Here is one to ponder...Would you burn your CAP uniform?

[Nomex Maximus]

WOLVERINES!!!!

I don't get it. And I'm from Michigan.

[MIKE]

Watch Red Dawn

[Major Carrales]

The point of the matter is not "wearing CAP uniforms" as an insurgency, but rather merely having one in your closet.

Supposed I left my uniform at my parent's home, then they got raided and summarily executed my dad as a sympathizer?

Or, suppose you are a CAP member and just have one.  Would you destroy it?  Hide it?

I don't think anyone would blatantly wear it in public unless you were trying to be some sort of sacrifice.

Let's take it a step further...let's leave out the UNIFORM model.  How about merely CAP membership.  Could that get you placed in a camp?

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

WOLVERINES!!!!

I don't get it. And I'm from Michigan.

Thats a quote from "Red Dawn"  a movie about teenagers in Colorado fighting an invasion of Cubans backed by Russians.  "Wolverines" was the name of their football team and became their battle cry.   Totally unrealistic, but it was a great movie in showing patriotism and classic American response to tyranny.  It was an in your face throw back (similar to the movies of the 40's and 50's), against the peace movement in this country in the 70's and 80's.  

The Hollywood establishment was not pleased with this movie.  Since it also was against gun control, as it showed how the invading forces went to the gun stores and went through the files to find out who owned guns and then took them prisoner or killed them.   The movie showed how a few kids with hunting rifles could capture better weapons from the enemy and become a small but powerful insurgent force.

[Walkman]

How about merely CAP membership.  Could that get you placed in a camp?

Most likely, IMO. The invaders would see "US AIR FORCE AUXILIARY" and categorize us as a military unit. They aren't going to know that we're a ES unit, just that we have an affiliation.

If I'm in occupied territory, the first thing I'm doing is getting my family out to safety. I'm thinking in the rush that CAP stuff will just stay in the closet while I only the essentials are packed. Once they are safe though, I'd try to help wherever I can, in or out of uniform. If I were able to join a resistance unit, I'd wear the BDUs.

[Walkman]

I don't get it. And I'm from Michigan.

Hey, me too (originally)

Thats a quote from "Red Dawn"  a movie about teenagers in Colorado fighting an invasion of Cubans backed by Russians.  "Wolverines" was the name of their football team and became their battle cry.   Totally unrealistic, but it was a great movie in showing patriotism and classic American response to tyranny.  It was an in your face throw back (similar to the movies of the 40's and 50's), against the peace movement in this country in the 70's and 80's.   

The Hollywood establishment was not pleased with this movie.  Since it also was against gun control, as it showed how the invading forces went to the gun stores and went through the files to find out who owned guns and then took them prisoner or killed them.   The movie showed how a few kids with hunting rifles could capture better weapons from the enemy and become a small but powerful insurgent force.

My buddies and TOTALLY were into that movie!

[Major Carrales]

Thats a quote from "Red Dawn"  a movie about teenagers in Colorado fighting an invasion of Cubans backed by Russians.  "Wolverines" was the name of their football team and became their battle cry.   Totally unrealistic, but it was a great movie in showing patriotism and classic American response to tyranny.  It was an in your face throw back (similar to the movies of the 40's and 50's), against the peace movement in this country in the 70's and 80's.  

The Hollywood establishment was not pleased with this movie.  Since it also was against gun control, as it showed how the invading forces went to the gun stores and went through the files to find out who owned guns and then took them prisoner or killed them.   The movie showed how a few kids with hunting rifles could capture better weapons from the enemy and become a small but powerful insurgent force.

And this was not the point of the thread, really.  I had been reading about how former members of the Hitler Youth had been treated in post war Germany...since joining was compulsory.  Pope Benedict XVI was a member of the Hitler Youth.

I then looked over at my service coat, back from the cleaners and duded up with CAP insignia, which was haning behind the door and wondered what I might do if we had been invaded.   I thought I would see how others would feel about it.

I don't really think it would/could happen...but we live in a world that is 90% empty rethoric and 10% smoke and mirrors.  When we say we love our nation...that we would defend it; I wonder what it would be like it we were defending it AT HOME (any and all of us, the best and worst).  Or if we lost it all, at least for a while, to what levels we might rise...or sink.

[Nomex Maximus]

I don't get it. And I'm from Michigan.

Hey, me too (originally)

Thats a quote from "Red Dawn"  a movie about teenagers in Colorado fighting an invasion of Cubans backed by Russians.  "Wolverines" was the name of their football team and became their battle cry.   Totally unrealistic, but it was a great movie in showing patriotism and classic American response to tyranny.  It was an in your face throw back (similar to the movies of the 40's and 50's), against the peace movement in this country in the 70's and 80's.   

The Hollywood establishment was not pleased with this movie.  Since it also was against gun control, as it showed how the invading forces went to the gun stores and went through the files to find out who owned guns and then took them prisoner or killed them.   The movie showed how a few kids with hunting rifles could capture better weapons from the enemy and become a small but powerful insurgent force.

My buddies and TOTALLY were into that movie!

Now, I think the movie that our Cadets should really be made to watch is "Taps".

[BlackKnight]

Seriously folks, stop smoking crack.  It's bad for your health.

This thread needs a poll.         And a drug test.

[Walkman]

When we say we love our nation...that we would defend it; I wonder what it would be like it we were defending it AT HOME (any and all of us, the best and worst).  Or if we lost it all, at least for a while, to what levels we might rise...or sink.

In all honesty, I think a large chunk of Americans would do something to help. Today being the 9/11 anniversary, look back on how patriotically the nation reacted. We went into Afganistan with pretty much full support from the people. Even my former hippy and very liberal parents had US Flags all over the place. We may all have our political differences, but there seems to be something in the American psyche that we stick together in tragedies. People from Washington came to help N'awlins rebuild. Deep down, there is a bond. Yeah, there are some who would turn tail and run, but did you hear anyone talk that way on Sept. 12th?

[pixelwonk]

Hey, he said hitler.  Can we Godwin this puppy?

[♠SARKID♠]

I had been reading about how former members of the Hitler Youth had been treated in post war Germany...since joining was compulsory.  Pope Benedict XVI was a member of the Hitler Youth.

***BAD ANALOGY ALERT!  BAD ANALOGY ALERT!! DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! DANGER!***

Hey, he said hitler.  Can we Godwin this puppy?

I think so tedda.

[Nomex Maximus]

Hey, he said hitler.  Can we Godwin this puppy?

"CAN WE GODWIN THIS PUPPY?"

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

If you wish to participate in these discussions please speak English, it is the official language of CAP.

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

In all honesty, I think a large chunk of Americans would do something to help. Today being the 9/11 anniversary, look back on how patriotically the nation reacted. We went into Afganistan with pretty much full support from the people. Even my former hippy and very liberal parents had US Flags all over the place. We may all have our political differences, but there seems to be something in the American psyche that we stick together in tragedies. People from Washington came to help N'awlins rebuild. Deep down, there is a bond. Yeah, there are some who would turn tail and run, but did you hear anyone talk that way on Sept. 12th?

Unfortunately, you make my point.   After 9/11 everyone seemed gung ho.  However, Americans today have no staying power.   When the war wasn't over in a matter of months the complaints started.   Even though this war has the lowest casualty rates in history, considering the time spent in theatre, people say the toll is too high and we must get out.   If this attitude had been prevalent in WWII we would be speaking German or Japanese today.

[Nomex Maximus]

Unfortunately, you make my point.   After 9/11 everyone seemed gung ho.  However, Americans today have no staying power.   When the war wasn't over in a matter of months the complaints started.   Even though this war has the lowest casualty rates in history, considering the time spent in theatre, people say the toll is too high and we must get out.   If this attitude had been prevalent in WWII we would be speaking German or Japanese today.

OK, I don't mean to get political here and I don't want to ruffle any feathers. I believe the issue right now has much more to do with the mis-management of the war than anything else. I voted for the present CIC but he has made a massive mess of the "War On Terror". If the Iraq war had been better thought out and executed, I think our youth would be much more willing to go and fight it.

How about some cadets chime in here?

[pixelwonk]

Hey, he said hitler.  Can we Godwin this puppy?

"CAN WE GODWIN THIS PUPPY?"

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

No, you may not "Godwin this puppy". If you do so we will report you to the appropriate animal anti-cruely authorities.  And if you wish to participate in these discussions please speak English, it is the official language of CAP.

meh. n00bs.
mouth feeding them one thread at a time.

[Walkman]

How about some cadets chime in here?

I think this speaks a bit to the topic, regarding those who would serve and cadets. This is the article our local paper just ran about our cadets. They were doing a story about how the ROTC program at Utah State is growing when others are not, and asked about getting the thoughts of some of our cadets that had plans to serve in the military (my son Gabriel & I are quoted at the end  ).

Civil Air Patrol gives teens a taste of military life

By Aaron Falk staff writer

Brayden Mickelson stands in front of his unit and gives an order.

"Yes, first sergeant!" the cadets say in unison to their 15-year-old leader.

In a time when an unpopular war has been blamed for some branches of the armed services missing their recruiting goals, Mickelson and the rest of the teenagers in the Civil Air Patrol, an auxiliary of the Air Force, meet weekly. Though CAP does not require any military service commitment, most in the group say they want to enlist.

"Since I was 4, I knew this was something I was supposed to do," said Ben Christensen, a good-natured kid with a buzz cut and a toothy grin.
A senior at Mountain Crest High School, Christensen is the son of a Vietnam veteran and will turn 18 in January. He plans on enlisting, "going infantry," as soon as he graduates next spring.

"My parents want me to go to college, but this just feels like something I have to do," he said. "I'm not very good at school."
Most of his friends also plan on enlisting, he said. Still he knows that's not the norm for kids his age.

"I don't think it's for me," said Stefani Lewis, a CAP cadet with a brother serving in Iraq. "I don't think I would enjoy it."

Joe Phippen, 21, is an adult CAP leader who attends Utah State University. Because the university does not have a Naval ROTC, Phippen plans on attending officer school when he graduates.

While he's seen more yellow ribbons, Phippen said he's seen a decline in interest in military service among people his age.
"It seems that everybody likes the military for somebody else to do," he said. "I don't really mind that. It keeps out people who don't want to be there. I wouldn't want to be next to a draftee. I would want to be there with someone else who wants to be there."

While the CAP cadets are young, they said they still have an understanding of the dangers of war.

"I'm still in that I think I'm invincible stage," Christensen said. "But if I don't do it, I can't ask someone else to do it for me."

"It makes you kind of nervous," 13-year-old Gabriel Walker said. "You have that risk of being killed, but I want to serve my country."

Walker said he wants to be a pilot in the Air Force, a thought that makes his father smile.

"I'd be very proud of him if he wants to serve," Kristian Walker said. "I think it says a lot about the maturity of these kids. Military service is service. It's a selfless thing to do."

[Nomex Maximus]

Hey, he said hitler.  Can we Godwin this puppy?

"CAN WE GODWIN THIS PUPPY?"

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

No, you may not "Godwin this puppy". If you do so we will report you to the appropriate animal anti-cruely authorities.  And if you wish to participate in these discussions please speak English, it is the official language of CAP.

meh. n00bs.
mouth feeding them one thread at a time.

OK, from the Wikipedia article itself:

"...The rule does not make any statement as to whether any particular reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that one arising is increasingly probable..."

I assert that the use of the reference was in fact valid for the discussion.

[Pylon]

Seriously, you folks come up with a topic about insurgency, invasion of the U.S., and future wars on terror and you relate it back to what?  The friggin' CAP uniform.



This obsession with the CAP uniform needs to end.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Well, I don't know anyone named Godwin, and I don't know about any puppy, but...

In the 60's there WAS some resistance to starting a CAP glider-pilot training program because of the inevitable comparisons to the Hitler Youth programs.  For those who have no passion for history, the Hitler Youth trained teens in gliders, then transitioned them to powered aircraft when they subsequently joined the Luftwaffe.  The second-generation German jet fighter, the Volksjager, was designed for a direct transition from gliders into the jet fighter so the Hitler Youth guys could get into the fight before the Bunker got stormed.

I popped into the discussions about using CAP for various homeland defense missions, suggesting proceeding carefully.  We do not want to crerate the image that the defense of the US is down to "Old men and Hitler Youth."