another radio to think about

[cap235629]

A repost of a message I got from the CAP_COMMUNICATIONS yahoo group that I thought might be of interest:

At the suggestion of a colleague, and apropos of whatever one might want
to read into this posting, let me provide a lead for a VHF radio that,
spectrally-speaking , will do both the CAP narrow-band and amateur
wideband job very nicely. No, it will not do P-25. It does, however,
have a real narrowband receiver and provide superior signal recovery
(unlike our favorite NB VHF radio in the inventory). The stability is
also acceptable with regard to NTIA. What it won't do, only because the
specs are not provided, is "comply" with certain receiver specifications
that, in the real world of operation, has proven not to amount to a hill
of beans..... The Kenwood TM-271A costs about $150, each, these days.
It will range, after a small, easy modification, from 138 MHz to 174 MHz
at a power out of approx. 60 watts. The TCXO is spec'ed at 2.5 ppm.
from -20 to +60 deg. C I have been informed that its design is that of
one of Kenwood's commercial models. I acknowledge that its not on the
"list" and can only be used "For Instructional and Demonstration
Purposes Only". Might be a nice back-up? I compared it, on the bench
(using _all_ the necessary, calibrated test equipment) with the EFJ.
Its arguably a better radio, albeit it does not do P-25. I thought some
might be interested.. .........

D. Platt
NATCAP 24

I too came to the same conclusion and have one of these radios. It makes a great liaison radio in areas where VHF dominates. The programming software is free and the programming cable can be found for around $20.00. It can also be field programmed without software. The only thing I have found that it won't do besides P25 is allow you to program different PL or DCS codes on the TX and RX if you access multiple repeaters on the same frequency pair. I keep this radio in my POV.

[Eclipse]

A non-compliant radio is of no value to CAP members.

[cap235629]

reread the post, it is compliant, just not on the list. Also take note of my follow on about a liaison radio.....

[a2capt]

I know, I know... I'm about to use the magic words "I've been told.. " but, here it is: I've been told that over and over again, by Wing and Region level comm folks, "if the radio is not on the list ... " so while it may spec out right, if it's not on the list, "you can't use it".

If they won't sign a form requesting a call sign with the serial #/make/model of that unit as the radio station equipment, then what good is it? (that meaning if someone can't get an initial call sign with it..) Is this the case elsewhere?

[Hawk200]

reread the post, it is compliant, just not on the list.

I guarantee that someone will tell you that since it is not on the list, it's not compliant. It doesn't matter if it actually is compliant, if it's not on the list, someone will tell you that you can't use it.

Stick with stuff on the list, you can't go wrong.

[Eclipse]

^ "Compliant" in a CAP context, means "approved for use", not just capable of operation within the specs.

Not on the list means you can't use it for CAP.

Period.

"Liaison radio?"  Seriously?

[cap235629]

^ "Compliant" in a CAP context, means "approved for use", not just capable of operation within the specs.

Not on the list means you can't use it for CAP.

Period.

"Liaison radio?"  Seriously?

Once again Eclipse you apply your experience CAP wide.  Liaison radios are very much a part of CAP outside of the Peoples Republic of Illinois.

You might want to note that the author of the original post is a member of the National Communications staff who actually tested the radio......

[arajca]

It will range, after a small, easy modification, from 138 MHz to 174 MHz
at a power out of approx. 60 watts.

That part makes it non-compliant. It's also one of the main reasons ham radios are not compliant - they require modification, which generally voids their FCC certification.

As for not being on the compliance list, it's easy to get a radio on the list. Get the technical specs from the manufacturer and send it to the NTC. They'll evaluate them and give you a decision. You don't even need to by the radio before hand.

Oh yea, NATCAP is not National HQ. HEADCAP is National. NATCAP is National Capitol Wing.

[N Harmon]

^ "Compliant" in a CAP context, means "approved for use", not just capable of operation within the specs.

Not on the list means you can't use it for CAP.

Period.

"Liaison radio?"  Seriously?

I don't think that is true.

10-1. Technical Requirements.   The following technical requirements apply to all CAP frequency assignments:

a. NTIA Compliance.  All radio equipment utilized by CAP on DoD-allocated spectrum must be compliant with NTIA requirements as listed in the current edition of the Manual of Regulations & Procedures for Federal Radio Frequency Management ("Redbook").  Copies of this manual may be downloaded from the NTIA website at: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/redbook/redbook.html 

The equipment compliance lists put out by NHQ should be taken as a courtesy to members who do not have the equipment or ability to determine if a certain radio can be used in CAP. Because NHQ can not test every single radio, it would be a mistake to consider this list an exhaustive compilation of radios compliant with NTIA standards. That some wing or region communications staff take it as such is their issue. Not every one does.

And seriously, liaison radios.

11-6. Liaison Radios.  Liaison radios are legal to be used in other radio services outside of CAP and are maintained in inventory for that purpose.  A small number of these radios, as determined by operational requirements, may be used for communication with other departments and agencies.  Such operations shall be used only on authorized frequencies to conduct official CAP business during Joint Operations, in accordance with a CAP and CAP-USAF approved Memorandum of Understanding.

[Major Lord]

My car be be "street legal compliant" but unless it has actually been registered, it is clearly not "street legal". The "Redbook" is authoritative, but not complete, as a radio may have been approved but not yet published. CAP's old copies are a guideline only. There are a couple of ham radios that come pretty close to being certifiable; but although I don't know much about horseshoes, I can vouch that with hand-grenades, "close" counts. Not so with NTIA approval. There are also radios that would certainly be acceptable, but the manufacturer did not choose to send NTIA verification, usually since analog radios are rapidly being replaced with what the radio industry devices offering "interoperability" a Government funded word meaning that they play well with other Agency's. The good news for us, is that as all the manufacturers start building radios that are NTIA and APCO compliant, more and more of them will hit the surplus market, and costs will drop. (unless of course the Government creates regulations that severely back-stab the industry, but what are the chances of that happening?) My only experience and qualifications for bringing these things up is that I am a Ham Radio Manufacturer, an FCC Commercial "GROL" + Radar licensee, an Amateur Extra Class licensee, and have a Senior rating in Comms, but I feel marginally qualified to comment on this.

Major Lord

[Eclipse]

Once again Eclipse you apply your experience CAP wide.  Liaison radios are very much a part of CAP outside of the Peoples Republic of Illinois.

You might want to note that the author of the original post is a member of the National Communications staff who actually tested the radio......

Here in the PRI we follows the rules, especially when they are clear.

Believe me, it was fulled noted that a member of the National Comm team was publicly suggesting that member use a non-compliant
radio for CAP use.

[Eclipse]

The equipment compliance lists put out by NHQ should be taken as a courtesy to members who do not have the equipment or ability to determine if a certain radio can be used in CAP. Because NHQ can not test every single radio, it would be a mistake to consider this list an exhaustive compilation of radios compliant with NTIA standards. That some wing or region communications staff take it as such is their issue. Not every one does.

The Compliant list is the only and final authoritative list of radios that may be licensed for CAP use.

Cite otherwise.

[SARJunkie]

for 2 years the 'Approved' List did not have the Motorola XTL series which is clearly 'compliant'.  Just because National did not update the list in forever does not mean its 'not compliant' 

99% of radios produced after 1996 are NTIA narrowband compliant!

[Major Lord]

You follow the rules in Illinois? Isn't Chicago still there?

Major Lord

[N Harmon]

The Compliant list is the only and final authoritative list of radios that may be licensed for CAP use.

Cite otherwise.

https://ntc.cap.af.mil/comm/qna.cfm?rec=21

Now you cite where it says radios must be "licensed" for CAP use, and region/wing supplements don't count.

[Spaceman3750]

The equipment compliance lists put out by NHQ should be taken as a courtesy to members who do not have the equipment or ability to determine if a certain radio can be used in CAP. Because NHQ can not test every single radio, it would be a mistake to consider this list an exhaustive compilation of radios compliant with NTIA standards. That some wing or region communications staff take it as such is their issue. Not every one does.

The Compliant list is the only and final authoritative list of radios that may be licensed for CAP use.

Cite otherwise.

All you have to do is email and ask about a radio being compliant. They'll look it up and say yes or no - I did this once and they were very nice and even took the time to help me understand why a radio I have is not compliant.

[Major Lord]

I am not aware of any requirement to "license" any particular radio for use in CAP, but if you want to sign the "lease" deal to use a radio to apply for your initial CAP Call Sign, you will have to list a bona fide radio....There is of course CAP Regs and Law that don't permit the use of impermissible radios, but that's a horse of a different color.

Major Lord

[IceNine]

The license he is talking about is also called a "station authorization" and is required for any device operating on CAP frequencies and I can only assume on any NTIA frequency.

And while it is silly not to ask for your particular radio to be added to the list it is not required that it be there.  It only has to meet the NTIA compliance requirements AND receive a station authorization which is issued by the wing or region DC.  It is up to the wing/region DC if they are willing to interpret NTIA compliance or simply default to "the list"

[Major Lord]

A Station Authorization and a Radio Authorization ( Form 76) authorizes and documents  members or units to operate CAP radios, but does not specifically limit the Station or member  to any particular (approved) radio. (see 100-1, 5-1 et seq)

Major Lord

[IceNine]

Station and member are not the same thing.

Station authorization is covered in 6-1.  5-1 covers members ability to operate a station.

[Major Lord]

Neither section requires licensing a particular radio. FYI, "et Seq" means " Et Sequens" referring to things following in sequence. Sorry for the Latin.

Major Lord