Enjoy Your Website

[Civilian_Pilot]

And this makes you different from us how exactly?

I am on the outside looking in.  You're not.  I see a bunch of immature attitudes (including you), grandstanding, power plays.  I also see unwillingness to accept any criticism.  This manifest itself in the rescue of a pilot with the dismissal of assets.  I also see your attitudes destroying public perception of what the CAP is.

Take my word on the last statement.  My view of the CAP has totally soured in the last 48 hours.

I've only got one answer for that statement, JOIN and work towards improving what you see as a fault. Armchair Quarterbacking via an internet forum does nothing to improve the situation.

I see.  Meanwhile here is the solution you suggested to me earlier:

Ok Miss Othmar, are you done yet?

If you're going to continue on this diatribe, tirade, harangue, you should go here, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/capinsights/ and join with the rest of the Namby Pamby's who like to go on and on <insert broken record sound here>  about all the faults in the CAP.

I'm sure Ray Hayden will gladly receive you.

Pretty professional.  I hope you are really proud of that statement when you wear your uniform next time.

I won't disagree with you there. There are some folks within our organization that believe they are 'the poo', but I can almost guarantee your going to find that just about ANYWHERE!

Yes but I have never seen this attitude so top to bottom in any other organization.

Right, after the countless lifesaving missions CAP has performed over the past 65 years, all the youth who have benefited from being a cadet and have moved on to become a Senior Member in our organization to be model citizens, lets just pull the plug now, end it all. That's logic for you.

If you did any research, CAP's budget for one year is a drop in the bucket compared with what the total budget the USAF spends, and the returns they receive on their investment in us is a deal no matter what you or anyone else says about us.

No logic for me is to look at the current situation which is a rotten apple.

You want to rest on the prior 65 years.  Like I said:  The original founders of CAP are rolling in their graves.

[A.Member]

Civilian_Pilot, as was mentioned we too are all taxpayers.  More importantly we are volunteers that put our lives on hold to provide a service to our country so that others may live.  On an average, we save 100 lives per year.  We are not some fly by night organization.  This is not a game to us.  It is extremely serious.  

You can read last year's report to Congress here:
http://www.cap.gov/documents/2006_CAP_Annual_Report_To_Congress_lorespdf.pdf

In another thread, you mentioned that you make your living flying.  So do many of us.  Our members are made up of current and former military, ATP, and GA pilots - many with logbooks that would make your head spin.   We are professionals.  

We understand that you're not happy with the results of the search so far.   However, at the same time you must also acknowledge that you've no real knowledge of what's involved in a SAR mission,  including the other agencies we've partnered with.  You do yourself a real disservice when you continue to criticize on issues to which you are uninformed. 

I'd encourage you to contact your local CAP squadron and get involved with the organization - we're always looking for skilled pilots.  Once you're gained a better understanding of the issues, then we'd love to hear more of your feedback.

[Civilian_Pilot]

It is becoming clear to me that in general CAP members have the idea planted in their head somehow they are above everyone.


I won't disagree with you there. There are some folks within our organization that believe they are 'the poo', but I can almost guarantee your going to find that just about ANYWHERE!

It seems that that is the case in that statement about being a taxpayer. All taxpayers pay a lot of salaries. Does this mean that the firefighters should put the fire out faster? Does this mean that since you pay the salaries of the police, you should not be reprimanded for breaking the law when a police officer pulls you over for speeding? I think not.

This is the most ridiculous statement I have read.

I haven't seen anyone (including myself) claim that by being a taxpayer that CAP should conduct faster, quicker, or make "certain people" special cases as you state above.

What I did state is that given the immature attitudes, fiefdoms, power grabs, poor leadership that the tax monies might be better spent by giving them to the military to perform the CAP role.

YOUR ORGANIZATION IS BROKE.  FIX IT.

Civilian_Pilot, why don't you take Lancer's advice? Join, and work in the efforts of correcting the faults of CAP? You seem to be concerned with how the organization is run, and that is the way some actual members feel. But if you don't like an organization, why get on a website that is crawling with its members, and bash it? I don't see the point.

OK I'll give you the point.  Read my prior statements.  I only arrived on this website 48 hours ago simply because I had an interest in how the Fossett search was going.

48 HOURS AGO.  It's ridiculous for you to be calling for me to jump in and fix things for you.  I find it odd that you are asking someone 48 hours into the situation to fix things for you.

It again emphasises how devoid of leadership this organization really is.

Nothing against you, but I'm just tired of everyone bashing CAP, but no one wants to help make it better. They just want to complain about the problems within the organization.

Sure, well until the membership can take criticism constructively you're doomed.

I didn't take the time to join to pummel CAP.  I came to have a discussion.  It's not me who can't handle it.  It's you.

[DrDave]

Something doesn't smell right here.

This person obviously has some sort of axe to grind with CAP.  Is this a former disgruntled member? 

This person obviously has way too much time on their hands, and you've got to ask "for what purpose"?

Moderators, can we lock this thread?  It's just not going anywhere and devolving into a personal tirade.

Dr. Dave

[Civilian_Pilot]

Something doesn't smell right here.

This person obviously has some sort of axe to grind with CAP.  Is this a former disgruntled member? 

This person obviously has way too much time on their hands, and you've got to ask "for what purpose"?

Moderators, can we lock this thread?  It's just not going anywhere and devolving into a personal tirade.

Dr. Dave

Tell you what Dr. Dave

I have no axe to grind.  I have only engaged in discussion with matters brought up by the membership.

I only wanted to discuss the helicopter incident and it has spriraled into this.

If you want me to fix the organization PM me and get me in contact with the local chapter and give me some introduction and credibility.

I'll do it.

If you lock the thread you once again bury your head into the sand.

[DrDave]

I am very happy to PM you to help you find a local chapter so you can see, perhaps, how much more CAP has to offer.

Dr. Dave

[Chaplaindon]

Fellow RV-er's ...

As a chaplain, and therein an officially designated "non-combattant" I beg you all for a truce ...

Let's admit it now, we've been bested by the best. German U-Boats couldn't get to CAP, but CivilianPilot has scored a direct "hit" on us all. It's bail-out time.

A collective cry of "uncle" (or, I suppose in our inclusive 21st Century culture, "aunt" as well). He's won.

His rhetoric and logic is unsurpassed and we're wholly unprepared to debate the natter further.

Let's simply return to our RV's and let Mr. Pilot go do what he's obviously qualified to do (unlike anyone Else, e.g. CAP and/or the Nevada ANG) ... let him go and FIND/SAVE Steve Fossett.

Further debate is both Quixotic (we'll never win, admit it, he's simply too smart for us)  and dangerous. It keeps the best of the best professional aviator from flying out to where Civilian Pilot KNOWS where Fossett is and saving him.

CAP, law enforcement, and the Air National Guard have nothing to bring to the table --obviously-- we/they should stand-down at once and yield the search area to CP. We're wasting time.

Besides, as soon as CP finds/saves Fossett he'll single-handedly fly to Waziristan and capture bin Laden, effect real campaign finance reform, then dive the ocean to point-out Atlantis all the while composing his dissertation on the exact type and location of extraterrestrial intelligence.

He's just to good; too smart; too prepared; and too rhetorically gifted for any of us amateurs to tangle with. Our Nation and our world is blessed to have him. Let us give thanks even as we yield the field.

Amen and amen.

[Skyray]

If you lock the thread you once again bury your head into the sand.

Either that, or remove it completely.  Suppressing criticism is not productive.  Responding to, and correcting the discrepancies addressed in criticism is productive.

[Pylon]

Gentlemen, just one note.  The attitudes back and forth here are certainly not enhancing the professional image of Civil Air Patrol members, and doesn't demonstrate much more courtesy than the CAP member in the original situation that generated this inquiry.  Some food for thought.

Since we already have several ongoing threads with productive, and constructive thoughts and ideas being shared on these types of issues, I would suggest participating in those if your true interest is in fixing perceived problems.   No productive and professional criticism is being suppressed.

Attempting to correct somebody's perception of CAP is great, but not if you do it through sarcastic comments or brow beating. 

[Civilian_Pilot]

Fellow RV-er's ...

As a chaplain, and therein an officially designated "non-combattant" I beg you all for a truce ...

Let's admit it now, we've been bested by the best. German U-Boats couldn't get to CAP, but CivilianPilot has scored a direct "hit" on us all. It's bail-out time.

A collective cry of "uncle" (or, I suppose in our inclusive 21st Century culture, "aunt" as well). He's won.

His rhetoric and logic is unsurpassed and we're wholly unprepared to debate the natter further.

Let's simply return to our RV's and let Mr. Pilot go do what he's obviously qualified to do (unlike anyone Else, e.g. CAP and/or the Nevada ANG) ... let him go and FIND/SAVE Steve Fossett.

Further debate is both Quixotic (we'll never win, admit it, he's simply too smart for us)  and dangerous. It keeps the best of the best professional aviator from flying out to where Civilian Pilot KNOWS where Fossett is and saving him.

CAP, law enforcement, and the Air National Guard have nothing to bring to the table --obviously-- we/they should stand-down at once and yield the search area to CP. We're wasting time.

Besides, as soon as CP finds/saves Fossett he'll single-handedly fly to Waziristan and capture bin Laden, effect real campaign finance reform, then dive the ocean to point-out Atlantis all the while composing his dissertation on the exact type and location of extraterrestrial intelligence.

He's just to good; too smart; too prepared; and too rhetorically gifted for any of us amateurs to tangle with. Our Nation and our world is blessed to have him. Let us give thanks even as we yield the field.

Amen and amen.

Got news for you Chaplain

I am not engaged in the search and rescue of Fossett.

Nor have I ever been engaged in the search and rescue of Fossett.

And I will not be engaged in the search and rescue of Fossett.

I do not have better ideas for the rescue of Fossett and I don't have any constructive idea how to enhance the search from Fossett.  (I am smart enough to know that by not using assetes such as Hughs 500 helicopters equipped with FLIR you really have no place being an Ops. Officer.)

In fact I am half the country away from the search and was in Europe for the first week of the search.

However--in the last 48 hours I have peeked through this website at the CAP organization and even you, going by the name "Chaplain", have showcased an arrogant attitude.

[Major Carrales]

However--in the last 48 hours I have peeked through this website at the CAP organization and even you, going by the name "Chaplain", have showcased an arrogant attitude.

If I may be so bold, if you are looking to this forum as a cross-section of the Civil Air Patrol, you have made an error. 

It has been pointed out before that a great many persons on this forum are likely not members, represent different...vastly different...positions about things from uniform issues to emergency services and/or may not represent CAP to the best of their ability.  This forum, and those like it, often times air the "dirty laundry" and "sinister sides of even the most insignificant detail of CAP life as if they are NATIONAL NEWS.

Civilian_Pilot, the following "I told you so" is not for you and I respectfully will address some of your issues below it.  Your comments and preceptions of the last 48 hours, however, are evidence to the reasoning for the scolding below. 

I have often warned against the so called "discussions" where "wild speculation" and "rumor" are vitriolically taken as "facts."  Also against, the meaningless discussions and even open fights that occur.  They are unbecoming.  The usual response to these warnings is normally the chant of "if you don't like it you don't have to read it."  That, however, is not the point at hand, the point is that this forum (although not an OFFICIAL CAP sanctioned forum) is looked at by people seeking info about CAP.

The nature of "INSTANT COURAGE" brought about by anonymous postings of blatantly vitriolic, agendistic and negative comments exasperates the situation. 

In short, there exists a PUBLIC AFFAIRS NIGHTMARE here.

Civilian_Pilot, I should now like to share with you the reason CAP is important...to me.  Maybe you can find a bit more solace here than the bitter dregs of vitriolic attack.  

There is no force more powerfully important, motivated and passionate than the heart of a volunteer...except maybe for a group fo volunteers united in some common goal.  A person that giveth their time for the benefit of their community, state and nation, in many ways, surpasses those that get paid.  How so?  Well, the motivation to serve the community is of a noble chord, more noble than profit. 

We of CAP take time from our families when we serve (albeit family and work must take precedent), not because we want to swagger and command, but because we want to have worth.  CAP is a unique form of service, and the fact that it is service to the community must never be forgotten or replaced with vainglorious theatrics.

No doubt some here today lashed out against you out of passion for CAP, taking you to be some sort of "trouble maker," questioning your motives and, this I believe most, because the nature of this forum is one of attack/defend.  I can tell you that even I am guilty of this.  I admit my faults.

There are times when I feel like I am under a salvo of attacks here...my ideas, my ideals and thing I highly value about.  These things, mocked and made sport of, that (more than once) have been trampled upon merely because some have seen me as "one of us" or "one of them."  These attitude I use to test my resolve and temper my policies for my unit. 

If a person was wrongfully treated at a SARex, a person who could have helped...then that is [darn]able, indeed.   I would likely have tried to explain that the procedure in place would not allow it and that some arrangement would have to be made.  I would also have have been genial, I might even "kill 'em with kindness" as St Anthony Zaccaria (Feast Day July 5...my birthday).  If his resource could not be used by CAP that day in that case, I would refer them to where they might be used.

I should point out that I cannot subscribe to your contention that being a TAX PAYER would give a person free range.  My unit get no direct funding from any other agency, including the USAF, for anything but O-Flights for Cadets, small fuel reimbursements (which most of our unit never take) and the occasional SARex of which we have to drive 200 miles to get to.  Thus, all we have accomplished since 2005, at least, has been with member funds.  Aside from that, my friend, I should think my status as a Tax payer would not get me into "Area 51" nor "a casual walk of the flightline at Lackland."

CAP Officers serve...those that get "power trips" need to remember what their status is.  They should Live to serve...get the privilege of wearing their nation's uniforms and are trusted with the world's largest civilian fleet of aircraft.  

Please, don't grow to hate CAP or become one of its "enemies" because you entertained unfortunate words here.  We don't want you to fix CAP...but we are stronger with you than without.

[Civilian_Pilot]

I should point out that I cannot subscribe to your contention that being a TAX PAYER would give a person free range.

This was not my contention so allow me to clarify.

Taxes are used for many things and we all pay them.  I want the monies to be spent wisely.  If they are going to be used to fund CAP, and CAP decides to use them to create a playground for arrogant attitudes I'd rather the money go to an organization that will utilize them for what they are appropriated for:  SEARCH AND RESCUE.

After you read the above please understand I am not trying to fuel the firestorm going on in the discussion--I am only trying to clarify that by my being a taxpayer does not imply giving me "free range" as you have stated above.

[Major Carrales]

Taxes are used for many things and we all pay them.  I want the monies to be spent wisely.  If they are going to be used to fund CAP, and CAP decides to use them to create a playground for arrogant attitudes I'd rather the money go to an organization that will utilize them for what they are appropriated for:  SEARCH AND RESCUE.

Sir, I am all for a good debate.

I will be the first to say that I detest the "FLIGHT CLUB" units that have existed in CAP.  I believe in the "Whole CAP approach," a movement where all persons join CAP to be of service to the advancement of its three missions.

Emergency Services, Areospace Education and Cadet Programs.  Our funding is minimal for an organization that extends Nation Wide and, frankly, it is seemlingly impossible for an organization like CAP to do what it does with volunteers and its level of funding.   But, the difference is made up in the passion to serve.

I think you have been done a great disservice in how CAP was presented to you.  I apologize on behalf of my Brother and Sister CAP Officers who have done that.

Those that abuse CAP, by treating it as their own personal "playground," "flight club," "dating service" or "fiefdom" have my disrespect and should be driven from the organization.  There is only room here for those wanting to serve the missions of CAP...all else (the rank, the command and so called power) in ancillary.

I would like to invite you to join CAP...a person of your beliefs would grealty serve as an internal watchdog...of the type that has a balancing effect on the organization as a whole.  Plus, I think you will have a lot of fun. 

[Lancer]

Attempting to correct somebody's perception of CAP is great, but not if you do it through sarcastic comments or brow beating. 

Mike, your right, I should have not lashed out at this person in the manner of which I did.

It's simply that, a lot of us, become incensed when a person, uninformed as they might be begins to attack and tear down something we all hold so dear and are passionate about.

Even your keen and insightful replies to this person fell on deaf ears for the most part. I guess even when you try to present things in a common sense and well thought out manner, critics will do nothing but to continue their 'fingers in the ears', belligerent rantings. It's obvious that there is no changing the perception of someone like this, so I'm moving on to green threads as you suggested.

Anyone who continues to try and dissuade this person after this is just blowing a lot of useless 'hot air'.

[Major Lord]

As it seems this dead-horse won't actually die, let me recapitulate my understanding of the events in question.

1) A brand-new anonymous poster presents a story which he apparently has no first hand knowledge of. We are told that a sheriff's department helicopter pilot is treated rudely. As there is only one actual complainant, as discovered in subsequent posts, we may either surmise that the story was related third hand by the complainant, or that the complainant created a new user-ID in order to be able to present unverifiable facts. Many members accept the post at face value, and knowing that CAP people are often rude, it has the ring of truth.

2) The key assertions of the facts brought forth by the primary complainant were as follows: Base personnel were rude to an officially requested asset to the search, that specific frequencies were not provided at his request, and that he was deterred from participating in the search by CAP personnel.

3) Subsequent information presented shows that the helicopter pilot in question flew a marked police helicopter, and identified himself as a police officer, officially requested by Nevada OES, in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain confidential information.

4) CAP does not accept volunteer pilots and assets from its own members, let alone civilian walk-ins, ( or fly-ins) however wonderful their apparent resources. ( and who would not want a well-equipped helicopter?)

5) Other parties with direct knowledge have refuted the initial posting, and its subsequent defense, and it now appears that the pilot in question was a private helicopter, unassigned or subject to the IC system, paid by the Hilton family to conduct independent air ops. Great! I hope if I am ever lost, my family and friends have the resources to pay umpteen million dollars for private pilots, especially those with actual LE and SAR experience. As far as I know there is no legal or ethical reason to deny volunteers or mercenaries the right to conduct their own search, as long as they don't endanger us. CAP does not have a charter to coordinate private aircraft in SAR OPs.

6) Suddenly, ANOTHER new anonymous user pops up in support of the "CAP is just so rude" school of thought. He allegedly represents the very parties the original poster thought might be offended: Members of the public, other aviators, etc. What a remarkable cooincidence!

7) This anonymous user seems to have the ability to look at the membership info, and in some vague way seems to threaten Chaplaindon, leading me to believe that he is a CAP member, perhaps even one in the same with the original poster.

8) Conclusions are premature, but it might be wise to consider that we are dealing with ONE disgruntled CAP member who blew smoke up our skirts about this whole alleged incident. It was easy to assume that one of our own my be guilty of some transgression (although bringing it up during actual Op's to undermine him was a major piece of chicken excrement) Would you give the same consideration to our people in the field that you would give to some anonymous E-Mail provocateurs?

Major Lord

Disabled smileys - MIKE

[Civilian_Pilot]

Attempting to correct somebody's perception of CAP is great, but not if you do it through sarcastic comments or brow beating. 

Mike, your right, I should have not lashed out at this person in the manner of which I did.

It's simply that, a lot of us, become incensed when a person, uninformed as they might be begins to attack and tear down something we all hold so dear and are passionate about.

Even your keen and insightful replies to this person fell on deaf ears for the most part. I guess even when you try to present things in a common sense and well thought out manner, critics will do nothing but to continue their 'fingers in the ears', belligerent rantings. It's obvious that there is no changing the perception of someone like this, so I'm moving on to green threads as you suggested.

Anyone who continues to try and dissuade this person after this is just blowing a lot of useless 'hot air'.

Yet again though you try backhanded browbeating because I called you out.

You have no idea what I think of the CAP members who actually respect the organization and represent it in a positive manner.

Even in this, you "last thought" on the subject is telling on your persona.

[SDF_Specialist]

It is becoming clear to me that in general CAP members have the idea planted in their head somehow they are above everyone.


I won't disagree with you there. There are some folks within our organization that believe they are 'the poo', but I can almost guarantee your going to find that just about ANYWHERE!

It seems that that is the case in that statement about being a taxpayer. All taxpayers pay a lot of salaries. Does this mean that the firefighters should put the fire out faster? Does this mean that since you pay the salaries of the police, you should not be reprimanded for breaking the law when a police officer pulls you over for speeding? I think not.

This is the most ridiculous statement I have read.

I haven't seen anyone (including myself) claim that by being a taxpayer that CAP should conduct faster, quicker, or make "certain people" special cases as you state above.

What I did state is that given the immature attitudes, fiefdoms, power grabs, poor leadership that the tax monies might be better spent by giving them to the military to perform the CAP role.

YOUR ORGANIZATION IS BROKE.  FIX IT.

Civilian_Pilot, why don't you take Lancer's advice? Join, and work in the efforts of correcting the faults of CAP? You seem to be concerned with how the organization is run, and that is the way some actual members feel. But if you don't like an organization, why get on a website that is crawling with its members, and bash it? I don't see the point.

OK I'll give you the point.  Read my prior statements.  I only arrived on this website 48 hours ago simply because I had an interest in how the Fossett search was going.

48 HOURS AGO.  It's ridiculous for you to be calling for me to jump in and fix things for you.  I find it odd that you are asking someone 48 hours into the situation to fix things for you.

It again emphasises how devoid of leadership this organization really is.

Nothing against you, but I'm just tired of everyone bashing CAP, but no one wants to help make it better. They just want to complain about the problems within the organization.

Sure, well until the membership can take criticism constructively you're doomed.

I didn't take the time to join to pummel CAP.  I came to have a discussion.  It's not me who can't handle it.  It's you.

I was not implying that you want us to search faster. I was saying that we are doing what we are trained to do. If you do not like your tax money helping an organization that helps other, by all means leave the country, and your tax money won't fund the organization that you have no clue about.

48 hours, and you think you have the right to complain about how the organization is run, while not being a dues paying member? I strongly encourage you sir to step back, and look at what you've started. If you wanted information about the Fossett search, read the news. Not what is posted by members of an organization that just happens to be involved in something that's peaked your interest.

We can take criticism. Criticism comes with dedication. Can't you see that? We are dedicated members, and you are criticizing it. If you don't think you could handle membership, express that. Don't express your misconceptions about CAP just because you jump on here, and read a few back threads.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do sir, but it is not the members of CAP who are ridiculous, it is you.

[alamrcn]

You were in Europe when this all started? And now your here? Maybe you are a spy, or even a terrorist who is trying to break the resolve of Civil Air Patrol members!!

Of course I am not actually serious.

But then again, I'm just an outsider looking in here. Don't really know you. But I guess I should be able to make an accurate assessment within the last 48 hours of not only yourself, but your friends and family too. Or maybe it is too easy for ALL of us to jump to conclusions here.

I'll bet it was the Helo pilot that was being a jerk, because we in CAP are ALL perfect. But that's just MY opinion on a stupid internet forum, not the actual official opinion of all 70,000 Civil Air Patrol members... or is it.

-Ace

BTW, what takes longer... composing the rebuttals or deciding what text to make bold? I know, unprofessional - dock my pay.

[Civilian_Pilot]

Well Major Lord I can clear up a lot of this for you.  A lot of the confusion is because the original post and questions over what happened were removed by the moderators.

As it seems this dead-horse won't actually die, let me recapitulate my understanding of the events in question.

1) A brand-new anonymous poster presents a story which he apparently has no first hand knowledge of. We are told that a sheriff's department helicopter pilot is treated rudely. As there is only one actual complainant, as discovered in subsequent posts, we may either surmise that the story was related third hand by the complainant, or that the complainant created a new user-ID in order to be able to present unverifiable facts. Many members accept the post at face value, and knowing that CAP people are often rude, it has the ring of truth.

I will state again:  I was in Europe doing my job and when I got home I did an internet search on Fossett ending up on this website.  In doing so I read this thread: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2967.0

This is the total sum information I have on the incident.

2) The key assertions of the facts brought forth by the primary complainant were as follows: Base personnel were rude to an officially requested asset to the search, that specific frequencies were not provided at his request, and that he was deterred from participating in the search by CAP personnel.

See above

3) Subsequent information presented shows that the helicopter pilot in question flew a marked police helicopter, and identified himself as a police officer, officially requested by Nevada OES, in an unsuccessful attempt to obtain confidential information.

Confidential Information?  Confidential to who?  The general public?  This man was asking to join the search; not freelance into it.

4) CAP does not accept volunteer pilots and assets from its own members, let alone civilian walk-ins, ( or fly-ins) however wonderful their apparent resources. ( and who would not want a well-equipped helicopter?)

Well this is a mistake in this search and rescue and every search and rescue.  Understand:  I am not talking about having to use every walk-in but when they can operate and offer superior equipment than the CAP has running them off is a real mistake.

5) Other parties with direct knowledge have refuted the initial posting, and its subsequent defense, and it now appears that the pilot in question was a private helicopter, unassigned or subject to the IC system, paid by the Hilton family to conduct independent air ops. Great! I hope if I am ever lost, my family and friends have the resources to pay umpteen million dollars for private pilots, especially those with actual LE and SAR experience. As far as I know there is no legal or ethical reason to deny volunteers or mercenaries the right to conduct their own search, as long as they don't endanger us. CAP does not have a charter to coordinate private aircraft in SAR Ops.

I'll tell you what, if you're that worried and have such an "endangering us" attitude maybe CAP isn't for you.  If I were lost I would have absolutely no problem with a private helicopter equipped with FLIR being brought into a search.

I also want to remind you that in a search time is critical.  This search is now two weeks old.

6) Suddenly, ANOTHER new anonymous user pops up in support of the "CAP is just so rude" school of thought. He allegedly represents the very parties the original poster thought might be offended: Members of the public, other aviators, etc. What a remarkable cooincidence!

No idea what you are talking about but I do want to point out that the CAP is in a highly public search.  It's on CNN.  As such you would think that ALL CAP members would recognize that people like myself, people who never really knew of the CAP will be visiting the organization through the papers, internet, television.  And they will walk away with a perception of the organization.

Some will find this website like myself and from an opinion.

7) This anonymous user seems to have the ability to look at the membership info, and in some vague way seems to threaten Chaplaindon, leading me to believe that he is a CAP member, perhaps even one in the same with the original poster.

I have never been a member of CAP or participated in any CAP activity although I have seen them around airshows etc...

8 ) Conclusions are premature, but it might be wise to consider that we are dealing with ONE disgruntled CAP member who blew smoke up our skirts about this whole alleged incident. It was easy to assume that one of our own my be guilty of some transgression (although bringing it up during actual Op's to undermine him was a major piece of chicken excrement) Would you give the same consideration to our people in the field that you would give to some anonymous E-Mail provocateurs?

Major Lord

Nope Major, I'll tell you who you are dealing with:

Nothing but a Civilian Pilot with the following.

--B.S. Aerospace Engineering

--MEL Airline Transport Pilot

--SEL Commercial/Instrument

--F/E Turbojet

--Type Ratings:  SA-227 B-737 B-727 MD-11

--CFI CFII MEI

I have operated in most countries of the world so I know a little more about emergency , intercept, international operations than the average person or even pilot.

Again my only interest was seeing the latest information on Fossett.

I hope this clears it up for you.

[Civilian_Pilot]

You were in Europe when this all started? And now your here? Maybe you are a spy, or even a terrorist who is trying to break the resolve of Civil Air Patrol members!!

Of course I am not actually serious.

But then again, I'm just an outsider looking in here. Don't really know you. But I guess I should be able to make an accurate assessment within the last 48 hours of not only yourself, but your friends and family too. Or maybe it is too easy for ALL of us to jump to conclusions here.

I'll bet it was the Helo pilot that was being a jerk, because we in CAP are ALL perfect. But that's just MY opinion on a stupid internet forum, not the actual official opinion of all 70,000 Civil Air Patrol members... or is it.

-Ace

BTW, what takes longer... composing the rebuttals or deciding what text to make bold? I know, unprofessional - dock my pay.

Please see above^^^