Question..

[BrandonKea]

   You might be surprised what your parents would do if you were permanently injured or disabled.

God beat you and my commander to the punch xD

...huh?

[Daniel]

I'm disabled. I have mild cerebral palsy.

Its not big, just thought It was kinda funny.

[BrandonKea]

I'm disabled. I have mild cerebral palsy.

Its not big, just thought It was kinda funny.

Oh, ok...

[MSG Mac]

I'm going to go ahead and say this was a big non-no.  YMMV

CAP Cadets are not a free labor pool, friend or otherwise.  The fact that more than one other member was there makes it worse, and if something happened, trying to convince an IG or other court that this wasn't a CAP activity isn't going to fly.

As to the actual question - Sir's and Ma'am's are appropriate.  That person is still your commander, and an adult - its doesn't matter what they are wearing.

How in the world could this be construed as a CAP activity? If I go out to Chilli's after a meeting with my squadron commander, is that a CAP activity? If I see him at the store, is that suddenly a CAP activity?

There have been several instances where a CAP member was injured while at a "Non" CAP affair which was called  by their Commander. When they get hurt at the activity, lawyers tend to say, The Captain or Commander asked them to do this so it is a CAP Activity. lawyers tend to file against the largest pocket.

[BrandonKea]

I'm going to go ahead and say this was a big non-no.  YMMV

CAP Cadets are not a free labor pool, friend or otherwise.  The fact that more than one other member was there makes it worse, and if something happened, trying to convince an IG or other court that this wasn't a CAP activity isn't going to fly.

As to the actual question - Sir's and Ma'am's are appropriate.  That person is still your commander, and an adult - its doesn't matter what they are wearing.

How in the world could this be construed as a CAP activity? If I go out to Chilli's after a meeting with my squadron commander, is that a CAP activity? If I see him at the store, is that suddenly a CAP activity?

There have been several instances where a CAP member was injured while at a "Non" CAP affair which was called  by their Commander. When they get hurt at the activity, lawyers tend to say, The Captain or Commander asked them to do this so it is a CAP Activity. lawyers tend to file against the largest pocket.

Is there an example of this? Obviously lawyers can sue whomever they want, but were any of these lawsuits successful?

[Daniel]

So we should have left they 70-year old lady with a broken arm unload her heavy stuff?

In that pretense If 2 senior members get married and have a son/daughter as a cadet.. and (s)he gets hurt some how they can sue CAP?

[BrandonKea]

So we should have left they 70-year old lady with a broken arm unload her heavy stuff?

In that pretense If 2 senior members get married and have a son/daughter as a cadet.. and (s)he gets hurt some how they can sue CAP?

I would say that their marriage and that child's entire life is a CAP activity. :-D

[Daniel]

Maybe this is the teenage mentality kicking in

but it seems like the only way cap and cap-like organizations can stay perfectly legal is to sit around and twiddle our thumbs each week taking 20 minute stretching breaks so we don't get carpal tunnel.

and this wasn't even a cap activity

[BrandonKea]

Maybe this is the teenage mentality kicking in

but it seems like the only way cap and cap-like organizations can stay perfectly legal is to sit around and twiddle our thumbs each week taking 20 minute stretching breaks so we don't get carpal tunnel.

and this wasn't even a cap activity

I'm glad you get it :-)

[NC Hokie]

but it seems like the only way cap and cap-like organizations can stay perfectly legal is to sit around and twiddle our thumbs each week taking 20 minute stretching breaks so we don't get carpal tunnel.

Mmmmmm...wise is the young padawan to the ways of the lawyers.  Far will he go, yes!

[Daniel]

well sir,

we can't test anymore, paper cuts.

I'm done being a teen now, its time to act like an C/A1C again :-)

[jimmydeanno]

On the customs and courtesies thing...

Why would you change how you address people simply because you were out of the environment you normally are?  When you are at school, do you not call your teachers "Mr. Soandso?"  If you were out and about town and you ran into your teacher, would you call him "Jim" instead?

So take it to this activity.  Your Squadron Commander asks if you'd like to help.  You say, "Yes Sir, I would."  Is there any reason that you wouldn't continue to call him Sir regardless?  Did you call the nice old lady with the broken arm "Ma'am" at all, or did you call her Judy?

Just remember that Customs and Courtesies are signs of respect for individuals.  It is never inappropriate to show respect for people.  Why would anyone show different levels of that respect in different situations? 

As for saluting and such?  You weren't in uniform, so no, that would have been inappropriate, but titles of address are appropriate in all situations - regardless of whether or not it's a CAP activity.

I live in a small town, and have about 5 of our cadets that live locally (our unit is about 30 minutes away).  I run into them at around the school, Walmart, the movie store and even the barber shop a couple times.  Despite that, none of them EVER call me by my first name.  They'll either address me as Sir, as in "How are you doing, Sir?" or they'll actually call me "Major," "It's good to see you Major."

Now, on whether or not the nice thing you guys did for the woman, I wouldn't call it a CAP activity.  We make many friends and associations in our organization.  People belong to many organizations, etc.  Just because a couple of people from the local unit are together, doing the same thing, doesn't make it a CAP activity.

What if they are all members of the VFW AND CAP?  Does it make it a VFW event?  No.
What if a bunch of union construction workers go to the local bar for a few drinks?  Does it become a Union sponsored drinking event? No. 

But, even if this was a CAP event, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with it being so.  Our cadet oath states, "...and advance my education and training rapidly to be of service to my community..."  At some point, that education and training is going to be used outside of the CAP arena, so why not actually help the community by providing a much needed service to this woman?

There wasn't anyone forcing anyone to do it, it was a group of people epitomizing the CAP Core Value of Volunteer Service and Respect, being of service to their community.

There is no more risk involved in this activity than there is reorganizing the squadron building, running the encampment obstacle course, going to Hawk Mountain, etc.  I'm sure that even if it was an officially sanctioned CAP event that nobody would dispute the legitimacy of what they were doing.

[BrandonKea]

I live in a small town, and have about 5 of our cadets that live locally (our unit is about 30 minutes away).  I run into them at around the school, Walmart, the movie store and even the barber shop a couple times.  Despite that, none of them EVER call me by my first name.  They'll either address me as Sir, as in "How are you doing, Sir?" or they'll actually call me "Major," "It's good to see you Major."

Sorry to hijack, but you reminded me of something...

:-) I was at a theme park in Kansas City with a group of IACE cadets several years back. We were having a good ol' time, riding the rides and seeing the sights. We waited in line for awhile to get onto one of the better roller coasters, and as we were being strapped in, I thought I was hearing someone yelling my name. I looked around, but saw no one. We took our trip on the roller coaster, and as we came back to the loading/unloading zone, I heard it again... "Lieutenant Kea, LIEUTENANT KEA!!!" and there's this kid waving his hands around and jumping up and down. All these IACE cadets are looking at me like "Who is this guy?" (and to be honest, I had no clue just that moment)

We get off the roller coaster and I go over and go to talk to this kid, and he's like "Lieutenant Kea! Remember me from encampment?? I was in Echo Flight and then I was in that flight that you commanded for like a day! I just wanted to say hi and thank you, you taught me a lot and now I'm a C/TSgt." I smiled, first at the fact that I remembered him now, only a C/Amn at the time, and in my special one day only flight that was deemed to need more training in customs and courtesies. And second, I smiled because he remembered me, and picked me out of a crowd to tell me that I helped him. I congratulated him, and seeing my IACE cadets running off on me, told him I had to run.

And as I walked away, I turned and told him "Oh yeah, I got promoted too, I'm a Cadet Captain now!" He snapped to attention and said "Sorry sir!" I laughed and said "No worries, see ya later."

I have no idea what that Cadet went on to do, but I like to think that I at least helped him see that customs and courtesies are important, in or outside of CAP.

[Nathan]

For me personally, if I'm out of uniform, I don't expect saluting. If I'm at a meeting out of uniform, I still expect the rank because, well, I'm in a CAP setting. But if I'm at the mall, and happen to bump into some C/Amn from the squadron, I honestly have no problem if they refer to me by my last name only. If I hear it, it will let me know, "CAP", but to be referred to by rank is a little outlandish in an enviornment where my rank and authority in CAP has no meaning.

I am not particularly okay with being called by my first name out of uniform unless it is either another senior member or a cadet I worked closely with while I was a cadet.

Most cadets don't seem to be able to make the separation, and once they are allowed to call you by first name, they assume they are on "buddy terms", and next thing you know, you're getting facebook messages with Youtube videos involving dogs burping with the caption, "LOLRZ TIS IS FUNNY .

[Daniel]

I live in a small town, and have about 5 of our cadets that live locally (our unit is about 30 minutes away).  I run into them at around the school, Walmart, the movie store and even the barber shop a couple times.  Despite that, none of them EVER call me by my first name.  They'll either address me as Sir, as in "How are you doing, Sir?" or they'll actually call me "Major," "It's good to see you Major."

Sorry to hijack, but you reminded me of something...

:-) I was at a theme park in Kansas City with a group of IACE cadets several years back. We were having a good ol' time, riding the rides and seeing the sights. We waited in line for awhile to get onto one of the better roller coasters, and as we were being strapped in, I thought I was hearing someone yelling my name. I looked around, but saw no one. We took our trip on the roller coaster, and as we came back to the loading/unloading zone, I heard it again... "Lieutenant Kea, LIEUTENANT KEA!!!" and there's this kid waving his hands around and jumping up and down. All these IACE cadets are looking at me like "Who is this guy?" (and to be honest, I had no clue just that moment)

We get off the roller coaster and I go over and go to talk to this kid, and he's like "Lieutenant Kea! Remember me from encampment?? I was in Echo Flight and then I was in that flight that you commanded for like a day! I just wanted to say hi and thank you, you taught me a lot and now I'm a C/TSgt." I smiled, first at the fact that I remembered him now, only a C/Amn at the time, and in my special one day only flight that was deemed to need more training in customs and courtesies. And second, I smiled because he remembered me, and picked me out of a crowd to tell me that I helped him. I congratulated him, and seeing my IACE cadets running off on me, told him I had to run.

And as I walked away, I turned and told him "Oh yeah, I got promoted too, I'm a Cadet Captain now!" He snapped to attention and said "Sorry sir!" I laughed and said "No worries, see ya later."

I have no idea what that Cadet went on to do, but I like to think that I at least helped him see that customs and courtesies are important, in or outside of CAP.

OHHHHHH you went to WOF/OOF!

I went there this weekend

ontopic: So if most people in this thread are correct then I did really nothing wrong

[jimmydeanno]

...I did really nothing wrong.

"Squid,"

It sounds like you're a good cadet.  If you just maintain your positive attitude and continue with your desire to help people, you'll be just fine.  You did nothing wrong.  In fact, you did everything right.  More people would be served well by your example.

Keep up the good job and thanks for your commitment.

[Eclipse]

ontopic: So if most people in this thread are correct then I did really nothing wrong

Daniel, you did nothing wrong.  All you did was help an old lady at your Commander's request.

That doesn't necessarily mean the situation was right.  As Commanders it is our responsibility to
consider the consequences of days that don't go according to plan and protect all parties and the organization to the extent its possible.

[Eclipse]

What if they are all members of the VFW AND CAP?  Does it make it a VFW event?  No.
What if a bunch of union construction workers go to the local bar for a few drinks?  Does it become a Union sponsored drinking event? No. 

In neither case could you show that the only affiliation between the members was CAP, and in your examples, neither is a Commander/subordinate situation.

But, even if this was a CAP event, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with it being so. 

As I said, this would likely have been better done as an in-uniform CAP activity, since there would be no questions as to protocol or protection.  No reason it couldn't have been.

[jimmydeanno]

In neither case could you show that the only affiliation between the members was CAP, and in your examples, neither is a Commander/subordinate situation.

My only point with that was just because people belong to the same group doesn't mean if they are found together it becomes that groups activity.  Nor does it mean that if you draw on that pool of resources you have contact with, does it become a CAP actiivty.

I used to work for my squadron commander.  He offered me the job.  Does that mean he was offering me the job as my squadron commander or my future boss?  The latter.

My wife lives in the same house I do and I'm her [CAP] supervisor.  We both helped our neighbors with a yardsale.  Does that mean someone is going to kick us out of CAP for doing an "unapproved fundraising event?"

Would it be prudent for the commander to say, "Hey, this isn't a CAP event, but I know you might want to help?" Sure.  Necessary? No.   Because we all live in the real world where common sense usually comes through.

As for the uniform, we do PT in shorts and a T-Shirt, why can't we move boxes for an old lady with a broken arm in them too?

[Daniel]

At that rate,

its not like I hid what I was doing from my folks or anything.

My mum woke me up from a dead sleep to tell me my commander wants my help to move someone