What Is Going On With Replacing 2130D???

[ProdigalJim]

I need to take the ES Officer class...that's the only thing holding me up. But, as you all know, the class is dead and being replaced with something new. Which will be available in October, no wait, November, no wait, Someday...

Maybe I should go train in another speciality, just so I can get Technician and get promoted.

I keep checking with the Knowledgebase, and in the empty spot on the training webpage where the links should be. No soap. Does anybody have some actual insight into what the bloody hold-up is? And when those of us in limbo might be able to get off the schneid and get this done?

[Extremepredjudice]

If the class is non-existent, you could probably get it waved.

[Eclipse]

There's a bunch of threads here on this.

John Desmaris has indicated that this class is no longer required, and won't be until the new on is completed.
Confirm through your chain.

[cap235629]

It is no longer required until the next class comes out. I was in the same boat and confirmed it with John Desmaris and forwarded the email up nthe chain and received the rating

[ProdigalJim]

Yeah, I saw that. But my chain sees the following language on the ESO Training page of the website, and thinks I need to wait for the course:

>> A new online course for CAP Emergency Services Officers was originally expected to be released on the 11th of October, but do to unforeseen issues the release will be delayed until the 7th of November, 2011.  Modules for the training will be released here as they are available.  We apologize for the delay.
  <<

My chain interprets this as it being available any day now, so therefore, I ought to be patient and wait. Which I will...but not if I'm still having this conversation in, say, May.

[Eclipse]

My chain interprets this as it being available any day now, so therefore, I ought to be patient and wait. Which I will...but not if I'm still having this conversation in, say, May.

Well, then I guess you're "done" - the tech rating is approved by your unit CC with no further vetting, if he won't believe what we're saying,
or his only source of information is the Group or Wing, and they refuse to accept the answer, then you've got no further avenues to pursue.

[ProdigalJim]

News Flash!

Our Wing CC just put out a memo this evening confirming formal waiver of the requirement, so long as we finish up the various IS series classes (sans 300 and 400) and take it six months after it becomes available, whenever that is (which is cool, because I'm genuinely eager to take the class if and when it comes out).

Great news for all of us!

[EMT-83]

If you don't take the yet-to-be-released course within six months, are they going to revoke the technician rating?

[SARDOC]

If you don't take the yet-to-be-released course within six months, are they going to revoke the technician rating?

No, The plan is that they are not going to revoke it, But you won't be able to advance to Senior without it.

[Eclipse]

If you don't take the yet-to-be-released course within six months, are they going to revoke the technician rating?

No, The plan is that they are not going to revoke it, But you won't be able to advance to Senior without it.

So you can get to "tech", but then are stuck there?  If past experience is any indicator, you could well be into Master territory
before this is even released.

Waived should be waived, which is what it is at the National Level.

[SARDOC]

Here's the relevant part of the memo

2.   In order to maintain momentum and continued growth of our Wing's emergency services personnel, commanders are hereby authorized to waive the ECI 02130D requirement and approve personnel to the Technician Rating in Emergency Services (ES) with the following caveats:

   a.   Member must have completed IS 100, 200, 700, and 800 before approving the technician rating.

   b.   Upon publication of the new course from National Headquarters, the member must complete that course before approval of the next ES rating.  In other words, if the course has not been released and the member meets all other eligibility requirements for a senior rating, commanders may approve the senior rating.  If after attaining the senior rating, the new course is published, the member would have to complete the course before approving him/her for a master rating.

   c.   The unit commander (or delegated to Emergency Services Officer (ESO)) will notify the Wing Emergency Services Officer via email that a waiver has been authorized for the member; with a carbon copy to the Wing Professional Development Officer.

   d.   The unit ESO is responsible for tracking waivers at the unit level.  How this is accomplished is left to the individual squadrons.  A recommended way is to place a 'W' following the date in the applicable block on the member's CAPF 45 or CAPF 66.

3.   This waiver remains in effect until revoked in writing.

[Eclipse]

OK, the above is completely reasonable.   That should probably be adopted in my Wing as well.

[lordmonar]

No.

National either needs to rewrite the criteria to get the rateing or publish the replacement course!

[SARDOC]

No.

National either needs to rewrite the criteria to get the rateing or publish the replacement course!

Why?

[lordmonar]

No.

National either needs to rewrite the criteria to get the rateing or publish the replacement course!

Why?

We at the ground level do not have to try to guess when NHQ was going get a new product out.

The old course was obsolete......okay.......but they should have written the replacement course before they discontinued the old one.
Since it has been such a long time and we have no idea when the new course is comming out....NHQ needs to issue and ICL or change to regulation clearly stating what needs to be done.

[SARDOC]

The old course was obsolete......okay.......but they should have written the replacement course before they discontinued the old one.
Since it has been such a long time and we have no idea when the new course is comming out....NHQ needs to issue and ICL or change to regulation clearly stating what needs to be done.

Sure, I agree that the course was old and outdated.  Also that they should have had the replacement done and beta tested before closing the old one.

Where I'm not sure I understand is what regulation needs to be changed.  The Specialty Track Pamphlets are identified by regulation as study guides in CAPR 50-17 and CAPR 5-4 definitions list-"Pamphlets"  are nondirective, informative, "how-to" type publications that may include suggested methods and techniques for implementing CAP policies.

I'm not sure what needs to be changed, there doesn't appear to be anything compulsory, in any of that.  Not sure what needs to be changed if a policy is issued as stated above to keep the forward momentum of the program to help meet basic mission functions.  It seems to be in the interest of the organization to allow people to progress in the program while they wait for the new course.  I don't find any regulation that prohibits it and would therefor need to be changed.

[RiverAux]

Because you don't get the qual if you don't do what is in the study guide. Its not like because they are "pamphlets" that a squadron commander can willy nilly sign you off on a specialty track just because they think you're qualified. 

[SARDOC]

Because you don't get the qual if you don't do what is in the study guide. Its not like because they are "pamphlets" that a squadron commander can willy nilly sign you off on a specialty track just because they think you're qualified.

The required education is not being skipped, it's being substituted from the outdated, unavailable course.  The Course from, what is it...the 70's or 80's being waived until the new course comes out with FEMA ICS training and making us more compliant with HSPD 5 serves us better as an organization only until the new course is released.  I don't see commanders doing anything "Willy Nilly" and I don't see anything in the regulations that keep us from making the program better and modern.

[Eclipse]

Lord - your arguments are salient, but that doesn't mean we should hold up progression because of delays in the program - that's the kind of thing that
loses members. 

The services requirements and discussions with the approver are much more important then the test ever was, and considering that the
replacement will likely be an online, open-book situation, anyway, assuming there is a test at all, I don't really see the issue.

Waiving the requirement is the only logical / fair answer, at least this decision, made 4-5 years ago, is at least starting to be recognized officially
by wings.  I would be very interested in the logic from any wing that refuses to waive this.

[RiverAux]

The Specialty Track Pamphlets are identified by regulation as study guides in CAPR 50-17 and CAPR 5-4 definitions list-"Pamphlets"  are nondirective, informative, "how-to" type publications that may include suggested methods and techniques for implementing CAP policies.

In that sentence you are stating that the pamphlets do not have to be followed as written. 

Policy changes to regulations should be contained in ICLs.  Since it would take all of 5 minutes to write an ICL eliminating this requirement (same thing is needed in the PAO specialty track BTW) there is no reason not to do it.