I'm trying to find the reg that addresses this. But all I'm seeing is wearing the uniform for political purposes.
Is it legal for a member to use photos of CAP members in uniform to solicit donations for personal use? What is the reg that backs this up? I would appreciate any information on this!
Bump
Forbidden under CAPR173-4, 14 (e) and CAPM39-1, 1.2.7.4.
Quote from: capchick121 on August 24, 2016, 12:53:00 PM
Bump
Bumping a post that is 3 minutes old is bad form, ma'am.
It was already on page 2 when I bumped lol
Strange seeing when I got on there were only 6 unread threads when I logged on this morning.
Quote from: capchick121 on August 24, 2016, 01:39:01 PM
It was already on page 2 when I bumped lol
Anytime I see "lol" like this, I immediately think this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCps1JT-OAU
Quote from: capchick121 on August 24, 2016, 01:39:01 PM
It was already on page 2 when I bumped lol
You should probably learn more about the forum... I saw it within 5 minutes and have already read 8 other conversations.
1st Lt Raduenz
It's completely possible to accidentally change the thread sort order to something that's not "most recent post first" and not realize it, y'know.
Quote from: raivo on August 24, 2016, 04:31:49 PM
It's completely possible to accidentally change the thread sort order to something that's not "most recent post first" and not realize it, y'know.
Which doesn't justify a bump 3 minutes in, especially when literally few other topics have any posts in the last few days.
Quote from: capchick121 on August 24, 2016, 12:50:11 PM
I'm trying to find the reg that addresses this. But all I'm seeing is wearing the uniform for political purposes.
Is it legal for a member to use photos of CAP members in uniform to solicit donations for personal use? What is the reg that backs this up? I would appreciate any information on this!
Now that is a good question. Because every once in a while I see a gofundme for a CAP member in need, generally with a picture of the cadet or cadets in uniform.
CAPM 39-1, 1.2.7, "When NOT to wear the CAP uniform,"
under subsection 4 states:
1.2.7.4. While furthering political activities, private employment or commercial interest.
So I suppose that technically it isn't falling in any of those 3 categories?
1.2.7.3 would be the only one to follow up on: "Under any circumstance that would tend to bring discredit or reproach upon the
uniform"
The better question is...personal donations for what?
Tongue piercing? Vacation? A NCSA?
Over the years, I have seen various circumstances in which we put out a general call to membership for help to aid another member or family. I have seen money donated quite a few times, household goods, blood, and even a kidney (note to organ harvesters: I have only seen this once, so please do not expect to harvest the organs of our members).
Strictly speaking, this is not against regulations by the letter of the uniform prohibitions. I would not view something like raising capital for a start-up business as within the intent of the regulations. It is possible that it might be appropriate for emergency circumstances, if making a page to send out to CAP members. I'd probably use a non-CAP photo as the main photo, and if CAP photos were to be added, showing a member active in the organization, perhaps make them secondary. It would be prudent to make sure it is clear that it is not fundraising for CAP, that it is not tax deductible, etc. This area is fuzzy. The fundraising regulation prohibits certain things, but is clearly intended to address what can be done in fundraising activities that are governed by the regulation.
Please do not bump threads in this way. If they are immediate bumps, I will remove the post. It is unnecessary. The post volume has been low. People will see it just fine. Most people do not make use of the individual post list; they use the pages like Unread Posts and New Replies.
Quote from: THRAWN on August 24, 2016, 01:02:23 PM
Forbidden under CAPR173-4, 14 (e) and CAPM39-1, 1.2.7.4.
If you read 173-4 14(e) out of context, it looks like it might apply. However, that regulation applies to CAP fundraising. An individual may not benefit from a CAP fundraising effort.
It is not permitted to use CAP fundraising as a means to make a personal profit . Appearing in uniform, as a CAP member in a "Go Fund Me" page, asking for money, can be considered in the context of CAP Fundraising. IMHO, this would be a good way to become a "former member". There are better ways to solicit personal funds...
Quote from: FW on August 24, 2016, 09:31:43 PM
It is not permitted to use CAP fundraising as a means to make a personal profit . Appearing in uniform, as a CAP member in a "Go Fund Me" page, asking for money, can be considered in the context of CAP Fundraising. IMHO, this would be a good way to become a "former member". There are better ways to solicit personal funds...
I encourage members to consult with their legal officer before engaging in CAP or private fundraising in which members may be portrayed in uniform.
Generally, by following 39-1's spirit if not letter of the law, you should not use the uniform for personal gain.
Employment, business interests, political, etc.
Having said that.
If, as was pointed out, the personal gain was for money to attend an NCSA or Encampment or some other CAP related function.....then wearing the uniform or using images of the same....would enter a gray area.
As Damron said....individual members should consult with their commanders and commanders should consult with higher HQ just to be on the safe side.
To some extent, it's not even gray - 173-4 explicitly prohibits the wear of USAF-Style uniforms by adults during any fund raising, personal or otherwise.
"2. No Air Force Involvement. It is important that no suggestions or inference be made in
any CAP fund-raising program that the Air Force is involved or would benefit. Therefore, wear
of the Air Force-style CAP uniform in fund raising activities is limited to cadets. Advertising and
promotional matter should clearly identify CAP as a distinct organization from the Air Force.
(See also paragraph 15f.)"
Quote from: Eclipse on August 25, 2016, 03:43:23 AM
To some extent, it's not even gray - 173-4 explicitly prohibits the wear of USAF-Style uniforms by adults during any fund raising, personal or otherwise.
"2. No Air Force Involvement. It is important that no suggestions or inference be made in
any CAP fund-raising program that the Air Force is involved or would benefit. Therefore, wear
of the Air Force-style CAP uniform in fund raising activities is limited to cadets. Advertising and
promotional matter should clearly identify CAP as a distinct organization from the Air Force.
(See also paragraph 15f.)"
173-4 refers to CAP fundraising. You have chosen to to use the words "personal or otherwise".
Quote from: Damron on August 25, 2016, 04:30:07 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 25, 2016, 03:43:23 AM
To some extent, it's not even gray - 173-4 explicitly prohibits the wear of USAF-Style uniforms by adults during any fund raising, personal or otherwise.
"2. No Air Force Involvement. It is important that no suggestions or inference be made in
any CAP fund-raising program that the Air Force is involved or would benefit. Therefore, wear
of the Air Force-style CAP uniform in fund raising activities is limited to cadets. Advertising and
promotional matter should clearly identify CAP as a distinct organization from the Air Force.
(See also paragraph 15f.)"
173-4 refers to CAP fundraising. You have chosen to to use the words "personal or otherwise".
So you'd assert that it's verboten to be in a USAF-style uniform with your hand out when the money comes
back to CAP, but would be OK if the money goes to the member?
Quote from: Eclipse on August 25, 2016, 04:38:54 AM
Quote from: Damron on August 25, 2016, 04:30:07 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 25, 2016, 03:43:23 AM
To some extent, it's not even gray - 173-4 explicitly prohibits the wear of USAF-Style uniforms by adults during any fund raising, personal or otherwise.
"2. No Air Force Involvement. It is important that no suggestions or inference be made in
any CAP fund-raising program that the Air Force is involved or would benefit. Therefore, wear
of the Air Force-style CAP uniform in fund raising activities is limited to cadets. Advertising and
promotional matter should clearly identify CAP as a distinct organization from the Air Force.
(See also paragraph 15f.)"
173-4 refers to CAP fundraising. You have chosen to to use the words "personal or otherwise".
So you'd assert that it's verboten to be in a USAF-style uniform with your hand out when the money comes
back to CAP, but would be OK if the money goes to the member?
No, I've asserted that 173-4 applies to CAP fundraising. Beyond that, I've encouraged the counsel of CAP legal officers in such matters.
This has been done for NCSAs a whole bunch of times, and that isn't going to go away, so that is something national should look into. It seems appropriate to include such photos if a cadet is fundraising, say, to go do IACE.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 25, 2016, 03:43:23 AM
To some extent, it's not even gray - 173-4 explicitly prohibits the wear of USAF-Style uniforms by adults during any fund raising, personal or otherwise.
"2. No Air Force Involvement. It is important that no suggestions or inference be made in
any CAP fund-raising program that the Air Force is involved or would benefit. Therefore, wear
of the Air Force-style CAP uniform in fund raising activities is limited to cadets. Advertising and
promotional matter should clearly identify CAP as a distinct organization from the Air Force.
(See also paragraph 15f.)"
I didn't notice the word "adult" in your post. You are correct in asserting that adults are precluded from wearing AF-style uniforms in fundraising activities.
Quote from: JC004 on August 25, 2016, 05:26:43 AM
This has been done for NCSAs a whole bunch of times, and that isn't going to go away, so that is something national should look into. It seems appropriate to include such photos if a cadet is fundraising, say, to go do IACE.
No one is saying we can't fund-raise for NCSAs, Scholarships, etc; with cadets in uniform. This is quite acceptable, however no one can fund raise with the hope of personally profiting from the effort; either by getting a percentage of the proceeds, or the whole sum. The responsibility figuring it out falls on the wing commander (or above). The appropriate commander will consult with legal counsel before making the decision.
Not getting permission is a good way to become a former member... >:D