can be fully operational and functional, provide coherent, detailed, progressive advice, and be totally ignored, which isn't going to keep the attention of cadets very long.)