ACA

[RiverAux]

I searched their site and could find nothing about creating a new partnership with the Army.  Unless they are holding off on announcing it, I will wait and see.  UNLESS someone here has some insight.

look at the document I posted.

[BillB]

The early CAP ID cards were with ARMY superimposed on the card. The CAP cadet program was an Army Air Corp program, so the Army has had the experience of a cadet program, broadly based geographically which JROTC isn't.
Expanding the ACA program appears to have been slow due to lack of adults interested in the program, and also their requirements for promotions to ACA officer status. No matter what you have accomplished in CAP even through Level 5, it doesn't count for ACA. You still have to go through their officer training program.

[RiverAux]

JROTC isn't broadly geographically based?  They've got about 1600 units.

[BillB]

1600 out of how many high schools in th country??? There are large areas of Florida for example that have no army JROTC. I think there are more CAP Squadrons than Army JROTC nationally.

[RiverAux]

Nope, we've only got 1105 cadet or composite squadrons.  There are 273,000 Army JROTC cadets compared to about 24000 CAP cadets. 

Heck, in Florida alone there are 141 JROTC units compared to 78 CAP cadet or composite squadrons.

Data based on Army JROTC web site and recent CAPWATCH downloads. 

[Major Carrales]

I, too, had never heard of the ACA before I visited CADETSTUFF. 

I could imagine, based on what I know of them from teh web and testimony that in some alternate reality where they got to me before CAP, I would so be involved in that. 

I can, however, empathize with starting new units in areas where there has never been any exposure to the organization with little resources.  It is a challenge.

[Stonewall]

I was asked to help start a unit when I was in DC and then here in FL.  Knowing how much time and effort goes into running a successful CAP squadron, I can only imagine how much it would take to learn about a new program while creating a new unit.

Like others, if ACA would have gotten to me before CAP, I surely would have joined.  When I was in the Army I wore blue part-time in CAP.  Now that I'm in the Air Guard, it would be ironic if I wore green part-time in ACA.

All the respect in the world to ACA, but there's something about CAP, as aggravating as it can be, that I love.  Perhaps it's the "real world" missions.

Hats off to ACA.

[RiverAux]

I think there is a little bit of allure associated with starting a new program from scratch without anywhere near the oversight and regulations associated with a mature program like CAP.  On the other hand, CAP gets a lot of stuff the others don't. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

I considered the ACA, but the Army hates people with a "Girth" problem even more than the Air Force does.  That includes the ACA.

[NIN]

Well, I have been given some interesting information, and of course cannot pass it on at this time. Look for the ACA to start increasing in force and structure within the next few years not in competition with JROTC and ROTC, but as a seperate community based cadet program. Remember the limitations that JROTC and ROTC have such as kowtowing to the school board, limitations of training, and geographical limitations (many schools do not have such a program).

Speaking as one of the "Captain-ic Duo" (hahah..I just made that up..<GRIN>), and without disclosing anything that's not already been said either on CadetStuff, to other members, or to the Army, let me chime in a little here.

For the last two years, I've gone with LTC Land and others to the Association of the United States Army's Annual Meeting in Washington DC.  Let me tell you, if you've never been, you should go.  Its like Disney meets Rambo x 100.  Wow.

But more importantly than just the wow factor of the convention hall floor, there is the opportunity to meet and greet with literally hundreds of senior Army leaders.  Last year I met Secretary of the Army Dr. Francis Harvey, Chief of Staff of the Army Gen Schoomaker, and SMA Kenneth Preston, as well as the Commanding General of TRADOC, the Commanding General of Cadet Command, the Commanding General of the Army Accession Command and a whole BUNCH of other general officers.  As I told a CAP comrade: "I talked to more darn generals in 2 1/2 days than I've ever even seen in 25 YEARS in a CAP uniform.." 

(Funny aside: In the receiving line for the President's Reception on Monday night, the Army IG was musing about his missing aide. He said "Hey, there, Captain, you want to be the Aide for the IG?" I said "Gosh, General, love the offer, but I really don't think I can.." He looked me up and down and said "Hmm, I see your point. Give me 10 minutes with the G-1 and we'll have that part sorted out.  Meanwhile, son, see if you can't snag me another beer, huh?"  We all laughed about that one and his aide showed up right then with the missing beer, so it was a moot point, but gosh, were we having a ball with it.)[/i]

One of the main talking points that always comes up is that the Army has ROTC and JROTC, so why would the Army need *another* cadet program?

"You know, General, that's a great question.  Did you know that JROTC is only available to about 4 1/2% of the entire high school population of the United States?  What about the other 95% of high school students who are not lucky enough to have JROTC in their school? How can we serve that population of students?  The ACA is a community-based cadet program, unlike JROTC, which is strictly school-based.  We're centered around entire geographic areas, not just one high school.  You familiar with Civil Air Patrol, General, the Air Force's community-based cadet program?  Well, just like CAP units, ACA units can be located in communities where there is support for the program, not just in a specific school."

Once you explain the concept of community-based versus high school-based cadet programs, the light generally goes on.

"You mean we don't have a cadet program like this already?"

"No, General, the Army does not have an officially sanctioned and supported cadet program like the ACA's. Yet."

I went on for 2 1/2 days with about 2 dozen general officers like that. 

This year, same thing.  Its amazing watching the light go on when general officers realize that JROTC, even if they doubled its funding and size, is not achieving the same kinds of market penetrations that the ACA, with appropriate funding and support, could.

I could go on, but I think you get the point.

And John, its not so much a "hate" thing, but its just your typical standards thing. Gotta draw the line someplace and unfortunately, some folks fall on the other side of the line.   Unlike CAP, however, the ACA's standards are only 5% higher than the parent service.  That makes it tough.


NIN
CPT, SC, USACC
(associated "Hooah" quotes here)

[NIN]

Did I mention that the ACA lets us jump out of airplanes?  Sort of...

[sandman]

Did I mention that the ACA lets us jump out of airplanes?  Sort of...

You did now!

But you didn't mention the scuba training.....

/r
LT

[capchiro]

A couple of questions.  Does the ACA have a good cadet protection program like CAP??  Being a more aggressive program, how do their hazing-harassment regs compare to ours??  Are they allowed to scream at their cadets more, OCS style??  TIA.

[NIN]

A couple of questions.  Does the ACA have a good cadet protection program like CAP??  Being a more aggressive program, how do their hazing-harassment regs compare to ours??  Are they allowed to scream at their cadets more, OCS style??  TIA.

The ACA's cadet protection policy is similar to CAP's (2-deep leadership, reporting requirements, etc)

However, we have a slightly different take on discipline and the constructive use of on-the-spot corrections and IPT (incentive physical training). IPT is allowed to a point and not just by anybody who has a set of stripes on his or her sleeve.

(Mind you, the IPT policy is still in a draft form, so for me to refer to it would be counterproductive, but understand that our draft IPT policy effectively mirrors the TRADOC IPT policy for trainees, substituting "troop handlers" for "drill sergeants" found in the original TRADOC Regulation 350-6. That's essentially what was taught to the troop handlers during the blocks of instruction they received on the effective use of IPT.)

Not to derail this into a "Pushups = BAD!" kind of thing, remember that the purpose behind any kind of IPT should be to "obtain the individual's full & undivided attention by forcing them, for a few seconds at least, to pay attention to a brief task that YOU dictate.."

Its an attention-getter, really. Not much more.

If you're using it as more than just a simple "hey, pay attention" kind of thing, you're doing it wrong.

"Smoking" a guy isn't training, its cruelty.

(that having been said, have I doled out pushups to cadets? Sure have.  Fall asleep in my class?  Knock out five pushups, troop, and get back up. Lets hope that got the blood flowing a little, eh?   Not the whole class, not 100 pushups.  Just a brief attention getter.  It helps having been IPT'd by professionals for all the right reasons, and occasionally the wrong reasons, to better know the best time to use that particular tool or when its time to use another tool.  As I always say, you need to have more than one tool in your leadership toolbox.  Cadet leaders who solely revert to IPT as their only method of corrective training or discipline don't last long as cadet leaders.)

EDIT: I don't know so much if I would call it "screaming" versus "speaking at a loud volume."  I once heard a drill sergeant say "I don't yell.  I merely speak in a tone that ensures that I will not be misunderstood, misheard or ignored."  If I saw some c/SSG go berserk and start screaming at his cadets, spittle flying in all directions, etc, there would be a pretty quick "OK, time out Staff Sergeant, come over here with me for a minute" kind of thing. You can convey what you need to by using your diaphragm and projection, versus just going all nutty on someone and screaming at the top of your lungs.  There is a difference.

[NIN]

But you didn't mention the scuba training.....

That's cuz people tend to float.



It ain't real serious unless you can die from massive internal trauma.

[COL Land]

Well, I have been given some interesting information, and of course cannot pass it on at this time. Look for the ACA to start increasing in force and structure within the next few years not in competition with JROTC and ROTC, but as a separate community based cadet program. Remember the limitations that JROTC and ROTC have such as kowtowing to the school board, limitations of training, and geographical limitations (many schools do not have such a program).

Let me share a bit of the information that LT C. above is making reference to:

  a.  ACA NHQ Staff, with the assistance of the ACA Board of Advisors, has worked tirelessly towards the nationwide implementation of the U.S. Army Cadet Corps, with a constant focus on "doing the job right."  Most of us have served for decades with other programs, and have learned the various strengths and shortcomings of the other programs.   We're intentionally remained small, until we are able to fully "pull the trigger," so to speak.  As a result, our standards are high and our program is challenging, yet well protected by a solid Cadet Protection Policy and continuous focus on Risk Management.

  b.  Watch out for the U.S. Army Cadet Corps Authorization Act to be introduced to Congress during the 2nd qtr of this FY.   That Act will include appropriate changes to Federal Law, including Titles 10, 32 and 36, as well as an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008.   These changes will provide full support of the Army Cadet Corps.  The language has been in development and continued revision since August of this year and is expected to be in final form next week.   In fact, a meeting is being held tomorrow morning in DC to work out the final details.

  c.  Upon completion of the above, ACA NHQ will draft the applicable Army Regulation, in conjunction with the office of the Assistant Secretary of the Army (Manpower and Reserve Affairs).  This ensures that we have highest-level oversight and support, bringing in the collective support of the "three Armies"  ("big Army," Guard and Reserves).

   d.  Remember, we are intentionally packaged as a Army-oriented "career-exploration" program, setting us apart from JROTC (in fact, our programming is more aligned with the college-level ROTC, rather than the citizenship programming of JROTC).  This is very appealing to those who are faced with the challenges of attracting young people to the Army.  Be clear, we do not actively recruit for the Army, nor will we permit direct recruitment of our Cadets; however, much like the Naval Sea Cadets, we offer an extremely realistic and challenging program for young people so that they can make their own educated decisions.   With this in mind, the Assistant Secretary of the Army (Manpower and Reserve Affairs) recently wrote to a member of Congress, "...a robust (Army Cadet Corps) would enhance the Army recruiting mission...accordingly I have no objection with legislation which permits the Army to support the (Army Cadet Corps).  Should Congress enact statutory authority and provide funding allowing support to the Army Cadet Corps, the Army will implement regulations to support the (Army Cadet Corps), as authorized by statute."  It has taken dozens of meetings and several years to secure this level of commitment for support once the laws have been passed.

   e.  We have recruited an impressive gathering of military leaders to serve as the ACA Board of Advisors.   With MG(CA) Ron Markarian as the chairman, the other members include:

        FREDERICK C. WEYAND
        General (Retired)
        United States Army
        Former Chief of Staff, United States Army

        JAMES W. COMSTOCK
        Major General (Retired)
        United States Army Reserve

        PETER J. GRAVETT
        Major General (Retired)
        United States Army

        RONALD O. HARRISON
        Major General (Retired)
        Florida Army National Guard

        HAROLD TIMBOE, MD
        Major General (Retired)
        United States Army
        Former Commanding General, Walter Reed Army Hospital

        WILLIAM H. WADE, II
        Major General
        California Army National Guard
        Adjutant General, State of California

        ELI WISHART
        Major General (Retired)
        South Carolina State Guard

        JAY VARGAS
        Colonel (Retired)
        United States Marine Corps
        Medal of Honor Recipient

        ANDRE N. COULOMBE
        Colonel, Special Forces
        United States Army Reserve

        LARRY HOLLAND
        Command Sergeant Major (Retired)
        United States Army
        Former Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs
   
    f.  There are a number of initiatives which will be implemented which - based on experiences with other programs, as well as our own business ventures - are intended to make commanding and operating an Army Cadet Corps unit less difficult, and better supported.   Of course, all this is based on funding, which is dependent on Congress.  Further, we are mindful of the value of having a "mission" which permits use of the skills which are learned as a Cadet.   We are working with the State Guard Association, and have authorized the award and wear of the MEMS badge.   Our most recent example of having ACA in a Disaster Relief situation can be found at:  http://www.redcross.org/article/0,1072,0_312_6980,00.html .

    g.  As mentioned by CPT Ninness, we have had face-to-face meeting with all levels of the Army, including formal Office Calls with leaders within Accessions Command, U.S. Army Recruiting Command, the National Guard Bureau, the Chief of the Army Reserve (including a meeting this afternoon with the Deputy Chief of the Army Reserve), Association of the United States Army, members of Congress and many others.   Remember, there are NO full-time employees in ACA, so all of this has been done by my team of "non-paid professionals" (we do not use the word "volunteer"...it's a cultural thing).   

Just this past weekend, we sent out press releases and formation information to ten Army Forts across the southeast (our area of focus for 2nd Qtr, FY-08).   I will be meeting with the leadership of the Texas State Guard next month and had a meeting today with the PAO of Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio.   Fortunately, as a DoD consultant, I travel throughout the country in my paying job, giving me some flexibility to carry out the ACA message.  Our growth will continue to be slow, as we must maintain the quality standards of our program.   We have an Officer Candidate class convening later this month at Fort Indiantown Gap, PA.   While it is true that no one steps into ACA without training - contrary to the above - we do recognize past military and Cadetting experience in our commissioning process.

The above should make it clear that we have been heading towards an all-Army focus for quite awhile.   Rest assured, entering the world of "Hooah!" is no small change for this ol' Sailor.  But, Cadetting is not about the adults, it's about the Cadets.   Our country has long needed an Army-oriented Community-based Cadet Corps, similar to programs offered for young people interested in the Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force.  I will especially mourn the loss of the Naval Cadets, as we pre-date the Naval Sea Cadets by nearly 50 years.   But, this is a business decision, and one that is based on serving the needs of young people, rather than personal needs and egos.   Our program will be 100 years old on 10 Apr 09, which will be the beginning of a brand new chapter in ACA's history.   On 12 Apr 08, COL C. R. Tornow, our National Commander, will be promoted to Brigidair General, U.S. Army Cadet Corps, as approved by the Board of Advisors.   I will pin on COL on that date as well.   The ceremony will be in Pittsburgh, PA, and any member of the Cadetting community is invited to join us.

These are exciting days for our program.   There is much more than the above; however, I have to keep some information in-house, until we have firm answers on some issues, including a desire for formal cooperation between the ACA and CAP.   More as we know it!

Respectfully,

[COL Land]

A couple of questions.  Does the ACA have a good cadet protection program like CAP??  Being a more aggressive program, how do their hazing-harassment regs compare to ours??  Are they allowed to scream at their cadets more, OCS style??

Colonel Siegrist:

Our Cadet Protection policies can be found at:   http://www.acacadets.org/PDF/ACAINST5370-4A.pdf

Respectfully,

[mikeylikey]

LTC Land.  When the Legislation is formalized and goes to session, will you post a link for all of us to read.  I am very interested now.  Also, I will be at "the Gap" later this month for Cadet Command, if you could PM, I would like the opportunity to speak with someone there about the program.

[COL Land]

LTC Land.  When the Legislation is formalized and goes to session, will you post a link for all of us to read.  I am very interested now.  Also, I will be at "the Gap" later this month for Cadet Command, if you could PM, I would like the opportunity to speak with someone there about the program.

Certainly.   We have a bit of "tweeking" to do, but it's just about ready for introduction to Congress.   Once that occurs, we will post the language online, as well as reach out to the "friends of ACA" and ask that a template letter be sent to lawmakers.   

I will be at FIG beginning 27 or 28 Dec and will be there until 4 Jan.   Please feel free to contact me at 866-G0-CADETS, Ext 807 and we'll schedule an appointment to meet.

Regards,

[RiverAux]

Anyone counting on the State Guard Association for any real assistance is grabbing for a mighty thin reed.