CAP vs. Coast Guard Aux

[Private Investigator]

^ Thank you Skipper   :clap:

If you have an interest in aviation, CAP has something for you. If your interest is boating then the CG Aux has something for you.

As a past time, hobby or whatever you should have fun.   

[Shuman 14]

Yes to have fun AND serve our Nation and our communities at the same time. 

[bflynn]

I've been to a CGAux meeting.  My impression of the major difference is that the Coast Guard appears to go out of the way to show it's appreciation for the CG auxiliary.  Sometimes in CAP, I get the impression that the Air Force considers us an inconvenience.

It is little things; access to base stores, removal of organization support for budget reasons, etc.  When taken together, they can give the impression that the Air Force doesn't really need us.  Maybe there was a time when that was different, but newer members didn't experience those times.

There is a tight alignment between the mission of the Coast Guard and the CGAux.  There is not a tight alignment between CAP and the mission of the Air Force.  The inclusion of cadets into CAP adds a dimension that affects what we can do as well.

[JayT]

I've been to a CGAux meeting.  My impression of the major difference is that the Coast Guard appears to go out of the way to show it's appreciation for the CG auxiliary.  Sometimes in CAP, I get the impression that the Air Force considers us an inconvenience.

It is little things; access to base stores, removal of organization support for budget reasons, etc.  When taken together, they can give the impression that the Air Force doesn't really need us.  Maybe there was a time when that was different, but newer members didn't experience those times.

There is a tight alignment between the mission of the Coast Guard and the CGAux.  There is not a tight alignment between CAP and the mission of the Air Force.  The inclusion of cadets into CAP adds a dimension that affects what we can do as well.

It's not the Air Forces job to 'go out of it's way to show it's appreciation.' There is a very tight alignment between CAP and the Air Force, it just may not be obvious at the local level. 

[Eclipse]

It's perfectly understandable that a personal perception becomes one's reality, but when making
sweeping statements about an organization's place in the universe, it's good to step further back
then your field of view.

The CGAux has a relatively narrow mission, and one which puts in direct contact with the CG, to a certain
extent much like local CERT teams and auxiliary police departments are in direct contact with their parent services
by design.  That proximity is the only thing that's allowed by the mission, however just because you happen to
be sitting in a boat next to a full-time CG guy, doesn't mean that other organizations are "less" connected or
appreciated by their parent services, or because "dad isn't in the room" we have less to do. 

When you venture our from the unit-level you start to see more and more USAF contact.

[Private Investigator]

It's perfectly understandable that a personal perception becomes one's reality, but when making
sweeping statements about an organization's place in the universe, it's good to step further back
then your field of view.

When you venture our from the unit-level you start to see more and more USAF contact.

Eclipse makes a great point. Members at the Squadron or even Group level do not interact with the USAF like we do on Wing Staff. Encampments, exercises, drill competitions, etc, etc. So if your ideal of what CAP is all about, is based just on your involvement with Petticoat Junction Squadron you are missing out on lots of other activities. Of course YMMV 

[bflynn]

Members at the Squadron or even Group level do not interact with the USAF like we do on Wing Staff. Encampments, exercises, drill competitions, etc, etc. So if your ideal of what CAP is all about, is based just on your involvement with Petticoat Junction Squadron you are missing out on lots of other activities. Of course YMMV 

Isn't it true that the squadron is the heart of CAP?

Hey, I'm just saying what I see.  It's not a popular thought, but I really hope that we aren't limited to only expressing the popular and approved thoughts. 

In 4 years I can count the different instances of Air Force involvement at our squadron level on one hand. 

We do a poor job at this.  The Air Force does a poor job at this.  Probably because we're not aligned with the Air Force mission to win battles in the air, space and cyberspace.

[Eclipse]

Isn't it true that the squadron is the heart of CAP?

Not in the context you're trying to use it, nor, actually in the way most members understand it.

[lordmonar]

Everyone laments....."We want more involvement with the USAF".....but they very seldom have any concrete ideas of what that involvement is.

What do you want from the USAF.....and what do you want to do for the USAF?

We can go ahead an respond with pipedreams if you want.....let's go whole hog here.

[SAREXinNY]

I think bflynn makes some very valid points.  These are very similar observations I have had myself.  It's great that we have a positive working relationship with USAF on the wing level, but 90% of us don't see or experience that.  Like bflynn said, I often feel like CAP is an "inconvenience"...or at least that is how it is perceived at the squadron level.  CAP and USAF missions are different.  Understandably we will not work hand-in-hand with them on a regular basis, but I do feel like I'm treated like the redheaded step child most of the time.

[EMT-83]

^ Specifically, how do you see your squadron as an inconvenience to the Air Force, and what specifically happened where you were treated as the red-headed stepchild? Especially most of the time.

[SAREXinNY]

I'll send you a PM. Some of the issues I'd rather not discuss publicly.

[Eclipse]

I'll send you a PM. Some of the issues I'd rather not discuss publicly.

Kinda takes the "discussion" out of a discussion group, doesn't it?

You're entitled to feel anyway you want, but that doesn't change the fact that the USAF has
little specific role to play at the unit level.

In fact, one of the things which is a constant mantra of CAP=USAF is that they are not
involved in normal operations, nor are they in the chain of command.  That doesn't leave much
for them to do at a weekly meeting.

[JayT]

I think bflynn makes some very valid points.  These are very similar observations I have had myself.  It's great that we have a positive working relationship with USAF on the wing level, but 90% of us don't see or experience that.  Like bflynn said, I often feel like CAP is an "inconvenience"...or at least that is how it is perceived at the squadron level.  CAP and USAF missions are different.  Understandably we will not work hand-in-hand with them on a regular basis, but I do feel like I'm treated like the redheaded step child most of the time.

If it seems like an 'inconvenience' it's because the Air Force's job is to fight and win wars on a global perspective, not to cater to the whims of it's volunteer auxiliary. What exactly makes you feel like the 'red headed step child?' What specially has happened that makes you felt as if you 'inconvenienced' an active unit?

Recently, on a fairly serious call I was assigned to, I was confused that several of the RMP's from the county police department (the highest paid in the country I believe) were marked as part of the police auxiliary. I don't know about other area's, but the auxiliary cops in my area are normally not seen outside of crowd control at parades and what not, so it was a surprise to see them on the scene of a V-Ped accident. I asked one of the cops assigned to my area who I deal with on a regular basis if the auxiliary guys were allowed to patrol and responded to aided jobs, and he gave me a blank look and an 'I don't really know.' He has his job to do, and they have theirs.  Even in an agency that numbers only twenty five hundred sworn and badged MOS, he wasn't entirely certain about what his agencies auxiliary really did. Multiple that by the size of the Air Force, and it's not hard to see why local units don't see routine interaction with USAF units.

[CAPAPRN]

I think the difference here in understanding is operational affiliations vs. administration affiliations. Now I realize that any suggestions will immediately be shot down as unworkable, but I do think that with all the grumbling about sequestration leading to fewer civilians to do non military jobs there is room for CAP to do albeit boring but essential missions. Ask the AF what they need- volunteering for unwanted missions is a waste of time. If they say they don't want us - so be it, but I hope that it is a conversation that is being had - out of my earshot.

[lordmonar]

Again....I ask....what specific jobs do you thing CAP can do for the USAF?

[Shuman 14]

Again....I ask....what specific jobs do you thing CAP can do for the USAF?

OK, here's a few from my experience in the USCGAux:

Cooking and other mess duty (servers, KPs, etc.)

Radio watchstanding

manning an information desk/booth

general clerical support to bases and stations

supporting a recruiting office

Academy pre-screening of applicants

tour guides of bases and stations during open houses

Those are just a few I believe would have direct correlation from USCGAux to USCG for CAP to USAF.

[JayT]

Cooking and other mess duty (servers, KPs, etc.)

Aren't those jobs normally done by either civilian contractors, or family members of servicemen?

Radio watchstanding

Where?

manning an information desk/booth

Where and what for?

general clerical support to bases and stations

Doesn't the Air Force have an entire career field for this? And can CAP provide this service steadily, everyday?

Academy pre-screening of applicants

What kind of pre-screening?

tour guides of bases and stations during open houses

Again, where and what for?

[Private Investigator]

I agree with JayT.

The tasks mentioned by shuman14 in some states are covered by the State Military Reserve or the State Guard (Basically the Auxilliary of the National Guard in some states). CAP has three missions, CP, ES and AE. Cooking and mess duty is not what we sign up for and it does happen at some of our activities but I am not doing it at Nellis AFB. 

[RiverAux]

The CGAux has a relatively narrow mission,

Actually, no.  If anything, the CG Aux has  WAY more missions than CAP does.  The three
missions of CAP are fairly self contained and don't really have a lot of secondary missions within them.  However, the Aux's primary mission (recreational boating safety) has at least half a dozen major secondary missions contained within it.  And the Aux's other primary mission (support the CG) has probably 3 dozen missions or more contained within it. 

If anything, the Aux has so many missions that it may not be focusing adequately on its primary purposes.