Fitting CAP Funeral Formalities

[afgeo4]

A couple of points...

Funeral detail is part of the CAP Honor Guard program and the Honor Guard Academy spends a lot of time on that, so yes, some cadets do know how to do it properly. In fact, in many communities we may be the only Honor Guard to provide military veterans' funerals.

I believe the CAP-USAF Liaison Officer may be contacted to arrange for a local AF Base Honor Guard to perform a funeral detail for a CAP member who has died on duty.

In NYC and its surrounding area (Long Island, Upstate NY, NJ, CT), police funerals are attended with officers wearing dress uniforms, not patrol uniforms, whenever possible. Same goes for FDNY. If you're an ESU officer, the family doesn't want to see M-4s carried by people in full battle rattle with tactical vehicles. They want honorable and respectable dress. You have your will and testament to tell people what you want at your funeral.

Fly-over... I think it's a great idea if one aircraft does it. We barely have money for training flights, right along 4 aircraft. You said 3 aircraft from surrounding states? What does Alaska and Hawaii do?

[Nomex Maximus]

BDU's/Utility uniforms/Flight suits are NOT appropriate for a funeral ever. ONLY Service uniform/corporate or civilian attire.

If that's your opinion then fine. But I tend to think that the military has a different view of what the BDU looks like than the civilian population think it looks like. If I were at a military function (and CAP is not the real military) I would want the soldiers present to look like they were ready to do a job. But that's just me. I think I have explained my reasoning for this enough.

--Nomex

[Nomex Maximus]

A couple of points...

. . .

Fly-over... I think it's a great idea if one aircraft does it. We barely have money for training flights, right along 4 aircraft. You said 3 aircraft from surrounding states? What does Alaska and Hawaii do?

I suppose then that it would be completely out of the question to suggest that CAP pay for the funeralsof those who fall in the line of duty...

...really it shouldn't be.

--Nomex

[afgeo4]

I don't think it's out of the question. I think they should pay. I just don't think they should spare no expense since the budget is fairly fixed and comes out of our annual dues. If we spend hundreds of thousands on funerals then we don't spend it on our cadets or modernization of equipment or training sorties... it's got to come from somewhere.

Should they pay for funerals? I think yes. Should they go all out for them? I think no.

[Nomex Maximus]

I don't think it's out of the question. I think they should pay. I just don't think they should spare no expense since the budget is fairly fixed and comes out of our annual dues. If we spend hundreds of thousands on funerals then we don't spend it on our cadets or modernization of equipment or training sorties... it's got to come from somewhere.

Should they pay for funerals? I think yes. Should they go all out for them? I think no.

I don't think we are talking about going all out. Having the planes come from other wings is a nice to have not a necessity. And no one really said anything about it being an AF funded mission. Myself I'd be happy to fork over the two hours of flying time to help out. That's what CAP is all about. And in any event, we aren't talking about dozens and hundreds of funerals here.

In terms of the Federal Government's budget this is really all a very small thing. Get your local congressman to earmark some funding.

--Nomex

[Flying Pig]

 Your misrepresenting by saying that you wore your police patrol uniform to compare them with BDU's.  Because in LE the patrol unifrom is usually the ONLY uniform we have.  I certainly hope you didnt show up in a short sleeve shirt and open collar? Ive been to 10+ police funerals and have ALWAYS worn Class A's.  (Long sleeve shirt with tie and smokey.)  One was a SWAT member and his team mates didnt wear their SWAT Gear.  One was a Sheriff Pilot who was killed, nobody wore their fight suits.  Ive also been to several military funerals and EVERYONE was in Dress Blues.  The funeral is for the family, not the deceased.  

We have done funerals with our LE helicopters and fixed wing and the missing man formation looks just fine.  As far as changing all of the tail numbers, and bringing in aircraft from other wings.....Nobody is going to even notice nor are they going to care.

[Skyray]

Yes, I am well aware of the missing man formation. That would look great with jets, but we don't fly jets. We fly Cessnas and we fly searches so I think CAP should get things done their way.

I have seen it done four or five times with Cessnas, and it still looks pretty awesome.  The last time was when the Auxiliary put a Piper in Florida Bay due to spatial disorientation in a low time instrument pilot with the result of two deceased in February 2001.

[Grumpy]

Your misrepresenting by saying that you wore your police patrol uniform to compare them with BDU's.  Because in LE the patrol unifrom is usually the ONLY uniform we have.  I certainly hope you didnt show up in a short sleeve shirt and open collar? Ive been to 10+ police funerals and have ALWAYS worn Class A's.  (Long sleeve shirt with tie and smokey.)  One was a SWAT member and his team mates didnt wear their SWAT Gear.  One was a Sheriff Pilot who was killed, nobody wore their fight suits.  Ive also been to several military funerals and EVERYONE was in Dress Blues.  The funeral is for the family, not the deceased.  

We have done funerals with our LE helicopters and fixed wing and the missing man formation looks just fine.  As far as changing all of the tail numbers, and bringing in aircraft from other wings.....Nobody is going to even notice nor are they going to care.

Good obs

[Nomex Maximus]

Your misrepresenting by saying that you wore your police patrol uniform to compare them with BDU's.  Because in LE the patrol unifrom is usually the ONLY uniform we have.  I certainly hope you didnt show up in a short sleeve shirt and open collar? Ive been to 10+ police funerals and have ALWAYS worn Class A's.  (Long sleeve shirt with tie and smokey.)  One was a SWAT member and his team mates didnt wear their SWAT Gear.  One was a Sheriff Pilot who was killed, nobody wore their fight suits.  Ive also been to several military funerals and EVERYONE was in Dress Blues.  The funeral is for the family, not the deceased.  

We have done funerals with our LE helicopters and fixed wing and the missing man formation looks just fine.  As far as changing all of the tail numbers, and bringing in aircraft from other wings.....Nobody is going to even notice nor are they going to care.

I don't remember what I wore back then but it would have been either a long sleeve patrol uniform or a short sleeve uniform. Probably short sleeve, as it was summer when the accident occurred. Certainly the same style as what I was wearing when I investigated the man's fatal traffic accident. I don't remember anyone else (police officers) wearing anything out of the ordinary - and there were hundreds of us there. This was in the Chicago area during the 80's.

I am sure what I have suggested has never been done before. So arguing that because it hasn't been done before doesn't really seem to me to be valid. If in fact some people don't think it's a good idea, well, that's why we have these forums  - to discuss and share ideas.  

[Flying Pig]

You guys must do it different in at CPD.  You'd be looked on as a slug if you showed up in anything but your Depts version of full Class A's here in Ca, regardless of the weather.

[SeattleSarge]

Having attended two law enforcement funerals, I would suggest that style as a good example.

Members who are Veterans should certainly have the military honors included as well (flag and presentation).

The formation flying over the gravesite makes me concerned...  Wouldn't want to have a mid-air at all, but especially in the middle of a funeral ceremony.

My two cents...

-SeattleSarge

[Skyray]

The formation flying over the gravesite makes me concerned...  Wouldn't want to have a mid-air at all, but especially in the middle of a funeral ceremony.

Which is the reason that it requires qualification, briefing, and National approval.  The formation flying is relatively fundamental.  Simple four plane with a transition to three plane.  The area of major concern is the rendevous, and that should take place well away from the funeral.  Then all you need is a leader that appreciates the gravity of what is taking place, and non-hotshot wingman who are content to fly wing at a prudent distance.

[LtCol White]

BDU's/Utility uniforms/Flight suits are NOT appropriate for a funeral ever. ONLY Service uniform/corporate or civilian attire.

If that's your opinion then fine. But I tend to think that the military has a different view of what the BDU looks like than the civilian population think it looks like. If I were at a military function (and CAP is not the real military) I would want the soldiers present to look like they were ready to do a job. But that's just me. I think I have explained my reasoning for this enough.

--Nomex

Yes, it is my opinion and the military does not have a different view at all. As a Marine protocol officer I can tell you Officially that anything other than service uniform or appropriate civilian attire is not appropriate.

[afgeo4]

As far as CAP paying for these missions, I never mentioned this to be a USAF mission. I said CAP. That's not USAF. CAP has a very limited budget. I actually think it'd be easier to convince USAF to fund this than to convince NHQ to fund it.

As fas as LE uniforms go... you guys forget that the standard operating uniform of a police officer IS the dress uniform. Police departments have tactical uniforms, usually worn by special units. Officers wear a dress uniform to present a less combatant appearance to the community and to convey respect toward the community they serve. I've attended many police and fdny funerals in the last few years (unfortunately), including a funeral for a falled FDNY firefighter just this morning. Everyone always wears combinations with service coats except for probies, who don't have one issued yet. They wore their dressiest one, the short sleeve, open collar. Army and USMC uniforms for funerals/burials are usually dress blues, which is their dressiest uniform. Navy/USGC wear summer/winter black and USAF wear service dress.

As far as fly-by's... formation flying isn't allowed in CAP because of insurance and safety issues. Remember, CAP pilots usually aren't military trained. The military trains you to fly in formations in Undergraduate Pilot Training (or equivalent). CAP doesn't train you at all. If you do a single aircraft flight, perhaps rock the wings, it's still something for the family and requires no further apporvals. Also, it costs very little, so the members of the squadron could chip in to pay for it (a nice gesture to the family).

[pixelwonk]

I'm not one to knock a guy for his last wishes.  If he wants bags and BDUs cuz that's how he rolled, well um... ok.  I'd sure give a lot of thought to whether my friends in CAP were unintentionally insulting my grieving family if it were my funeral, however.

I had the unfortunate opportunity to attend the memorial service of a friend and squadron member this past Saturday.  This individual had passed quite unexpectedly and we were all very shocked and saddened by his death. 

Although it wasn't a line of duty death, the family wished for a strong CAP presence, to the point of requesting that the service be held in the large squadron meeting facility.  (This is a new building, not some old ate up hangar) Because the body was previously cremated, there was no casket. Instead, a table was placed at front with pictures and three half-manikins dressed in the favorite uniforms of the deceased; his flight jacket, to denote his love of flying on missions; his service dress coat; and his mess dress jacket.  I found this to be a nice touch, and gave a feeling of familiarity despite his body not being there.

Because of his involvement with two area units, a fellow from the other squadron put a slideshow to music and it was played on the overhead LCD projector prior to the service.  The family had their own that they made and it was played during the service itself.  Various family and CAP members gave eulogies about how the deceased had touched their lives.  Lastly, the squadron commander presented the unit flag to the mother of the departed in an extremely moving gesture, after it was flown at half staff and then folded by the color guard.

Afterwards, a wake meal was served in the hangar for all the guests by the parents of cadets at the unit.  During this time, a solitary CAP plane flew low overhead, rocking it's wings as it passed directly in front of the family gathered outside.  They were very honored to have this done for them.

Overall, this was the first and hopefully only CAP funeral I've been to, and although things might have been done differently for others, nothing... nothing could have been done better.

[LtCol White]

I'm not one to knock a guy for his last wishes.  If he wants bags and BDUs cuz that's how he rolled, well um... ok.  I'd sure give a lot of thought to whether my friends in CAP were unintentionally insulting my grieving family if it were my funeral, however.

I had the unfortunate opportunity to attend the memorial service of a friend and squadron member this past Saturday.  This individual had passed quite unexpectedly and we were all very shocked and saddened by his death. 

Although it wasn't a line of duty death, the family wished for a strong CAP presence, to the point of requesting that the service be held in the large squadron meeting facility.  (This is a new building, not some old ate up hangar) Because the body was previously cremated, there was no casket. Instead, a table was placed at front with pictures and three half-manikins dressed in the favorite uniforms of the deceased; his flight jacket, to denote his love of flying on missions; his service dress coat; and his mess dress jacket.  I found this to be a nice touch, and gave a feeling of familiarity despite his body not being there.

Because of his involvement with two area units, a fellow from the other squadron put a slideshow to music and it was played on the overhead LCD projector prior to the service.  The family had their own that they made and it was played during the service itself.  Various family and CAP members gave eulogies about how the deceased had touched their lives.  Lastly, the squadron commander presented the unit flag to the mother of the departed in an extremely moving gesture, after it was flown at half staff and then folded by the color guard.

Afterwards, a wake meal was served in the hangar for all the guests by the parents of cadets at the unit.  During this time, a solitary CAP plane flew low overhead, rocking it's wings as it passed directly in front of the family gathered outside.  They were very honored to have this done for them.

Overall, this was the first and hopefully only CAP funeral I've been to, and although things might have been done differently for others, nothing... nothing could have been done better.

Its a whole different story if the deceased or the family requests BDU's or Flight suits because of the person's fondness of it. To just show up wearing it as your uniform under normal circumstances is what is inappropriate

[pixelwonk]

Read again, please. Where did I state that we wore work uniforms?
To be Cascade-clear, those CAP members attending the funeral wore service dress or business suits.

[afgeo4]

Let's not knock on Nomex... let's just thank god that most of his friends aren't Services Airmen or they'd all be at his funeral wearing chef's whites while wielding knives and forks. You know... THEIR working uniforms.

[ZigZag911]

In addition to the information offered in the Chaplain Service & Honor Guard regulations, CAPP 3, Chapter 8, discusses "Participation in Funerals for Deceased CAP Members".

The primary emphasis is on respecting the wishes of the next of kin/family. Within the parameters set by the family, CAP seeks to honor its deceased members (whatever the cause) by dignified participation in funeral services -- whether this is limited to simple attendance at a wake and/or funeral service, all the way to providing a CAP chaplain & honor guard.

By the way, as far as I know all CAP honor guards are comprised of cadets -- and the honor guards I've seen have fulfilled their part in funeral services with respectful professionalism.

The mourners are going to be much more focused on the affection and respect shown for their loved one by CAP than on any minor flaw in carrying out the ceremony.

[alice]

Hear, hear ZigZag.  It all comes down to respecting the wishes of the surviving family members, and then secondly, it's very important to try to respect the wishes of the closest surviving CAP colleagues, too.

I've been to two CAP funerals for deaths during AFRCC missions which left all the surviving family and friends very comforted.  Here are some observations:

- When a seach has happened for those killed, those searchers will want to come to any services.  Most county sheriff SAR volunteer units - like the 50 members of the Sheridan County SAR quoted in the latest PR from national - will most likely only have field uniforms.  One funeral I went to had a similar sheriff SAR ground team who came in their field uniforms.  Orange shirts and all.  It was a significant reminder of what SAR is really all about.

-Not all CAP senior members own a USAF dark blue jacket or could even get one on short notice.  Appropriate civilian busines clothes are better than a pale blue USAF shirt.

- Sometimes flyovers are canceled due to weather, but a gun salute and taps can be just as moving.

- Now is the time for those of us not in Wyoming, especially those of us on wing staffs to start asking where to send donations for favored charities and such, and/or flowers for any such service(s) of remembrance.  Banks fo flowers are very nice to have at such services...  It gives one something to look at when you're catatonic and most importantly reminds you many others are thinking about you.  The families and local squadron members  need to know WYWG is not alone.  That said, there is I would suspect by now "every indication" those killed were properly on an Air Force Authorized Mission. Let's face it - one aboard was a CAP IG! - so there will be federal burial benefits, and that includes funds for memorial services if the surviving families want that.

Alice