NEC Minutes - Draft - Nov 2009

[a2capt]

Action Agenda Items

1. Approval of May 2009 NEC Minutes             Col Chazell   Pg. 5
2. Conduct of Members Using Social Media        Col Carr      Pg. 6
3. Air Patrol Ribbon                            Col Hayden    Pg. 10
4. CAP Glider Program Review                    Col Chazell   Pg. 12
5. Glider Operations: Del. or Mod 60-1 Ch 2-3c  Col Carr      Pg. 15
6. Inspector General of the Year Award          Col Charles   Pg. 17
7. Member App. - Proof of True Identity         Col Hayden    Pg. 19
8. Service Date                                 Col Carr      Pg. 21
9. Amendment to CAPR 112-10                     Col Myrick    Pg. 24
10. Annual Conf. & Nat. Board Meeting for 2011  Col Chazell   Pg. 26
     May 2010 NEC meeting location                            Pg. 27
11. Travel Policy                               Col Chazell   Pg. 28


Other Items

12.   Advisor / Committee Reports

1. National Safety Officer                                    Pg. 30
2. Finance Committee Report                                   Pg. 30
3. Chaplain Report                                            Pg. 33
4. National Legal Officer's Report                            Pg. 33
5. National Controllers Report
    CAPR 60-1 Changes (Type I, Type II, Type II Incidents)    Pg. 34
6. Inspector General's Report                                 Pg. 35

13. Old Business                                              Pg. 36

14. New Business

1.  Awards/Decorations/Promotions             Maj Gen Courter Pg. 37
2.  Identification Cards                      Col Myrick      Pg. 37
3.  Elimination of the New Corporate Uniform                  Pg. 38
4.  Wear of Gray pants and Aviator shirt for Cadets over 18   Pg. 38
5.  Uniform Process Action team                               Pg. 38
6.  National Cadet Competition                                Pg. 40

Administrative Announcements                                  Pg. 42
See attached: (Converted to PDF for universal access)

[RADIOMAN015]

Thanks for the heads up, Yes the actual "draft" minutes can be found at:  http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/BoG_2008_Dec_A66FC958F5434.pdf

I especially like the discussions on making sure a member is who she/he says they are (positive ID) due to the possibility of terrorists infiltrating CAP, and every senior member having to get a picture ID card, possibly from a government issuing ID facility
Frankly for CAP senior members it's seem that one could readily ask to see a picture ID card issued by a government agency and just check off that a government picture ID card was checked on the application, and of course as they admit the finger print card (which again the conspiracy theory comes into play that someone might submit finger prints that isn't theirs) can also be used to verify status.

As far as the picture ID cards are concerned, CAP is already behind by about 1 1/2 months to issuing the plastic non photo ID cards.  Surely most members like taking time off from work to go to a government ID issuing facility (likely a military base/facility) just to get a picture ID card.  Why not mak it simple and place a statement on the non photo card to just ask for picture ID verification.  Most mlitary bases require that a drivers' license with picture be shown at the gate for entry anyways, unless one already has a DOD/military ID card.   
RM

[lordmonar]

RM,

One of the issue that CAP is looking at with a new ID card is that DHS is requiring photo IDs for flight line access and DoD is going to start locking down bases more.  By using the same standards for postive ID that the government uses for social security cards or pass ports we make our IDs that much more secure.

[PhoenixRisen]

and of course as they admit the finger print card (which again the conspiracy theory comes into play that someone might submit finger prints that isn't theirs) can also be used to verify status.

What would it take to get CAP onboard with LiveScan?  Does it cost anything for CAP itself?

[RADIOMAN015]

RM,

One of the issue that CAP is looking at with a new ID card is that DHS is requiring photo IDs for flight line access and DoD is going to start locking down bases more.  By using the same standards for postive ID that the government uses for social security cards or pass ports we make our IDs that much more secure.

Many commercial airports already have CAP pilots getting access badges (to include a card to open a gate) with their photo, and a CAP picture ID card will not change that requirement at these airports.
As far as CAP mission operational support personnel getting on military bases during certain security conditions, there are "other" methods to ensure appropriate access can be obtained.
RM

[alamrcn]

Thanks for the heads up, Yes the actual "draft" minutes can be found at:  http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/BoG_2008_Dec_A66FC958F5434.pdf

Oops, that's a link to the Board of Governers' November 2008 meeting. Here's the link to the National Executive Committee's November 2009 meeting...
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/NEC_2009_Nov_draft_A932C887B8DC0.pdf

Another oops...
The 2009 February (winter) National Board Meeting minutes link to the September 2009 (fall) draft. But the the file name is correct - hope someone backed it up


Since the National HQ website does dump off older meeting minutes, I have stored them on the Civil Air Patrol Patches website in the Document Library. So if you need to research anything from 2000-2003, that's were you can go...
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library.html#National Meeting Minutes

If anyone by chance has anything older than that on their hard drive, please let me know!

[flyguy06]

Thanks for the heads up, Yes the actual "draft" minutes can be found at:  http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/BoG_2008_Dec_A66FC958F5434.pdf

I especially like the discussions on making sure a member is who she/he says they are (positive ID) due to the possibility of terrorists infiltrating CAP, and every senior member having to get a picture ID card, possibly from a government issuing ID facility
Frankly for CAP senior members it's seem that one could readily ask to see a picture ID card issued by a government agency and just check off that a government picture ID card was checked on the application, and of course as they admit the finger print card (which again the conspiracy theory comes into play that someone might submit finger prints that isn't theirs) can also be used to verify status.

As far as the picture ID cards are concerned, CAP is already behind by about 1 1/2 months to issuing the plastic non photo ID cards.  Surely most members like taking time off from work to go to a government ID issuing facility (likely a military base/facility) just to get a picture ID card.  Why not mak it simple and place a statement on the non photo card to just ask for picture ID verification.  Most mlitary bases require that a drivers' license with picture be shown at the gate for entry anyways, unless one already has a DOD/military ID card.   
RM

Isn't a drivers license a government issued picture ID? Most senior members already have one of those right?

[Flying Pig]

So whats the "Air Patrol Ribbon" for?

[lordmonar]

So whats the "Air Patrol Ribbon" for?

DHS, Forest Fire Patrols, Coast Watch Patrols and the new SUAV missions.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Hopefully, they'll come up with a different name so as not to be confusing.

I can hear it now: "Why isn't it called the Civil Air Patrol Ribbon?"

Maybe some sort of "reconaissance service ribbon" or something.

[lordmonar]

Well....if I had my druthers....I would just ditch the SAR, O-ride, CAP Patrol, and CD ribbons and just adopt an Aerial Acheivement, Ground Achievement and Mission Support Achievement ribbons.

You fly 10 real missions (CD, SAR, DHS, O-ride, what ever) you get an Aerial Achievement.

You do 10 ground team missions you get the Ground Acheivement.

You do 10 missions at Mission Base you get the Mission Support Acheivement.

Simple...no fuss...logical rules....no stuipd props or whatever to clutter up the ribbon.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Well....if I had my druthers....I would just ditch the SAR, O-ride, CAP Patrol, and CD ribbons and just adopt an Aerial Acheivement, Ground Achievement and Mission Support Achievement ribbons.

You fly 10 real missions (CD, SAR, DHS, O-ride, what ever) you get an Aerial Achievement.

You do 10 ground team missions you get the Ground Acheivement.

You do 10 missions at Mission Base you get the Mission Support Acheivement.

Simple...no fuss...logical rules....no stuipd props or whatever to clutter up the ribbon.

The mission support ribbon would have a donut or coffee-cup clasp to denote further service.

Seriously, though, I don't understand why we have a cadet orientation pilot ribbon, or a counterdrug ribbon, or some of these others. I'm OK with a ribbon for special, non-search missions, and maybe that one ribbon could replace a bunch of these others.

We're getting into ribbon overload, to the point where they're starting to look alike. I am waiting for the cringe when some cadet points at my command service ribbon and asks where I did community service.

[lordmonar]

I am waiting for the cringe when some cadet points at my command service ribbon and asks where I did community service.

I tried to fix that last year by making the command badge permanant (worn under the name tag for alumni commanders)...but the NB shot it down. 

[James Shaw]

So whats the "Air Patrol Ribbon" for?

The specific criteria is being discussed. It is supposed to cover those missions that are not allready covered. It is intended to be the "final" type ribbon for flight related missions.

Hopefully, they'll come up with a different name so as not to be confusing.

I can hear it now: "Why isn't it called the Civil Air Patrol Ribbon?"

Maybe some sort of "reconaissance service ribbon" or something.

The name has allready been changed a couple of times.

We're getting into ribbon overload, to the point where they're starting to look alike. I am waiting for the cringe when some cadet points at my command service ribbon and asks where I did community service.

The design doesnt look like any other. I did the propsed design.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

So whats the "Air Patrol Ribbon" for?

The specific criteria is being discussed. It is supposed to cover those missions that are not allready covered. It is intended to be the "final" type ribbon for flight related missions.

Hopefully, they'll come up with a different name so as not to be confusing.
I can hear it now: "Why isn't it called the Civil Air Patrol Ribbon?"
Maybe some sort of "reconaissance service ribbon" or something.

The name has allready been changed a couple of times.

AHA! Good. I think...

We're getting into ribbon overload, to the point where they're starting to look alike. I am waiting for the cringe when some cadet points at my command service ribbon and asks where I did community service.

The design doesnt look like any other. I did the propsed design.

Put the community service and command service ribbons together, and the only difference I see is that the outer stripes flip. It's essentially the same pattern as the Red Service Ribbon, just with different colors — unless I'm missing something, Jim.

... or do you mean the design of the new "air patrol" ribbon? If so, to quote the folks over at Fark.com, this thread is useless without pictures.

By the way, your TIG to light colonel isn't unlike mine. I'm trying to get SOS out of the way in time.

[Cecil DP]

I am waiting for the cringe when some cadet points at my command service ribbon and asks where I did community service.

I tried to fix that last year by making the command badge permanant (worn under the name tag for alumni commanders)...but the NB shot it down. 

They didn't hesitate to make the NB and NEC badges permenant awards though.

[Flying Pig]

So we will have How many ribbons for flight?

Counter Drug Ribbon
Homeland Security Ribbon
Search and Rescue Ribbon w/ prop
Find Ribbon w/ prop

Now we need an "Air Patrol" ribbon for everything else not covered?

I think were good in the ribbon department.  I thought putting a silver prop on the achievement ribbon would be perfect for an "Aerial Achievement Medal."  One ribbon doubling for two.

[bosshawk]

It would be interesting to see an accounting of the corporate funds spent on this most recent NEC meeting in St. Louis.  It might also be interesting to figure out how much it cost for each agenda item.  Probably embarrass some folks.

Remember fellow CAP members: that is our dues money that is being spent on those meetings.

[James Shaw]

So we will have How many ribbons for flight?

Counter Drug Ribbon
Homeland Security Ribbon
Search and Rescue Ribbon w/ prop
Find Ribbon w/ prop

Now we need an "Air Patrol" ribbon for everything else not covered?

I think were good in the ribbon department.  I thought putting a silver prop on the achievement ribbon would be perfect for an "Aerial Achievement Medal."  One ribbon doubling for two.

I believe the idea was started by someone in the NER. I just do the design work I dont initiate these types of things.

[Major Carrales]

Did we really need another "ribbon" thread?

MIKE, how about moving the posts on that matter to the UNIFORM thread.