Oregon Wing Authorizes New Covert Flightsuit Uniform?

[RADIOMAN015]

Check this out:
http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100106/NEWS/1060316/-1/NEWS07

You would have thought since they knew local paper was going to take a picture, at least have someone in proper CAP uniform in the picture.  Or is this the way they are actually flying CAP aircraft around Terrible picture but excellent narrative.
RM

[lordmonar]

While we lost a little PR value.....let's cut the guy some slack.  He may have just been called from work/play to show off the new plane to the reporter.

[Nick]

Cretian camouflage.  If you want to blend in with a bunch of drunken Greeks, there's nothing better.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Where was a public affairs officer to stem this?

[DG]

Inexcusable.

Take the airplane from them, and give it to a unit who will be interested in advancing CAP.

Unless you are telling me we have so many airplanes that it doesn't matter.

National needs to know about this one.

[jeders]

While we lost a little PR value.....let's cut the guy some slack.  He may have just been called from work/play to show off the new plane to the reporter.

+1

[Seabee219]

  Even if that young man in the photo did come from work, I am sure that you can call the media and set up a time when you can meet them.  IMO, our media does not rush out to a site for a new CAP plane, they call and set up a time, or we call.  I am sure that a CAP member in uniform could have been out there.  Our squadron would love that plane, send it our way.

[Майор Хаткевич]

  Even if that young man in the photo did come from work, I am sure that you can call the media and set up a time when you can meet them.  IMO, our media does not rush out to a site for a new CAP plane, they call and set up a time, or we call.  I am sure that a CAP member in uniform could have been out there.  Our squadron would love that plane, send it our way.

Fellow CAP Capt. Robert Stoltz, 50, of Medford, a retired computer consultant and accountant who has been a pilot for nearly 32 years, is excited about the new aircraft.

*Snickers*

[alamrcn]

Inexcusable. National needs to know about this one.

Where was a public affairs officer to stem this?

Let's hoist up the gallows! 
Next time, he should just hand the newspaper a press kit, a CD-ROM with generic photos, and a recruiting brosure. I'll bet we lost 1000 potential members because of this article that made Civil Air Patrol look so bad. I know I'm quitting this rinky-dink organization right now because of this defamatory Flightsuit-gate incident. Ridiculous.

[/duh]

[Gunner C]

Yep, that's our brand.   Kinda makes you proud.  I think I'll print that out and go show the neighbors what I'm a part of.  Yep that "Air Patrol" looks pretty sharp.

Sheesh.  What a joke.

[SilverEagle2]

So would this have been better?

[Flying Pig]

A more important question, do people really wear hats like that in Oregon?

[DG]

Cut them a break.   He is on his way to the dress rehearsal for Guys & Dolls, even though the sideburns are too short for the CAP-distinctive "Tres Caballeros" uniform he is wearing.

[Майор Хаткевич]

So would this have been better?

NO! I detect a lack of a second bar there.

You must be appointed Captain Pilot Commander to be mentioned in our news articles.

LMAO

[SilverEagle2]

All in due time my young Padawan...

[MIKE]

So would this have been better?

Maybe after the patch was photo chopped. 

[SilverEagle2]

I was afraid that this would be mentioned....I was "told" that as a unit patch it fell within regs.

I have since replaced it.  :angel:

After all, I am on wing staff and that UNIT patch is authorized...



Back on topic, I was hoping to see if the general CAPTalk populous would feel this was a more appropriate representation of the same platform and PR opportunity.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'd say technically maybe, yes and no.

Maybe because you are in a flight suit near an aircraft so it is legit and may have been there for a SAREx/mission at the time.
Yes because the uniform is appropriate to the subject.
No because the Public Affairs types will insist on Blues for media interaction. 

[RiverAux]

No because the Public Affairs types will insist on Blues for media interaction.

Not always the case.  There are quite a few who believe that it is oftentimes more important to show CAP members in "work" uniforms rather than the ones that just look pretty. 

[lordmonar]

I'd say technically maybe, yes and no.

Maybe because you are in a flight suit near an aircraft so it is legit and may have been there for a SAREx/mission at the time.
Yes because the uniform is appropriate to the subject.
No because the Public Affairs types will insist on Blues for media interaction.

I hate when PA dictates uniforms.  Yes the PAO types in most situations should be in blues or corporates....but when the press wants to see CAP in action they want to see BDUs and Flight suits.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Hey, I'm all for showing what we do. But the PAO can be in his blues, while the pilot has the flight suit on for the demonstration.

[wuzafuzz]

I'd say technically maybe, yes and no.

Maybe because you are in a flight suit near an aircraft so it is legit and may have been there for a SAREx/mission at the time.
Yes because the uniform is appropriate to the subject.
No because the Public Affairs types will insist on Blues for media interaction.

I hate when PA dictates uniforms.  Yes the PAO types in most situations should be in blues or corportes....but when the press wants to see CAP in action they want to see BDUs and Flight suits.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Gunner C]

So would this have been better?

YES!

(Just open the hanger doors before engine start) 

[flyerthom]

[quote author=lordmonar link=topic=9622.msg174435#msg174435 date=1262888656

I hate when PA dictates uniforms.  Yes the PAO types in most situations should be in blues or corporates....but when the press wants to see CAP in action they want to see BDUs and Flight suits.
[/quote]

Like you guys would actually pay attention to me 

I think we should submit it as a new uniform combination. That hat is sharp   

[lordmonar]

Like you guys would actually pay attention to me 

I think we should submit it as a new uniform combination. That hat is sharp   

Only if you pomise to get me on the cover of the next Silver Wings!

[Nick]

No because the Public Affairs types will insist on Blues for media interaction.

Not always the case.  There are quite a few who believe that it is oftentimes more important to show CAP members in "work" uniforms rather than the ones that just look pretty.

Public affairs types can insist on blues all they want ... do you really want a pilot getting an action shot IN a plane (not even just standing around it, but actually IN it) wearing blues?  No, the uniform should fit the job at hand.  PA can show up to meet the press with their blues if they want.  A side note -- anyone seen the Sporty's pilot ground school DVD?  They have quite a bit of B-roll showing CAP aircrew standing next to a CAP plane doing flight planning.  Guess what: They were in flight suits.

Actually Eagle, it's a pretty [darn] good picture -- nice and poster boy-style photogenic.  I think it's a good public image versus, I'm sorry guys, but some pictures I see floating out there of an extremely "senior" member in a flight suit that looks like it came through WWII.

[w7sar]

So would this have been better?

Nice photo.

[flyerthom]

Like you guys would actually pay attention to me 

I think we should submit it as a new uniform combination. That hat is sharp   

Only if you pomise to get me on the cover of the next Silver Wings!

Your the centerfold 

I wanna photoshop a wing patch on the dude in this thread for the cover!

Wanna help edit?

[Major Carrales]

No because the Public Affairs types will insist on Blues for media interaction.

Not always the case.  There are quite a few who believe that it is oftentimes more important to show CAP members in "work" uniforms rather than the ones that just look pretty.

Public affairs types can insist on blues all they want ... do you really want a pilot getting an action shot IN a plane (not even just standing around it, but actually IN it) wearing blues?  No, the uniform should fit the job at hand.  PA can show up to meet the press with their blues if they want.  A side note -- anyone seen the Sporty's pilot ground school DVD?  They have quite a bit of B-roll showing CAP aircrew standing next to a CAP plane doing flight planning.  Guess what: They were in flight suits.

Actually Eagle, it's a pretty [darn] good picture -- nice and poster boy-style photogenic.  I think it's a good public image versus, I'm sorry guys, but some pictures I see floating out there of an extremely "senior" member in a flight suit that looks like it came through WWII.

I agree, that the photo should be commiserate to the job at hand.  Should have been flight suit or Golf Shirt. I only insist on "blues" if we are posing for photos of awards (as in if we are getting some plaque or something down at City Hall or in a formal setting).  BDUs for the field types et al.

Now, as for the image.  If it was put out by a CAP-PAO, same on them.  Our folks have to monitor such things and even, at times, display "PhotoShop Wizardry."  But if it was a film or camera crew from the paper hopping by the hangar where people might be at work or come directly from work, civilian clothes photoed by a journalistic photographer can be excused since they are not bound to honor or be obliged by our rules and regulations.

[Nick]

I only insist on "blues" if we are posing for photos of awards (as in if we are getting some plaque or something down at City Hall or in a formal setting).  BDUs for the field types et al.

Absolutely.  I almost insist that members be in blues to receive awards (something stolen from my RM™ level of standards).

[rmcmanus]

McLarty:  Don't knock the "senior "types.  Many have done the great work that allows you to utilize the equipment (new Cessnas, vans, etc) to accomplish your mission today.  If you live long enough and remain in CAP, you'll be there yourself some day.  And please, don't come back with the excuse that you were talking about old or unkept flight suits.  Any disparaging reference to our older members is out of line.

[Майор Хаткевич]

McLarty:  Don't knock the "senior "types.  Many have done the great work that allows you to utilize the equipment (new Cessnas, vans, etc) to accomplish your mission today.  If you live long enough and remain in CAP, you'll be there yourself some day.  And please, don't come back with the excuse that you were talking about old or unkept flight suits.  Any disparaging reference to our older members is out of line.

Actually I think the point was not to knock anyone but point out that a 50-something shows a younger face of the organization than a founding member.

How many 20-30 somethings will want to join an organization that seems to be run by their grandparents?

[rmcmanus]

USAFaux2004:  Regardless of the intent, no segment of our membership should be disparaged!

[Майор Хаткевич]

dis·par·age  (d-sprj)
tr.v. dis·par·aged, dis·par·ag·ing, dis·par·ag·es
1. To speak of in a slighting or disrespectful way; belittle. See Synonyms at decry.
2. To reduce in esteem or rank.

I've seen what he said in RL, and he qualified his statement. Disparage he did not.

[rmcmanus]

Your grammar lesson precisely makes my point.  Does anyone else understand what I meant?

[Eclipse]

So would this have been better?

Yes, 100% with a couple of comments.

Once-over the aircraft before the photo to insure things like decals aren't falling off.

Connect an APU so you can light the displays.

I also agree that the member in the original photo should have been in a uniform of some kind.  In fact, if he had to move the airplane
outside for the photo, he may have bent a reg or two being in civvies.

[SilverEagle2]

APU was installed and the displays are lit. The anti-glare of the G1000 is preventing the camera from getting the screens. (Or perhaps the aperture of the camera  )

As for the decals, problem has been addressed. 

I by no means was touting this personal photo as a perfect example, rather asking if it was MUCH closer to the expectations of the membership here.

[Eclipse]

APU was installed and the displays are lit. The anti-glare of the G1000 is preventing the camera from getting the screens.

Green screen the panels and then send the photo to ILM before allowing the media to use it!

[SilverEagle2]

If I had that budget! I should green screen the outside too! 

Good thoughts though for future consideration

[Camas]

I also agree that the member in the original photo should have been in a uniform of some kind.  In fact, if he had to move the airplane
outside for the photo, he may have bent a reg or two being in civvies.

His commander, who happens to be a friend of mine, is aware of the situation and is dealing with it. 'Nuf said.

[DG]

I also agree that the member in the original photo should have been in a uniform of some kind.  In fact, if he had to move the airplane
outside for the photo, he may have bent a reg or two being in civvies.

His commander, who happens to be a friend of mine, is aware of the situation and is dealing with it. 'Nuf said.

How do you unring a bell?

[Pumbaa]

gnir?

[Strick]

gnir?

[Nick]

McLarty:  Don't knock the "senior "types.  Many have done the great work that allows you to utilize the equipment (new Cessnas, vans, etc) to accomplish your mission today.  If you live long enough and remain in CAP, you'll be there yourself some day.  And please, don't come back with the excuse that you were talking about old or unkept flight suits.  Any disparaging reference to our older members is out of line.

Excuse me.  Don't take what I said and twist it out of context.  I was specifically talking about the public image that has been portrayed in the past with poorly framed and captured "action shots" of a group of members standing around in a gaggle.  If you haven't seen these pictures or know what I'm talking about, then you have no place criticizing me commenting on them.

And if you would like to talk about out of line -- I have nothing but respect for our senior, senior members.  I am simply addressing an issue that has concerned me for quite some time, and it has more to do with the quality control of our PA visual media and nothing to do with the members represented in the pictures.

I have been in this program for 12 years and am fully aware of my aging with and in the program.  I think for you to imply that I was "knocking the 'senior' types" is even more out of line.

[flyguy06]

I actually keep a Fight suit and black shoes in my car in case I get called or need them. this would have been a great reason to justify it. He could have told the reporter "hold on. let me change b4 you start taking pictures"

[Rotorhead]

No because the Public Affairs types will insist on Blues for media interaction.

Not always the case.  There are quite a few who believe that it is oftentimes more important to show CAP members in "work" uniforms rather than the ones that just look pretty.

Public affairs types can insist on blues all they want ... do you really want a pilot getting an action shot IN a plane (not even just standing around it, but actually IN it) wearing blues?  No, the uniform should fit the job at hand.  PA can show up to meet the press with their blues if they want.  A side note -- anyone seen the Sporty's pilot ground school DVD?  They have quite a bit of B-roll showing CAP aircrew standing next to a CAP plane doing flight planning.  Guess what: They were in flight suits.

Actually Eagle, it's a pretty [darn] good picture -- nice and poster boy-style photogenic.  I think it's a good public image versus, I'm sorry guys, but some pictures I see floating out there of an extremely "senior" member in a flight suit that looks like it came through WWII.

I agree, that the photo should be commiserate to the job at hand.  Should have been flight suit or Golf Shirt. I only insist on "blues" if we are posing for photos of awards (as in if we are getting some plaque or something down at City Hall or in a formal setting).  BDUs for the field types et al.

Now, as for the image.  If it was put out by a CAP-PAO, same on them.  Our folks have to monitor such things and even, at times, display "PhotoShop Wizardry."  But if it was a film or camera crew from the paper hopping by the hangar where people might be at work or come directly from work, civilian clothes photoed by a journalistic photographer can be excused since they are not bound to honor or be obliged by our rules and regulations.

The odds that a newspaper photographer just happened to be passing by the airport and randomly stopped in for a photo are ridiculously small.

There's no excuse for this kind of thing. It makes us look less professional. And it is 100% avoidable.

[DG]

What is the "hot dog" level here?

No excuse, and this coming from a guy who notably is on the side of eliminating USAF style uniforms.

But a press / publicity opportunity such as this demands a uniform.

The CAP golf shirt would have been fine.

But not Crocodile Dundee. 

Sad.   

[321EOD]

So would this have been better?

Are you kidding!!!! - I'm sure the peeling sticker on the left of the a/c is a safety hazard!
BTW - yes - I think this would have provided a more professional image.
I agree, good write up, poor choice of 'uniform' (unless we all missed something in Pingree's post about National's recent changes?)

[Strick]

No because the Public Affairs types will insist on Blues for media interaction.

Not always the case.  There are quite a few who believe that it is oftentimes more important to show CAP members in "work" uniforms rather than the ones that just look pretty.

Those type of people need to get over themselves, as for the picture of our LT. , good photo, I could see it being used in the volunteer Magazine

[321EOD]

But not Crocodile Dundee. 

Sad.   

http://www.paramountpictures.co.uk/films/crocodile_dundee_la/images/im_crocodile_dundee_07.jpg

[rmcmanus]

McLarty:  You can write what you wish but your statement: "...I'm sorry guys, but some pictures I see floating out there of an extremely "senior" member in a flight suit that looks like it came through WWII" is certainly no tribute.  You are absolutely correct to wish (as the majority of uf do) that our organization is properly depicted.  My post referred to the off-handed reference to our older members.  And please don't gloat over your 12+ years in CAP.  Although some of us older guys don't have hundreds of posts, that doesn't mean that we aren't long-time members, many of us with more than double your years.

[dogden]

Sounds like a contest of mine is bigger than yours! I agree with Nick, if we want to recruit the a younger group of senior members we need to get away from the pictures of 50+ seniors in all the PA materials. Not that the 50+ crowd doesn't contribute but decide who you want to market to.

[vmstan]

I don't mean to sound "ageist" but I understand where some of the other members are coming from in reference to having the more senior-Senior Members as the face of CAP.

I'm 26. Not a pilot, not ex-military and not a former cadet. I happened to see something about CAP that peaked my interest one day, but when I got online one of the first videos I watched was someone in what seemed to be his late 70s - my first impression was that the organization was for very-retired military types. Thankfully I did some more research and found that there was much more. I mean no disrespect to those members, who I'm sure have served with far greater distinction then I could hope to.

Conversely, it seems like a lot of the CAP web presence is geared towards being a recruiting tool for cadets.

I'm not saying put me out there as the picture perfect image of CAP (my mom says I have a face made for radio) -- but it does have an identity problem of sorts.

That said, the knucklehead in the leisure suit impersonating a CAP officer is embarrassing, and I don't even have all my paperwork back from NHQ yet 

[Gunner C]

I don't mean to sound "ageist" but I understand where some of the other members are coming from in reference to having the more senior-Senior Members as the face of CAP.

There's merit to this.  When the military advertises, it's usually someone between the ages of (approx) 18 and 32"ish".  CAP should do the same.  Our average age right now is close to 40 (not counting cadets).  It should be somewhere closer to 29 or 30.

[SarDragon]

The people in that prime age group are usually the ones least able to participate in CAP. Many are establishing careers, frequently with significant overtime, and starting families, with attendant time and finance constraints. The less carefree folks are pursuing greater life adventures than those provided by CAP.

In order to recruit/keep this demographic segment, there needs to be a better attraction than is currently offered.

That said, aren't we straying horribly from the original topic?

[LTC Don]

Our average age right now is close to 40 (not counting cadets).  It should be somewhere closer to 29 or 30.

Anecdotally speaking, I think it's closer to 60 

Stand at the back of the room as the room fills for your next Wing Conference general assembly, and look at all the grey hair......

I think Grey Hair Patrol moniker fits nicely 


Cheers,