Promoted ?

[Daniel]

Hello everyone,

This week has been special for me.  I became eligable for promotion to C/SrA. Which is where the confusion begins

Here are the facts:

1) I took an AE module and passed with an 89 or so.
2) I took chaper 3 in 21st century leadership passed with a 93
3) I attended 2 pt sessions
3.2) My 60 days was over the 11th
4) Eservices now indentifies me as 'C/SrA'

but I have recieved no email from national and my track record has zeros in all the places for the mary fiek and claims I'm not active.

[DC]

Did you pass your CPFT, or are you on a different Physical Category because of your medical condition?

What is your 'track record'? And does your squadron do a promotions board w/ a CAPF 50?

I don't know exactly how your unit is run, but usually someone will at least let you know you've been officially promoted and can wear the new stripe. At my squadron we do an official promotion ceremony with the Curry and all the milestones, and announce the other promotions at opening formation the following week.

[Daniel]

Did you pass your CPFT, or are you on a different Physical Category because of your medical condition?

What is your 'track record'? And does your squadron do a promotions board w/ a CAPF 50?

I don't know exactly how your unit is run, but usually someone will at least let you know you've been officially promoted and can wear the new stripe. At my squadron we do an official promotion ceremony with the Curry and all the milestones, and announce the other promotions at opening formation the following week.

The track record is offered in eservices

and we just let the commander do the promotion decisions

[Airrace]

All squadrons do things a little bit differently.

First check with your element leader and if you don't get an answer then use the chain of command and go talk with the next person in line in the chain of command.

[majdomke]

When using the Cadet Promotions application, it's not necessary to put scores in to promote someone. You just used the Admin tool and then select the check box to promote w/o them. This only works up to Mitchell however.

btw... its impossible to have an 89 or 93 on these tests because there are 25 questions and each question is worth 4 points. 88 or 92 perhaps... either way, I agree... you should be told officially you are promoted. The eServices part is just our effort to keep records electronically. Until they get a good way of doing them, ie integration with SIMS, then you need to rely on the squadron paper/electronic copies for everything.

[Daniel]

All squadrons do things a little bit differently.

First check with your element leader and if you don't get an answer then use the chain of command and go talk with the next person in line in the chain of command.

I AM my element leader ...

I've already called my commander once today

[Flying Pig]

Give him time to get back to you.  Or see your commander at the next meeting.  At times, members (myself included) dont have a whole lot of time outside of meetings to deal with CAP issues.  It will get resolved.  And then youll get all of your back pay when it does!

[lordmonar]

Okay....

If EServices says you are a C/SrA then someone entered that data in the system.  So I would say that you are infact a C/SrA.

Having said that......Check with your unit leadership before putting on your stripes.

Now...for the off topic comments.

1.  It is 56 days (8 weeks) between normal promotions not 60.
2.  It is necessary to PASS your PT tests not just attend them.
3.  You did not mention anything about Character Development or Active Participation.
4.  Finally just because you filled all the required blocks does not mean you are promoted...it still requires commander's (or DCC's) sign off before you are promoted.

[ßτε]

1.  It is 56 days (8 weeks) between normal promotions not 60.

I'm not sure where you are getting 56 days from. My CAPR 52-16 states 2 months.

All other achievements require a minimum separation of 2 months (approximately 8 weeks) between each achievement and milestone award (except as noted for JROTC in chapter 6).

[IceNine]

52-16 says 2 months (Approx 8 weeks)

So at the end of the day it's going to be another completely subjective decision by the local commander.

As little as 56 as much as 62.  The Reality of the situation is that commanders are going to promote on a meeting night somewhere close to the 60 day mark, which would be my argument for why they left that particular portion subjective

[Daniel]

2.  It is necessary to PASS your PT tests not just attend them.
4.  Finally just because you filled all the required blocks does not mean you are promoted...it still requires commander's (or DCC's) sign off before you are promoted.

@2.. I am CAT IV they just ask that I attend and get into position.

@4 I know that. But if they didn't promote me why would eservices call me C/SrA

[IceNine]

Patience (pā-shəns) is the state of endurance under difficult circumstances, which can mean persevering in the face of delay or provocation without becoming annoyed or upset

[Cecil DP]

Could it just be that the Commander is waiting for an awards or promotions night so that he can have  1 big ceremony for everyone?

[lordmonar]

1.  It is 56 days (8 weeks) between normal promotions not 60.

I'm not sure where you are getting 56 days from. My CAPR 52-16 states 2 months.

All other achievements require a minimum separation of 2 months (approximately 8 weeks) between each achievement and milestone award (except as noted for JROTC in chapter 6).

National headquarters via knowlegebase told us that the standard is 8 weeks vice two months. This is so you can establish a schedule.  If cadet X is promoted on a tuesday then in 8 weeks later he is ready to promote again insttead of having to until the following Friday which whould havmean he would have to wait until the next tuesday anyway so his promotion time is now 63 days.   The word "month" is too vague.  Is that 30 days?  or does that mean if you get promoted on 1 Jany you are eligble for promotion on 1 March event though Feb only has 28 days?  But a week is a week, 7 days.  Even in short months it is 7 days.  So it makes it fair and even and cadets don't loose time due to the fact that we meet on a weekly schedule vice a monthly one.

[NC Hokie]

National headquarters via knowlegebase told us that the standard is 8 weeks vice two months.

I'm no fan of using the knowledgebase for regulatory guidance, but this is the standard enforced by the Cadet Promotions application in eServices.

[majdomke]

When using the online eServices admin or SIMS, it won't let you promote until 2 months have passed. Ie. promoted on 12 AUG 09, next promotion date could be no sooner than 12 OCT 09 irregardless of how many days are in each month. This of course is different with JROTC cadets who might be able to promote every month depending.

[davidsinn]

When using the online eServices admin or SIMS, it won't let you promote until 2 months have passed. Ie. promoted on 12 AUG 09, next promotion date could be no sooner than 12 OCT 09 irregardless of how many days are in each month. This of course is different with JROTC cadets who might be able to promote every month depending.

I don't use SIMS but that's not how eServices does it. It's 56 days. I've done promotions that fast before and I always do them on a Thursday night so it's easier to keep track of. I always use the system to avoid snafus.

[majdomke]

The regulation is pretty clear on this:
"Cadets may complete Achievement 1 any time after joining CAP. They may attempt the Spaatz Award exam any time after completing Phase IV (see paragraph 2-8g). All other achievements require a minimum separation of 2 months (approximately 8 weeks) between each achievement and milestone award (except as noted for JROTC in chapter 6)."

Previously the reg was 60 days but was changed to two months. I don't see how you could say any particular number of days based on that since there are different numbers of days in some months.

I guess if you think your way is correct, mention it to the IG officer when they come in for your inspection. Let them decided if you're doing it right.

[lordmonar]

All I know is that NATIONAL says 56 days.  I know the regulation says something else....but what are you going to do?

[majdomke]

Can you point me to the info from NHQ on this?

[lordmonar]

Type in "how long between cadet promotions" into knowledge base and it is answer 315 IIRC.

[davidsinn]

Besides the fact that I have inputted a promotion into the system 56 days after the last one and it accepted it.

[majdomke]

Yes, it will allow you because you are using the admin feature. By way of regulations, incorrect answers in the CAP Knowledgebase withstanding, promotions are no sooner than 2 months. You can either follow what the regulations say or go it your own way. Don't say you weren't warned or that people on this board won't seek an investigation. I've sent off an email to NHQ asking them to correct their answers since they are leading people astray.

[davidsinn]

Yes, it will allow you because you are using the admin feature. By way of regulations, incorrect answers in the CAP Knowledgebase withstanding, promotions are no sooner than 2 months. You can either follow what the regulations say or go it your own way. Don't say you weren't warned or that people on this board won't seek an investigation. I've sent off an email to NHQ asking them to correct their answers since they are leading people astray.

I've been using the data entry feature for the past year. We only used admin to get it caught up when it first came online. Two months is a vague term and can be as short as 56 days or as long as 63 depending on which months and what days it falls on. Regardless of how you interpret a poorly written reg the fact is the system is designed to work on eight week intervals.

[SarDragon]

I see some references to two months being as long as 63 days. Someone help me with the math here. I can only get a max of 62 days.

[Cecil DP]

Promoted July 1,  31 days in July, 31 days in Aug, Promoted again on Sep 1 = 63 days. I prefer the 8 week definition for promotions better.

[SarDragon]

Ah, common error. You shouldn't count the first promotion day itself.. One day elapsed from 1 July takes us to 2 July. And so on. Subtract 1 July from 1 Sep in an Excel spreadsheet, as dates, and see what you get - 62.

But I do agree with 8 weeks as being the best way to go on this.

[lordmonar]

Yes, it will allow you because you are using the admin feature. By way of regulations, incorrect answers in the CAP Knowledgebase withstanding, promotions are no sooner than 2 months. You can either follow what the regulations say or go it your own way. Don't say you weren't warned or that people on this board won't seek an investigation. I've sent off an email to NHQ asking them to correct their answers since they are leading people astray.

Warned?  By who.....if national says it is okay to promote every 8 weeks....who is going to get mad at me?  Go ahead and start and IG investigation.  As for sending a letter off to national....I can see the answer now......KB is considered gospel by National 90% of the time.

[IceNine]

READ WHAT THE REG SAYS.  Don't remove the parts that make your argument correct.

2 Months (Approx 8 Weeks)

There is no defined number of days anywhere in the reg.  Period.

It says 2 months which can equal as much as 62 days.

OR approx 8 weeks which is 56 days.

Therefore a cadet promotion that happens beyond the 56 day range is legal by the letter of the reg.

[Daniel]

READ WHAT THE REG SAYS.  Don't remove the parts that make your argument correct.

2 Months (Approx 8 Weeks)

There is no defined number of days anywhere in the reg.  Period.

It says 2 months which can equal as much as 62 days.

OR approx 8 weeks which is 56 days.

Therefore a cadet promotion that happens beyond the 56 day range is legal by the letter of the reg.

My brothers and sisters, let us turn to the gospel of CAPF 52-1.

Which states two terms for promotion on it

1.    Each achievement will be completed in numerical sequence and then dated and signed by the unit commander or deputy commander of cadets. the cadet also signs on the appropriate line

2.     Except for achievement one, achievements may not be completed at less then a 60 day interval. phase 1 may not be completed less then 6 months from the date the cadet joined CAP

[NC Hokie]

My brothers and sisters, let us turn to the gospel of CAPF 52-1.

Which states two terms for promotion on it

1.    Each achievement will be completed in numerical sequence and then dated and signed by the unit commander or deputy commander of cadets. the cadet also signs on the appropriate line

2.     Except for achievement one, achievements may not be completed at less then a 60 day interval. phase 1 may not be completed less then 6 months from the date the cadet joined CAP

+1 for going to the regs.  However...

There is no 52-1 on the Forms and Publications section of the national website.  Perhaps you mean 52-16?  If so, you're looking at an out of date copy, as neither of those statements show up in the most current revision (1 Oct 06 w/ Change 1 of 1 Jul 09).

Also, if you're gonna quote the gospel, please be kind enough to give chapter and verse (better known as the paragraph reference, such as 2-2c).  Makes it much easier for us Bereans (that's a real Bible reference) to verify the quote.

[jimmydeanno]

There is no 52-1 on the Forms and Publications section of the national website. 

He's talking about CAP FORM CAPF 52-1.  It's the one that people who don't use the online system (now) use to record their cadets promotions, sign off on each one, fax it to NHQ for record and phase certification.

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/capf052_001_D904BA1506749.doc

[NC Hokie]

He's talking about CAP FORM CAPF 52-1.

DOH!  Epic fail for the L-T.  Carry on, Squid.

[Daniel]

Update:

I got my ribbon 8/20

I also failed the Wright Brothers test then too.

[Spike]

^ Don't rush into testing, just to test.  You failed, which means you do not understand the material.  Go back, take 2 months to reread everything and ask questions. 

[DC]

^ Don't rush into testing, just to test.  You failed, which means you do not understand the material.  Go back, take 2 months to reread everything and ask questions.

+1

Just because you can promote every two months doesn't mean you should. Most cadets that do this do not develop the proper leadership skills or gain enough experience to perform at a level commensurate with their rank. Take your time, learn, experience, and remember that not everything in life should be done like a 100m Dash.

[lordmonar]

^ Don't rush into testing, just to test.  You failed, which means you do not understand the material.  Go back, take 2 months to reread everything and ask questions.

+1

Just because you can promote every two months doesn't mean you should. Most cadets that do this do not develop the proper leadership skills or gain enough experience to perform at a level commensurate with their rank. Take your time, learn, experience, and remember that not everything in life should be done like a 100m Dash.

Just because you pass a test does not mean we have to promote you.

Don't blame the fact that some cadets promote too fast on the cadets.  It is the commander's responsibilty his DCC andhis cadet staff's responbilitby to withhold promotion if the cadet is has not "develop the proper leadership skills or gain enough experince to perform at a level commensurate with their rank".

[DC]

That's absolutely true, unfortunately far too many squadron commanders are terrified of hurting their cadets' feelings or incurring the wrath of an angry parent if they decide to hold a cadet back. Too few people realize that getting promoted in the cadet program is a privilege and not an entitlement earned by passing written tests.

[Daniel]

Ok, so now I'm a bad cadet because I failed the Wright brothers test by 1-percent point
(%79)

You guys jump to A LOT of conclusions by the little things someone says.

Also, you guys would be insulted if I said "Just  because you got promoted doesn't mean you deserve it."

I honestly just want you to think about that, you guys have never seen my leadership skills. My commander didn't actually promote a couple cadets that were 'eligable' this week, actually they had taken all thier tests.

[arajca]

Ok, so now I'm a bad cadet because I failed the Wright brothers test by 1-percent point
(%79)

No one said you're a bad cadet. They said you didn't have full understanding of the material you were tested on. Big difference.

Also, you guys would be insulted if I said "Just  because you got promoted doesn't mean you deserve it."

Mostly not. You'd be surprised how often that is said.

I honestly just want you to think about that, you guys have never seen my leadership skills.

You're right. All WE have to go by is what is posted here. That definitely does not produce a full knowledge of anyone.

My commander didn't actually promote a couple cadets that were 'eligable' this week, actually they had taken all thier tests.

Good on your commander. That is something that very rarely happens in CAP.

[Daniel]

All I'm saying is remember the golden rule of assumptions.  Its really a good thing to live by, and I thought the military had a saying "Assume nothing"?

[lordmonar]

All I'm saying is remember the golden rule of assumptions.  Its really a good thing to live by, and I thought the military had a saying "Assume nothing"?

Also remember the other "golden rule" of talking to your superiors. 

Often on this forum a comment made by someone will be picked up by the old farts as their pet peeve and will be thrashed about.

Hence the reason why I told them not to blame the cadets.  No one was attacking you directly but you sort of stumbled into one of the many mine fields here on CAPTALK.

You should test and progress in your cadet career as soon as you can.  Don't ever pass up and opportunity to get your blocks filled.  So it is good you tested as soon as you were able.  But don't be put off if you platue and your commander has you wait a month or too.  Also you need to be really prepared to take your test.  Don't waste your or the test adminstrator's time if you have not prepared for the test.

Study, learn, lead and particpate.

good luck