Pre-Solo

rebowman · August 31, 2009, 01:01:14 PM

What are the requirements for pre-solo?

IceNine · August 31, 2009, 02:41:46 PM

The answers you seek are available in CAPR 60-1 and CAPR 35-6

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/forms_publications__regulations/indexes_regulations_and_manuals.cfm

Flying Pig · August 31, 2009, 03:12:53 PM

You have to almost be able to fly by yourself but not really.

MIKE · August 31, 2009, 03:28:51 PM

There aren't any. Pre-solo was removed from the latest CAPR 60-1. See CAPR 60-1 3-7. to not see it.

SilverEagle2 · August 31, 2009, 04:18:46 PM

Good on the removal.

That was a silly badge IMHO.

rebowman · August 31, 2009, 05:40:27 PM

So, "pre-solo" no longer exists in CAP?

MIKE · August 31, 2009, 05:53:58 PM

Essentially yes. CAPR 35-6 refers you to CAPR 60-1, in which the qualification requirements no longer exist. As it was the aeronautical rating of CAP Cadet Pre-solo was only applicable to those cadets who didn't quite solo at a recognized National Flight Academy NCSA. It was a consolation prize.

alamrcn · August 31, 2009, 06:36:34 PM

Hey, Mike -

This might be a bit of work, but can you provide a timeline of the references involved?

It sounded like an older 60-1 had the quals for a pre-solo cert...
Then 35-6 was written for the badge, ref'ing the old 60-1...
Then 60-1 was rewritten omiting the pre-solo cert, and 35-6 has yet to recind the badge (for the original purpose anyway).

If you are able to help document the sequence of events, that would be awesome!

MIKE · August 31, 2009, 07:09:51 PM

Relatively recent Knowledgebase post seems somewhat less restrictive than my recollection of what was in the previous CAPR 60-1.

CASH172 · August 31, 2009, 08:56:42 PM

The NCAC asked the author of the new 60-1 about it after I brought it up a while ago. He said he never intended on it going away, but to make it a completely 35-6 qualification instead. I submitted a proposed write-up and such, but that was several months ago.

Edit: I just looked at the knowledgebase posting and that looks very similar to what I submitted a while back.

A.Member · August 31, 2009, 09:26:34 PM

Quote from: Flying Pig on August 31, 2009, 03:12:53 PM
You have to almost be able to fly by yourself but not really.

LOL!

Quote from: SilverEagle2 on August 31, 2009, 04:18:46 PM
Good on the removal.

That was a silly badge IMHO.

x2!

rebowman · September 01, 2009, 06:14:43 PM

So, it does exist?

How are we supposed to know the requirements for it if it is no longer in the regulation?

flyguy06 · September 01, 2009, 07:32:50 PM

Quote from: rebowman on September 01, 2009, 06:14:43 PM
So, it does exist?

How are we supposed to know the requirements for it if it is no longer in the regulation?

Dont worry. If you earnit they wil give it to you. I believe it can only be earned at a NFA. I dont think you can just go out onm your own and "pre solo" and start wearing the badge. The people at the NFA know the requirements.

I know a cadet that got it this summer at a glider encampment.

I think its silly anda slap in the face to the cadets that worked hard and "actually" soloed. The pre solo badge is saying "well, you didnt quite meet the requirements but we dont want you to feel bad so here is a badge to wear" Meanwhile it dialutes the actual accomplishments of those that worked hard and met the FAA standard.

notaNCO forever · September 01, 2009, 07:37:57 PM

I was told by a cadet that attended NFA twice, got pre-solo year one, and solo year two that for pre-solo the instructor sits in the back and has no control but is still in the plane and for solo wings they, of course, solo. I was also told most first year NFA students don't solo and thats why they have pre-solo wings. I believe that if this is the case than cadets should receive pre-solo wings; since, in my opinion, pre-solo is still an acomplishment worthy of something.

flyguy06 · September 01, 2009, 07:41:54 PM

It teaches that "almost" meeting the standard will get you some bling and some cadets just want bling so if they can get by "almost" meeting the standard they wil strive for that. In todays society we are not teaching our young people to give their best. We are telling them "well, if you try and and dont make it we will still give you bling"

Its a totally differtn feeling flying knowing there is a qialifed instructor in case something goes wrong and flying by yourself. Its a different mindset. You can "pre-solo" but psycologically you know in the back of your mind thatif something goes wrong you will be saved by the instructor. Actually soloing its all on you. Different feeling.

DC · September 01, 2009, 07:46:12 PM

My understanding is that cadets who could have soloed, but were not able to due to time or weather constraints are the ones given the Pre-Solo wings. They are capable of soloing, but for whatever reason did not have the opportunity.

Yes, it is a consolation prize, but it's not for those who were incapable of meeting the standard.

D2SK · September 01, 2009, 07:47:10 PM

Quote from: flyguy06 on September 01, 2009, 07:41:54 PM
It teaches that "almost" meeting the standard will get you some bling and some cadets just want bling so if they can get by "almost" meeting the standard they wil strive for that. In todays society we are not teaching our young people to give their best. We are telling them "well, if you try and and dont make it we will still give you bling"

Its a totally differtn feeling flying knowing there is a qialifed instructor in case something goes wrong and flying by yourself. Its a different mindset. You can "pre-solo" but psycologically you know in the back of your mind thatif something goes wrong you will be saved by the instructor. Actually soloing its all on you. Different feeling.

You know what they say about opinions...

Did you give it your best when you typed this message? Might want to try spell check the next time you disparage every single cadet who earned a pre-solo badge.

Must have gone to a public school...

notaNCO forever · September 01, 2009, 07:49:12 PM

Quote from: flyguy06 on September 01, 2009, 07:41:54 PM
It teaches that "almost" meeting the standard will get you some bling and some cadets just want bling so if they can get by "almost" meeting the standard they wil strive for that. In todays society we are not teaching our young people to give their best. We are telling them "well, if you try and and dont make it we will still give you bling"

Its a totally differtn feeling flying knowing there is a qialifed instructor in case something goes wrong and flying by yourself. Its a different mindset. You can "pre-solo" but psycologically you know in the back of your mind thatif something goes wrong you will be saved by the instructor. Actually soloing its all on you. Different feeling.

The way I look at it is that their are two separate qualifications solo and pre-solo. The pre-solo wings are given for having the knowledge and capability to fly a plane without help but with an instructor in the plane, and solo is given for being competent enough to fly on your own. I agree that CAP might have to much bling in some areas, but I don't think this is one of them. Their is easier ways for a bling seeker to get bling if that is all they want.

notaNCO forever · September 01, 2009, 07:51:08 PM

Quote from: D2SK on September 01, 2009, 07:47:10 PM

Must have gone to a public school...

That's just a low blow.

DC · September 01, 2009, 08:05:44 PM

Quote from: notaNCO forever on September 01, 2009, 07:49:12 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on September 01, 2009, 07:41:54 PM
It teaches that "almost" meeting the standard will get you some bling and some cadets just want bling so if they can get by "almost" meeting the standard they wil strive for that. In todays society we are not teaching our young people to give their best. We are telling them "well, if you try and and dont make it we will still give you bling"

Its a totally differtn feeling flying knowing there is a qialifed instructor in case something goes wrong and flying by yourself. Its a different mindset. You can "pre-solo" but psycologically you know in the back of your mind thatif something goes wrong you will be saved by the instructor. Actually soloing its all on you. Different feeling.

The way I look at it is that their are two separate qualifications solo and pre-solo. The pre-solo wings are given for having the knowledge and capability to fly a plane without help but with an instructor in the plane, and solo is given for being competent enough to fly on your own. I agree that CAP might have to much bling in some areas, but I don't think this is one of them. Their is easier ways for a bling seeker to get bling if that is all they want.

What's the difference? I understand there is a psychological difference between having an instructor next to you and being alone, but as far as your skills are concerned, what's the difference?

The day I soloed my instructor and I went up together, went around the pattern a few times, did a few touch and goes, and then he got out and I soloed. My abilities as a pilot did not change when he departed the aircraft, I didn't have to do anything different when I was alone that I hadn't done 10 minutes earlier with him in the plane.

Pre-Solo is for being competent enough to solo, Solo is for actually soloing. Two cadets who have gone through NFA together and leave with either Solo or Pre-Solo wings are probably equally skilled pilots (not accounting for any previous experience), but only one got the opportunity to put it to use.