Tuck in your Polo

[DC]

Ahem...

At least.. this guy has it tucked in. ;-)

http://peopleofwalmart.com/?p=2191

There are no words...

[PHall]

Ahem...

At least.. this guy has it tucked in. ;-)

http://peopleofwalmart.com/?p=2191

There are no words...

I'll give him points for not showing his "Plumber's Cleavage".

[wingnut55]

Oh my G&% , you guys  un-tucked in shirt  mass hysteria guys are being absolutely childish. If the Regulation says heat is the only reason to untuck the shirt, but it only applies on the flight line?? Maybe national needs to change that, they seem to spend 50% of the National Board meetings talking about Uniform Clothing and who is going to be a General.

Shutting down an entire squadron is abuse of authority, This entire organization is 40% morbidly obese members, who look like walking bowling balls when they tuck in their shirts. When the heat is 110 degrees give them a break National. How about un-tuck at 90 Degrees.

I have never seen a Group Commander come to a squadron meeting and lead by example, instill esprit de corp. Heck most squadron commanders I know did not want the job and absolutely want out.

You wonder why 2,000 hour pilots say 'I don't need this Crap"? Their answer: Because some George S. Patton wanabes are in CAP, the rules are often vague or ignored all the way up the chain (Until something goes wrong).

If we want to be more military than we need to redo the Senior member training, have an Officers academy that means something. Teach them military courtesy and customs. Have a meaningful professional development academy.

Most new members come into CAP and are gently told that we are Kind of military like in nature, but not really.

As a former cadet from the 70s I have seen CAP go through constant change, but the Cadet Corp has maintained proper Uniform mentality all along. Maybe we should get ride of the Golf shirt and go to Blue BDUs for every one. They make them in Nomex too so we can get rid of the flight suit.

Sorry I am venting.

As Group commander I would have just shot them all and billed the Family for the Bullet comrade!!

  :clap:

[John Bryan]

Wow.....4 pages about tucking in the golf shirt. An interesting read.

But the larger issue is, are we going to follow the CAP Core Values (Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence, and Respect). If yes then we need to have integrity. When we sign or speak a promise we MUST keep it.

CAPF 12 (senior application) says:

"I voluntarily subscribe to the objectives and purposes of the Civil Air Patrol and agree to be guided by CAP Core Values, Ethics Policies, Constitution & Bylaws, Regulations and all applicable Federal, State, and Local Laws."

When I sign off that I will agree to be guided by the CAP's regulations then I must follow them, no matter how dumb they might seem. If I can't keep my word on little things then it won't be long before I compromise on larger and larger issues.

[Hawk200]

Wow.....4 pages about tucking in the golf shirt. An interesting read.

But the larger issue is, are we going to follow the CAP Core Values (Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence, and Respect). If yes then we need to have integrity. When we sign or speak a promise we MUST keep it.

CAPF 12 (senior application) says:

"I voluntarily subscribe to the objectives and purposes of the Civil Air Patrol and agree to be guided by CAP Core Values, Ethics Policies, Constitution & Bylaws, Regulations and all applicable Federal, State, and Local Laws."

When I sign off that I will agree to be guided by the CAP's regulations then I must follow them, no matter how dumb they might seem. If I can't keep my word on little things then it won't be long before I compromise on larger and larger issues.

:clap:

[wingnut55]

Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence, and Respect

Are those National HQ values, Wing Values, Group and Squadron or only apply to the individual members. We have been struggling as an organization to improve our horrible reputation of not meeting these core values. In many wings the members at the top are not the cream of the crop, but rather classic examples of the "Peter Principle".

Having a four page debate over Tucked in Golf Shirts is just an example of how paralyzed we are as an organization. Saying a member ( experienced Pilot) who refuses to tuck should be kicked out because he Lacks Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence  and Respect !!

now that is pathetic and if the general Public became aware of it it would severely damage our already damaged reputation in the Emergency services world.

But hey just because I have flown over 400 hours for CAP in the last 3 years? and as Sgt Schultz would say " I KNOW NOTHING".  I would say that CAP is somewhere between F troop, Hogan Heroes, and Team America world Police.

Yet I have Hope

[Pumbaa]

Having a four page debate over Tucked in Golf Shirts is just an example of how paralyzed we are as an organization.

Thank you!

Thus my remarks in the "SOCK" thread..

I PO'd someone when I said I would wear my shirt untucked, Any color sock with my BDU's and then wear my flight suit with a goatee.

They totally missed the point.

This organization has become a joke, it is not the CAP I remember from the 70's.  I am in the process of moving to Virginia since I am now at the U.S. Joint Forces Command.  At this point I am thinking of not joining a local squadron.  I might just pay my dues and be a ghost.. Then again I might just decide to drop.

These forums ARE a reflection of CAP, it is one of the more active and vocal outlets for CAP members.  HQ has been relatively unresponsive to the needs and requests of their volunteers.  Thus this has become the defacto outlet.

When a multi-million dollar organization cannot get it's act together to even update the 39-1 (It's  been 4.5 years) then there is a MAJOR problem.

Regulations are important?  Then update the Friggen regs instead of a boatload of disjointed interim change letters.

As a corporation, I would give it failing marks on lack of delivery to their customers (Volunteers).  And yes, WE are the customers of the corporation.  On the AF side, CAP is failing it's customer as well.. The A.F.!!!

[John Bryan]

Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence, and Respect

Are those National HQ values, Wing Values, Group and Squadron or only apply to the individual members. We have been struggling as an organization to improve our horrible reputation of not meeting these core values. In many wings the members at the top are not the cream of the crop, but rather classic examples of the "Peter Principle".

Having a four page debate over Tucked in Golf Shirts is just an example of how paralyzed we are as an organization. Saying a member ( experienced Pilot) who refuses to tuck should be kicked out because he Lacks Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence  and Respect !!

now that is pathetic and if the general Public became aware of it it would severely damage our already damaged reputation in the Emergency services world.

But hey just because I have flown over 400 hours for CAP in the last 3 years? and as Sgt Schultz would say " I KNOW NOTHING".  I would say that CAP is somewhere between F troop, Hogan Heroes, and Team America world Police.

Yet I have Hope

Life is unfair. The CAP, as all organizations is not perfect. We have good leaders and bad leaders. The fact that others choose not to follow the core values is not any reason for me to give up. Its not a reason for me to break my promises.

"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
Mark Twain

[Gunner C]

Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence, and Respect

Are those National HQ values, Wing Values, Group and Squadron or only apply to the individual members. We have been struggling as an organization to improve our horrible reputation of not meeting these core values. In many wings the members at the top are not the cream of the crop, but rather classic examples of the "Peter Principle".

Having a four page debate over Tucked in Golf Shirts is just an example of how paralyzed we are as an organization. Saying a member ( experienced Pilot) who refuses to tuck should be kicked out because he Lacks Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence  and Respect !!

now that is pathetic and if the general Public became aware of it it would severely damage our already damaged reputation in the Emergency services world.

But hey just because I have flown over 400 hours for CAP in the last 3 years? and as Sgt Schultz would say " I KNOW NOTHING".  I would say that CAP is somewhere between F troop, Hogan Heroes, and Team America world Police.

Yet I have Hope

Maybe you're right - if a pilot refuses to go along with the standards, then we'll just have to kneel down, kiss his butt, and say "Please mister pilot, sir!  Don't leave!  We can't get along without you and your bad attitude."  Or maybe we should do this:  have a graduated standard by pilot-in-command hours:

• Under 100 hours - you'd better have your uniform on, spit shine the bottom of your shoes
• 100 to 500 hours - have a uniform for every occasion; if that's too much, then you're outta here
• 500 to 1000 hours - you can wear whatever uniform you want; mess dress to PT gear is OK
• 1000 to 2000 hours - wanna fly in shower shoes?  no problem!  we need you!  you're irreplaceable!
• 2000 to 5000 hours - what do you want me to wear?  I'm not gonna tell you anything!  You are a sky-god!
• 5000 to 10,000 hours - don't even care if you're too heavy to be in weight and balance.  I'll buy your gas, just don't go away

[heliodoc]

Yup

Socks and untucked polo shirts

A sure way to spark the Core Values.  Its great if the "leadership" can adhere to it as well as the general membership.

Core Values are a great thing as long as one remembers to not use it so frequently to become CAP buzzword

I would imagine that this website sure impresses the USAF folk out there.   

More reason for MA Blue to say to CAP....you are a 501 (c)3 ..Go "Git" your own uniform....... could happen

How would that impress those CAP folk that want to wear the AF uniform, huh??

[Hawk200]

OK, heliodoc, what's your beef with CAP? Most of your posts are pretty negative. Why? You seem to advocate ignoring rules. Care to share your reasons?

[heliodoc]

Don't even start, Hawk

I for onedo not know you and you do not know me.

For 22 yrs I wore the uniform of this nation correctly and wear the CAP uni correctly

Negative...$%^^& right!  This organization needs a rework and if you can not see it ...too bad

Sock wear has got nothing to do with core values.  If CAPers are going this route..... they need something more constructive to do

Positive enough for ya?  Thanks for your time and service Hawk.

Hopefully this thread gets LOCKED...folks  defending "Core Values" and sock wear need some more education,

So if you think I advocate ignoring rules, you are completely wrong.  Most of the CAPers here are hung up on one thing or another...and it is generally around Bling and uniforms, like that is the only thread holding CAP together...

Apparently it is and for the folks who never wore a RM uniform,,,,this is one lame website that just continues to amaze me  and I got friends on AD that view this group as pretty petty and childish

Ignore the rules?  NOPE.  Just reading the freaking out that goes on here

[Nick]

22 rolling eyes smilies?  Really guy?  I think your message hath been received.  Focus on big picture, accomplish mission, ignore the small details, CAP is jacked up.  Roger.

[Spike]

To bring it to conclusion (which it needs), I politely told my member who has been refusing to tuck in the polo that he must tuck it in.  He stood there for a moment, and complied.

I needed no intimidation tactics, harsh words or punishments.  I did not shut down the Squadron, nor did I punish others for this guys fail. 

Thanks everyone for enlightening me, it was enjoyable. 

Now lets go on over to the sock thread and bash red sock wearing weirdos.   :clap:

[Hawk200]

I for onedo not know you and you do not know me.

True, but I know negativity when I see it. So does everyone else.

For 22 yrs I wore the uniform of this nation correctly and wear the CAP uni correctly

And for almost 21 I've done the same. You want to try to tell me that your opinion is superior to mine because of your plus one?

This organization needs a rework and if you can not see it ...too bad

I know it needs a rework. We need to start by canning all the fools that rationalize their lack of integrity by diminishing any rule they choose to ignore. Then we can move on to the ones that think that membership is their right, instead of a duty.

We could really be something if our membership in general would decide to work as a team with a mission, instead of a cheap flying club.

Sock wear has got nothing to do with core values.  If CAPers are going this route..... they need something more constructive to do

And as mentioned, sock wear isn't the issue. Following our own rules is. The outsiders see this. They know we're jacked up. What are we going to do about it collectively? We can start by training our new members. Teach them that this is an organization with a mission, and train them to be part of a team.

Positive enough for ya? 

Positive? Not really. But at least it's honest. We got problems. So what are you going to do about it? Keep sniping at those "meaningless" priorities, or make some suggestions for change?

Hopefully this thread gets LOCKED...folks  defending "Core Values" and sock wear need some more education,

Not if they're defending core values. The sock wear is simply a manner of following rules. We all know that discounting minor rules, reagardless of what they are, is where the problems begin. OK, so maybe someone can't see socks. Does the person wearing them have the integrity to do the right thing anyway?

There are numerous cases where the wrong thing keeps getting tolerated. Today, it's socks. Tomorrow, it's the wrong T-shirt. Next week, it's brown hiking boots. Next month, it's a leather belt with blues. In six months, it's a safety practice disregarded. Next year, it's a potentially embarrassing procedure ignored. The year after that, someone gets injured because the wrong thing was done.

It all started because the little rule got diminished. I'm assuming you've got, or had, kids. Did you keep letting them get away with the little things? CAP is the same way. Demand the compliance and accountability now.

So if you think I advocate ignoring rules, you are completely wrong.  Most of the CAPers here are hung up on one thing or another...and it is generally around Bling and uniforms, like that is the only thread holding CAP together...

The uniform is the obvious issue. You know how it was AD, you looked like crap, and people automatically assumed the worst opinion of you. Your first impression was the one you had working for, or against, you.

Read back on this board aways. Find the story on the Air Force evaluator that was asked why CAP can't wear a virtually identical uniform to the Air Force. Read about that evaluator pulling out a photo of an excessively overweight senior that was wearing pointy toed cowboy boots and a bolo tie, and who knows what else. Then tell me that there's "No way that ever happened!". Tell me what happened the next time a mission came up. Think we got it?

Apparently it is and for the folks who never wore a RM uniform,,,,this is one lame website that just continues to amaze me  and I got friends on AD that view this group as pretty petty and childish

I think there's plenty of stupidity here. Starting with the lack of integrity, the members that don't realize that they're part of something greater, the ones only here to fly, and the ones that ignore history and are doomed to repeat it. What are we going to do about? Because it's not my job, or yours, it's ours.

[Strick]

After reading this post............  #@#$%^**&^%^%$&**((  Just tuck in the %#$^%& polo shirt.