Excited that I got my Wilson after 13 years of effort! Even more excited that Brig. Gen. Anderson, former National Commander, was going to present it to me! So...got a cool magnetic ribbon rack so it would lie nice and flat and look spiffy.

I'll now display how badly that turned out, in hopes that my embarrassment can be redeemed by helping all of you to avoid it.

IMG_7486 by Virginia Wing, Civil Air Patrol

Guess what just arrived today? My brand-new thin ribbon rack...WITH PINS! Never, ever again.

From a fellow Mount Vernon Squadron alum, rest easy, cadet.

Quote from: Dustoff17 on April 10, 2024, 01:15:06 AMOK, you're correct the OP didn't mention promotions. However, it's not a leap to put two and two together.

It actually is kind of a leap. The discussion at hand is one of transfers, not promotions. If a cadet moves across the country and transfers there membership, they are likely already well outside the 56 day minimum, making an additional few weeks (one time) to ensure that the member is a good fit with the squadron and vice versa is not going to have a significant impact on the cadet's trajectory. Now, we can certainly discuss whether or not this additional 3 weeks for transfers is necessary, but that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion topic and should be it's own thread.

QuoteJeders,

Little 'j'

Quoteyou're reading just as much into my post as you accuse me of doing.

I'm really not, I'm reading only as much as what has been written.

QuoteIt's pretty easy to see that, if a Cadet has to visit three times before they can join, this is approximately 21 days of "limbo". If an active Cadet is promoting on time (56) day minimum and a Commander delays by 21 days or adds these days to the "min" time, it affects promotion.

A one-time addition of 3 meetings, which may be less than 21 days and which also may be accomplished during short term visits before moving to the new area, for a cadet who is most likely already outside the 56 day minimum (which almost no cadet consistently hits) by weeks or months is not going to significantly affect their trajectory.

As for value to the topic at hand, there is none as this is a completely unrelated conversation. Since the original topic was already well concluded and since we are just driving further and further off topic, I'm going to go ahead and lock this for now.

I will say this again since it didn't seem to stick the first time.

The 56 days between cadet promotions is the MINIMUM, it is not a schedule.
And since it is not a schedule there is no way you can be late...
It is not a problem if a cadet only promotes three or four times a year.

Quote from: wacapgh on April 09, 2024, 08:46:41 PMI remember seeing a statement that activities are generally open to parents observing with exceptions such actual ES Missions, etc. Don't remember exactly where it is though.

Greg, CAPR 60-2, para 2.6.3.

Quote2.6.3.  Open Access. All CAP activities will be open to parental observation. Secret meetings are not permitted.  Commanders and project officers will make reasonable accommodations to allow parents open access during the duty day. However, some environments such as operational missions and flying cannot accommodate non-members. Some activities hosted on military installations and other third-party secure facilities offer only limited access to civilians. In such instances, parental access might be limited to certain speciallydesignated times.

OK, you're correct the OP didn't mention promotions. However, it's not a leap to put two and two together. Jeders, you're reading just as much into my post as you accuse me of doing.

I feel this DOES, in fact, add to the conversation.

To me this is simple math:
It's pretty easy to see that, if a Cadet has to visit three times before they can join, this is approximately 21 days of "limbo". If an active Cadet is promoting on time (56) day minimum and a Commander delays by 21 days or adds these days to the "min" time, it affects promotion.

If the OP hasn't considered this, they should. And this delay, and reason behind it, would need to be reflected on a feedback form.

Thank you for the response!

This parent was a Cadet Sponsor Member but quit because it has more (printed) restrictions than being an overly involved and controlling parent.

Based on this, no parents should join as a SM. As a parent, there are less restrictions on what you're allowed to do with Cadets! As long as there is ONE qualified, CPP-trained Senior Member, you could pretty much do what you want. And a squadron could run with only one, maybe two SMs!

This seems to be a huge, dangerous and gap in the Regs...

In a quick search:

39-2, 3.5. Cadet Sponsor Members.  Cadet sponsor member (CSM) is a membership subcategory established to allow parents, grandparents and guardians of current CAP cadets to assist their unit's cadet program by providing supervision, transportation, overnight chaperons and any other CADET related tasks deemed necessary and proper by the unit commander.

If they are not a member, 60-2 says:

2.6.11. Guests & Visitors.  Guests and visitors may interact with cadets only in the presence of an adult leader who has completed CPP screening and training per chapter 3. Local leaders will ensure that guests and visitors conduct themselves in an appropriate manner.

The other reference to parents :
173-4, 15.a. Parents, community leaders and CAP members may create booster clubs to support local units.  Such booster clubs must exist as entities wholly separate and apart from any CAP control and bear sole responsibility for compliance with local, state and federal laws.

I remember seeing a statement that activities are generally open to parents observing with exceptions such actual ES Missions, etc. Don't remember exactly where it is though.

Quote from: Dustoff17 on April 06, 2024, 09:23:58 PM

Quote from: PHall on April 06, 2024, 03:38:43 AMCadets promoting every 56 days in the minimum not a schedule and it's the squadron commander's call if the cadet is ready for their next promotion. Promotions, cadet or senior are not automatic.

I don't think anyone has argued the Commander HAS to promote in 56 days. However, if they choose not to, the CAPF 60-90 is required. My guess is that this wasn't done, otherwise this Cadet would know the reason for the 3-week, immature back-stabbing.

Can you please point to where the OP ever mentioned promotions?

QuoteOP, I suspect that if this Wing Commander micro-manages Cadet transfers to this level, there are WAY more issues in the Wing than we can discuss here.

You do realize that Paul and Hyena are not in the same squadron/wing, right? Paul was just giving his response from the perspective of a squadron commander, not saying that he was OPs gaining/losing squadron commander.

QuoteI know this thread is old but this has IG complaint all over it. And not a Wing complaint...one right up to NHQ!

While 3 months is far from a CAPTalk necro record, the site rules do still require that something of substance be added to the conversation. In this case, you immediately started trying to flame people for things that they literally never said. I feel like your posting is being heavily influenced by your personal experiences with CAP and that you may need to step away from the keyboard for a moment.

Thank you for your help. That was where most of my confusion came from. Vanguard, the national website, and the McChord rack builder all showing it but I couldn't find the regulation that allowed it. Thank you for your help figuring that out.