rumors?

[Nathan]

Being a barber doesn't give someone legal protection one way or the other. It's not like being a nurse or a doctor.

[jimmydeanno]

What law is being violated if someone has a child cut their hair without parental permission?  What law is being violated if someone without a certification cuts someones hair without taking money for it?  Assault?  What damages are incurred? 

It seems to be one of those "parents don't like it but it's not illegal" situations.  But then again, I'm not a lawyer and I keep my hair short.

[flyguy06]

I'm not taling about the law. I am talking about responsibility. We are responsible for someone else children during encampments. If cadet Jones gets hurt. Mrs. Jones is gonna want answers from who? us. If Cadet gets a haircut that Mrs Jones didnt approve of, Mrs. Jones is gonna want answers from who? us.


Hey, I'm a grunt, I got no problem giving a cadet a buzz cut i am just saying when you are dealing with someone else's child, you need to tread lightly.

[FW]

Isn't there a form to be signed by the parents before a cadet goes to encampment?  If there is a policy to insure the cadet meets the uniform requirements when participating, there should be a disclosure so parents know their child may get "trimmed" while at the activity. I'm surprised this is an issue.

[Cecil DP]

When thecadets and parents sign the membership form , they are also certifying that their son.daughter, or spawn will adhere to CAP requirements.  So requiring that cadet to get a haircur is appropriate. But a cadet with a shaved head isn't. If you have to send a cadet to the barbershop he/she should be accompanied by a member of the cadre and the words, "Tapered haircut" should be used. (unless the kid is infested with lice or other hitchhikers). 

[BreakSilence]

I'm not taling about the law. I am talking about responsibility. We are responsible for someone else children during encampments. If cadet Jones gets hurt. Mrs. Jones is gonna want answers from who? us. If Cadet gets a haircut that Mrs Jones didnt approve of, Mrs. Jones is gonna want answers from who? us.


Hey, I'm a grunt, I got no problem giving a cadet a buzz cut i am just saying when you are dealing with someone else's child, you need to tread lightly.

Totally agree.  I think the main problem here is the communication.  Parents should be more involved in finding out exactly what CAP requires from their children.  Too many parents just drop their kids off at CAP activities like it's some kind of day care.  However, CAP should also take the initiative to inform parents of the details of our requirements.  It is required by the regulations for parents to sign a waiver before cadets can attend many activities.  However, most parents don't realize exactly what kind of permission they're giving.  We should be giving parents the information, so that our backs are covered later.  If they ever come around to complain, we can always tell them we told you.  Like flyguy said, you need to tread lightly with parents.  If you don't let them know in advance, you can get in trouble.

[VPI18]

do they shave your head at encampment?

From my experience as a basic at NJWG encampment, you hair will not be cut unless it is not meeting grooming standards. If it is not, you will be taken to the barber and it will be buzzed, but not shaved. I have not personally had this experience, but this has happened to several of my fellow cadets in my flight. You will have to pay for the haircut.

[Cecil DP]

When I was staioned at Quantico in the early 70's I went into the barbershop to get a "Tapered" haircut in accordance with USMC regulations. While I was being clipped a Colonel decided that my barber wasn't cutting it short enough and ordered the barber to cut it to his standard. When it was time to pay, I had the barber collect from the colonel, because he didn't cut it the way I told him to.  The Colonel paid.

[GTCommando]

OHWG, yes. If you don't meet the grooming standards, which this year was no. 1 cut on top, buzzed everywhere else. Check our encampment website for proof (pics).

http://encampment.ohwg.cap.gov/ 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Here for the Independence Day parade, I cut quite a few cadets hair. I got every cadet who wanted to be in the parade to sit down in a briefing with me and their parents and explained what was going to go on. I also told them that the cadets MUST have a hair cut within three days of the parade, and it MUST be within regulation. I also told them that I regularly cut hair when I was in the Army. If they didn't understand what the regulation was or didn't know where to go to get a good hair cut or for whatever reason they had, I could cut their hair. But I also told them that they HAD to sign a piece of paper that said you may cut my kid's hair. SO I did end up cutting about 8 kid's hair. Since then, the cadets knew what the regulation was, and they found they felt better with short hair and they all wear an infantry style high and tight (infantry style is with about an inch of hair in the front that fades to the rest of the hair on top for style) just like me.

[HGjunkie]

When I was staioned at Quantico in the early 70's I went into the barbershop to get a "Tapered" haircut in accordance with USMC regulations. While I was being clipped a Colonel decided that my barber wasn't cutting it short enough and ordered the barber to cut it to his standard. When it was time to pay, I had the barber collect from the colonel, because he didn't cut it the way I told him to.  The Colonel paid.

Lol. Did he say anything?

[Eclipse]

OHWG, yes. If you don't meet the grooming standards, which this year was no. 1 cut on top, buzzed everywhere else. Check our encampment website for proof (pics).

http://encampment.ohwg.cap.gov/ 

Encampments do not have the authority to force a haircut beyond the standard as prescribed in 39-1, which is far from a "#1 with a side buzz".

[HGjunkie]

A 2 on the sides and a 4 on the top is usually pretty sharp for regular use, and doesn't make you look goofy at school.

[MSgt Van]

I'd say encampments don't have the authority to force a haircut, period. Gig the kid points, send him home, but force a haircut?! No way.

[GTCommando]

^ I didn't attend this year's encampment. I'm just repeating what I saw on the 2010 website. That's the standard they laid down. I knew about it because I was in the selection process for cadet staff when this went down. Whether or not they forced haircuts, I'm not sure. I've got a couple of guys who were there. I'll ask them and get back with you all.

[tsrup]

I'd say encampments don't have the authority to force a haircut, period. Gig the kid points, send him home, but force a haircut?! No way.

I'd say "force" in this instance is: "Get your hair cut or go home."

I seriously doubt anyone out there is holding down cadets and taking the clippers to them..

[Eclipse]

^ Concur - as with nearly all CAP activities, our option is generally "play nice or leave" (with potential further consequences when they get home).

Our recourse to compel people to do things is either risk your membership / status / CAP job, or risk civil litigation (if you bend a plane, etc.)
Once someone decides their unacceptable behavior has more personal value than membership in good standing, our options become somewhat limited (though to me they also become fairly clear).

The problem with cadets is whether 1 in a line of ten is going to say "no" to the "mandatory" haircut, and mom and dad might not know any better, either.  These kinds of things are why we have CAP-USAF oversight and higher HQ's to vet behavior, but alas, no system is perfect, and sometimes you have to go pretty high before someone says "knock it off"...

[Nathan]

[Accidental post...]

[ES Ninja]

Getting your head shaved at encampment could actually be perceived as hazing.  At one of my Wing's encampments, a SM got into some hot water with another female SM since he shaved her son's head.  The son was a staff cadet and consented, but that just goes to show it's not a good idea to shave people's heads.  (Actually, I think that was the encampment when Mike Kieloch visited our Wing.)

They should have gotten the parents permission, not the cadets.

Okay guys, the solution to the issue discussed in the past two pages is simple. We already have parents sign release forms, travel forms, medication forms, etc. Why not have them also sign a form that says, "I understand that if my son arrives at encampment with hair that does not meet the requirements found in CAPM 39-1 (quote requirements here) he will be taken to the nearest barber for a buzz cut, at his expense." ///signed/// _____________.

Problem solved, no legal ramifications. If the parent doesn't sign the haircut waiver form, their child cannot attend. Est finis.

[Eclipse]

^ Because providing haircuts is not the responsibility of the activity, nor is it even possible in many cases.

If a cadet cannot arrive at an encampment with hair within regs, they don't belong there.

This is part of the personal responsibility we are trying to instill in our cadets, as well as command oversight by their leaders.