NOTF on Wing Banking

[jimmydeanno]

How do you figure that the paid NHQ staff tells us what to do?  How do you figure that they are creating policy, etc...?

Take the CP staff for instance.

They develop cirriculum, because, frankly, most of our volunteers are not cirriculum developers and really have no concept on how to do that.  However, they get approval to do so.  The members scream and yell about how crappy the cadet leadership books are, so the NHQ staff gets tasked with writing new ones...

NCSAs are directed by a volunteer, however, NHQ provides SUPPORT from NHQ staffers.

Regulation re-writes come from decisions from the NB - not decisions from paid NHQ staffers.  People complain that regulations and manuals aren't updated in time or are out of date, etc. but the NHQ staffers do a lot and they tend to be on the bottom of their priority list.

"Hmmm, should I organize IACE, nah, I'll incorporate the newest policy letter into 39-1..."

You figure, they are re-writing the CP leadership manuals, traveling to conferences to help train the volunteers, organizing and planning for 30 NCSAs, IACE, working with AF personnel, making budgets, re-developing all the PD courses, etc.

No offense to you, but most of the stuff the volunteers try tocome up with in terms of a professional, well thought out, well implemented program, that can work on the national scale is crap.  The typical volunteer has NO concept of how to create things that apply on a large scale or have any concept of anything the staffers do.

I hate to tell you this, but CAP IS run by the volunteers, not the paid personnel.  However, there are many positions in CAP that can not be filled with a volunteer because volunteers really have no accountability, not enough time, etc.  You need someone who can do CAP full-time.

I think you have a complete misconception about the role of the NHQ staffers.  I do not believe that it is the NHQ staffers that don't understand their role, but you don't understand theirs.

[Skyray]

Over the years, the only paid staff I have ever had contact with is Susie Parker, who does exactly what she is told by the elected "leadership."  Occasionally she has the grace to apologize when she knows what they are doing is wrong, but she always does it.  That is good staff.

[floridacyclist]

When I was in VAWG with the wing banker program, we could still operate our "snack fund."  The stipulation however, was that every night, after the meeting, the cash had to be removed from the box and deposited in the bank account.

We just told people to bring exact change (not that hard since a drink and candy bar was 1.00).  Even if people didn't bring exact change, by the 4th or 5th person, there was enough to make change for a 5...

So how did they buy drinks and stuff for the next meeting if all the money was deposited? Did you have to invoice the wing for $20.00 to replenish the supplies?

[davedove]

When I was in VAWG with the wing banker program, we could still operate our "snack fund."  The stipulation however, was that every night, after the meeting, the cash had to be removed from the box and deposited in the bank account.

We just told people to bring exact change (not that hard since a drink and candy bar was 1.00).  Even if people didn't bring exact change, by the 4th or 5th person, there was enough to make change for a 5...

So how did they buy drinks and stuff for the next meeting if all the money was deposited? Did you have to invoice the wing for $20.00 to replenish the supplies?

It would probably have to work like this.  One person (or a group) would have to buy the snacks up front, estimating how much would be needed for that one meeting.  At the end of the meeting, those who contributed would take their costs out of the pot and the remainder would be deposited.

This method would really destroy any accountability of the snack fund however.  The only way to preserve accountability would be to deposit all the proceeds, and those who contributed would have to submit for reimbursement.

[jimmydeanno]

The way we did it is this...

1) Supply guy buys snacks and sodas (aproximately $200.00 worth)

2) Supply guy stocks fridge.

3) Supply guy submits reciepts to squadron finance officer.

4) Finance officer fills out check request form for total of supply guy's reciepts.

5) Finance officer gets necessary signatures and scans check request and copy of reciept to wing.

6) Wing person opens e-mail, prints check request and inputs data in accounting software.

7) Wing person prints check from accounting software and gets signatures as needed (usually once per week during wing staff meeting).

8) Wing person mails check to supply guy.

9) Supply guy gets check and cashes it.

10) In the meantime, squadron people buy snacks with exact change or make a "donation" - we didn't do IOUs...

11) At the end of the night, money collected from snack sales is totaled by finance officer.

12) Deposit slip is written.

13) Finance officer deposits money into bank account at local branch of where the wing account is...

14) Finance officer scans and sends deposit slip to wing (keeping the original at the squadron).

15) Wing adds amount to squadrons total in accounting software.

16) Wing sends a monthly statement, just like the bank to the squadron via e-mail.

17) Finance officer confirms everything is correct and notifies wing of other errors.

Disabled smileys -MIKE

[mikeylikey]

^  Too much work!

I go to the Commissary once a month, usually during their case lot sale.  I buy sodas and snacks, sell them at each meeting.  I take my share of profit (from what I paid for the items) and the rest goes to the SQD at the end of the month.  No need to make weekly deposits.  I call it a "donation" each month.  I make a total of $350.00 and invested an original $175.00  I should expand to other local SQDS!!!!

[ELTHunter]

The way we did it is this...

1) Supply guy buys snacks and sodas (aproximately $200.00 worth)

2) Supply guy stocks fridge.

3) Supply guy submits reciepts to squadron finance officer.

4) Finance officer fills out check request form for total of supply guy's reciepts.

5) Finance officer gets necessary signatures and scans check request and copy of reciept to wing.

6) Wing person opens e-mail, prints check request and inputs data in accounting software.

7) Wing person prints check from accounting software and gets signatures as needed (usually once per week during wing staff meeting).

Wing person mails check to supply guy.

9) Supply guy gets check and cashes it.

10) In the meantime, squadron people buy snacks with exact change or make a "donation" - we didn't do IOUs...

11) At the end of the night, money collected from snack sales is totaled by finance officer.

12) Deposit slip is written.

13) Finance officer deposits money into bank account at local branch of where the wing account is...

14) Finance officer scans and sends deposit slip to wing (keeping the original at the squadron).

15) Wing adds amount to squadrons total in accounting software.

16) Wing sends a monthly statement, just like the bank to the squadron via e-mail.

17) Finance officer confirms everything is correct and notifies wing of other errors.

Disabled smileys -MIKE

OK, change $200 to $50 and tell me that sound efficient.  I'm not buying it.  The only reason it isn't wasting more than the $200 in staff time is because the staff is paid.

[floridacyclist]

With 5 kids, the supply guy (gal in this case) better not be spending $200.00 on sodas and such.

[captrncap]

How long did the transition take from the SQ Bank Acct to Wing before any checks could be written?

NYWG is doing this with the last SQ check written on 15 Aug.

When can the check request be submitted to wing (after the deposit has been made into the WG acct).

[jimmydeanno]

^we had a period of about 30 days transition - for all the old account checks to clear and get the new one ready to go. 

In your case, I can't say specifically, it would have to be a time determined by a) your bank and b) the wing person setting it up. 

[ZigZag911]

In NJ the groups were given 90-120 days (roughly Jan 1-Apr 15); the squadrons were notified at roughly the same time that their deadline was in August (I forget exact date), so they had months to prepare.

[ADCAPer]

So...bottom line....don't try to cercuvent the Wing Banker Program.  Get with your Wing CC and help him hack out a local regulation that will allow you to keep some money on hand for change and such. 

Nice try, but all you're doing is attempting to circumvent the system yourself by assuming that a Wing CC can simply re-write the rules to make them less restrictive. The time to campaign for exceptions would have been during the re-write, but since National simply forced that through with no review we are all stuck with it.

If you read 173-1 you will find:

4. Wing Banking.
a. ... Once a wing has been selected to implement the Wing Banker Program, participation by units below wing level within that wing is mandatory. ...

So, you have no choice but to participate.

8. Deposits. All unit funds will be deposited in the name of the CAP unit. Units will maintain copies of all deposit slips. Funds should be deposited daily, if possible. Units participating in the Wing Banker Program must deposit funds into the unit checking account maintained by the wing. ...

Notice that the wording is "will", not may or should, but "will"

And finally,

19. Financial Noncompliance. Units that fail to comply with any portion of this regulation may be subjected to disciplinary or administrative action including deactivation by the wing commander.

[mikeylikey]

.....may be subjected to disciplinary or administrative action including deactivation by the wing commander.

I doubt they are going to start shutting SQD's down.  That would be AWESOME PR, and surely drive the recruiting campaign. 

I don't like the banker program, but it really is how chain restaurants and chain retail stores do operate.  IT has been around for some time, and I am guessing someone in VA Wing was a retail store manager and just copied the program.

[ADCAPer]

Back on topic... my concern with Wing banker is that the NB will eventually vote to allow Wing CCs to raid unit funds.  I think it's only a matter of time before the "priorities of the Wing" take precedence and they steal the $500 that some squadron has worked hard to raise.

Yes...but the NB has ALWAYS had that power.  Before wing banking, "squadron" money was "CAP" money.  The wing could have demanded it for other purposes.

But let's assume for a moment that this does happen....should not the "priorities of the wing" take precedence?  I mean someone really needs a new L-per and the Homer J. Simpson Squadron has a butt load of extra cash in its account.....why not help the new little squadron who has nothing?

I don't really see a problem with doing that.  I mean we are all one team aren't we?

No, they ALWAYS operated under that assumption, but if they had directed a unit to simply surrender locally generated funds they would have found out in a hurry that there is in fact a difference between locally obtained funds and appropriated funds. The fact is that they have always had the "authority" to demand them, but they didn't have the "ability" to do it.

And yes, we may be one team, but if the Wing has priorities then they need to use their APPROPRIATED FUNDS from the states and the feds to take care of their priorities, not the locally generated funds that a squadron raises to support themselves.

And besides, if a little squadron needs help then they should call their Group Commander, or they can ask another unit directly if they could help them out, but the Wings should not ever have the ability to simply redistribute funds that a squadron has raised.

[jimmydeanno]

If you are really that worried about your funds being "confiscated," all you need to do is make sure whoever is donating the money earmarks it for your squadron's use only.

If someone says, I'll donate $100.00 to Civil Air Patrol as long as it is used to pay for a cadet from "X" squadron to go to encampment, that is what it must be used for if the donation is accepted. 

So, if you're running a snack fund, one could assume that if they put on the collection jar - all profits from snack fund will be used to benefit the "X" squadron, people are making the "donation" under the assumption that the profits will be used locally - therefore, earmarking them for your use.

(Not a banker or Finance officer, but if I read the rules right, it should be able to work that way...)

[ADCAPer]

If you are really that worried about your funds being "confiscated," all you need to do is make sure whoever is donating the money earmarks it for your squadron's use only.

There is absolutely nothing in either CAPR 173-1 or CAPR 173-4 which allows for "earmarks". Any funds you acquire, either through your soda fund, or a donation are accepted in the name of CAP, not a local unit. And I'm sure you know that that's what you have to tell them when they donate the funds, that's why National provides that nice form letter in 173-4.

I agree with you completely, any funds you raise locally should be yours, and you shouldn't have to surrender them to the Wing Bank and then "request" to use your own money. As I've mentioned on this board before, there is absolutely nothing to stop National from doing another re-write of the financial regulation and suddenly allowing the Wing to reallocate your funds as they see fit. Don't believe it? Research the last couple of re-writes of 173-1, they were done under the table without the proper review and simply forced down everyone's throat without being properly vetted.

In reality National has always had implied control over any and all funds that a unit raised, or received to support their local unit, but National didn't have the ability to get at the funds. With Wing Banking this is no longer the case. All units are now just one supplement away from losing control of their funds, and how much do you think you're going to be receiving then?

[jimmydeanno]

It is a legal issue at that point.  If I donate $500.00 dollars to a squadron scholarship fund and the donation is accepted with those terms and the money isn't used that way, it becomes fraud.

We work the same way for logistical donations.  If someone donates the squadron a stokes litter for the squadron use and the wing "aquires" it - the donation isn't being used as accepted, the donater can request the litter back.

So unless the organization wants to "lose" donations that have already been accepted and earmarked as such, they "can't" use the money elsewhere other than what it was designated for.

[Grumpy]

Money!  What money?  Our squadron's so poor we can't afford a down payment on a free lunch.

[ADCAPer]

It is a legal issue at that point.  If I donate $500.00 dollars to a squadron scholarship fund and the donation is accepted with those terms and the money isn't used that way, it becomes fraud.

It's not a legal issue, but it is an ethical one that has been discussed on this board before. If your Wing confiscates any of your funds then you should try to take action against them, but they are going to win in the end, because the CAP Constitution will support them.

IAW with CAPR 173-4, if you receive a donation of more than $250 then you have to provide the donor with a copy of the letter from 173-4. There is nothing in that letter that allows any donation to be targeted to a specific unit or function; it is received by the corporation.

Additionally, in the CAP Constitution, ARTICLE XVII, FUNDS AND PROPERTY:

... All funds and property acquired by Civil Air Patrol in any manner and from whatever sources shall be received in the name of Civil Air Patrol and shall become the property of the Corporation, and shall be administered and accounted for as prescribed in the Bylaws and regulations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As of this minute, it would technically be illegal for National or the Wing to do anything with your unit funds that are in the Wing Bank without your approval, but since CAP as a Corporation actually owns all things CAP, you'd never make a case. And you gave your donors a letter saying that they were donating to the Corporation, not to your unit.

Now consider this, National re-wrote CAPR 173-1 not once, but twice in the space of a few months last year. On both occasions it was done in violation of the regulations, and was never posted for review by the members. Then they used that regulation to have the Wing CC's ram Wing Banking down the throats of the local units by threatening them with everything from suspension of members to suspension of unit charters if they didn't comply immediately.

So, why would they worry about re-writing the regulation one more time to make the seizure of all local funds legal? Now they have them, and with a few clicks of the leyboard they can just take them.

[Skyray]

This is not a new issue.  Donations to CAP have always been required to be accepted in the name of the corporation, and more than once I have seen the corporation, in the persona of Wing, take those funds.  There is a fairly simple solution.  The corporation doesn't like it, but it is perfectly legal and there is not much they can do about it.  Form a not-for-profit and qualify it under the IRS regs--it is really not difficult.  Then when you have a potential donor explain to him the facts of life that his donation may go to east Quarentine, Idaho and if he wants it to stay here and benefit the locals, he should donate to your not-for profit.  I am the resident agent for the Florida Air Patrol, a local not-for-profit we formed years ago.