Just a Suggestion ... to solicit some discussion

[thefischNX01]

I was at the Ft. Dix AAFES today, and lo and behold, they carry Navy Khaki uniforms.  Switching over to the Khaki then shouldn't be a big deal.  They even sell metal pin-on rank insignia there too.  Easy change?  I think so...

[Chaplaindon]

As to the suggestion that the new OSU (CAP "1505's") be stain resistant. I think that is an excellent point.

To that end, I am aware that several clothing manufacturers offer a Teflon stain resistant finish to the khaki pants and slacks (Levi's Dockers, for one).

Such a finish would be ideal for the OSU further reducing the burden to the wearer.

Good point.

Ch Don.

[arajca]

Having some down time...

here are some quick renderings of a khaki over blue CAP OSU:

I included a bloused version because we al know someone is going to do it if we use the bbdu pants.

Devices are:
grade insignia on collar
command pilot wings (example)
two line blue nameplate
That's it.

[Chaplaindon]

Nice renderings Andrew, thanks.

My observations are these:

1. That the blue trousers are going to be the same troublesome ones we have now (scuff and show dirt readily), are hot, and wrinkle too easily.
2. I think BDU pants wouldn't look good with this combo. That said, they might if they were a khaki BDU shirt to match fabric and style.
3. The dark trousers would be hotter (BDU or USAF dress) than a lighter color khaki.
4. I like the "minimalist" wearing of insignia as drawn.

Can you do similar renderings in all-khaki?

Thanks

Ch. Don

[MIKE]

I think it looks too Marineish.

[thefischNX01]

What if we used this shirt:

http://www.sullivanuniforms.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SU&Product_Code=SP66&Category_Code=Security+Uniforms

[arajca]

I want to clear a few things up:

What is the prupose of this uniform:
1. to provide a work uniform for mission base staff?

2. to provide a single unifying uniform for SM, regardless of h/w & g?

3. to replace all other CAP uniforms for SM's?

4. Other???

[arajca]

Nice renderings Andrew, thanks.

My observations are these:

1. That the blue trousers are going to be the same troublesome ones we have now (scuff and show dirt readily), are hot, and wrinkle too easily.

A navy blue work pant instead of dress pants takes care of this issue.

2. I think BDU pants wouldn't look good with this combo. That said, they might if they were a khaki BDU shirt to match fabric and style.

A two pocket bdu shirt in khaki would look good. Use sew-on insignia instead of pin on. (see below) Better idea for a work uniform. (You don't have to worry aout stuff getting caught of being pulled off.)

3. The dark trousers would be hotter (BDU or USAF dress) than a lighter color khaki.

Depends on where you are. If you're inside at a mission base, they're all about the same. If you're outside in the field, bdu's/bbdu's are worn.

4. I like the "minimalist" wearing of insignia as drawn.

I like it for work (bdu, bbdu, etc) uniforms. On service and dress uniforms, I prefer some blingage.

Can you do similar renderings in all-khaki?

A full khaki uniform reminds folks of the Navy, not the AF (history not withstanding).

I think it looks too Marineish.

It still looks good. When most people think of Marine uniforms they picture 1. the black dress uniform w/choker collar, 2. MARPAT camo, or 3. the green 'Class A' with khaki shirt. Very few folks associate this setup with the Marines.

If something like this were to come around, would the other corporate uniforms go away? How about the field uniform? Does this open the door for the CA GSAR uniform to be nationally accepted?

IMO, khaki over blue is more visually appealing than straight khaki.

[thefischNX01]

I would stick with the woodland cammo personally, and go with bloused boots but overall very nice :clap:

I almost wish I had bought the Navy Khaki Shirt today so i could take a few pictures

And to answer your question arajca, I would like the uniform proposed to take the slot of both the Air Force Blues and the corporate uniform equivalents.  Besides, i think this is a lot better than what the NEC came up with...

[MIKE]

I think it looks too Marineish.

It still looks good. When most people think of Marine uniforms they picture 1. the black dress uniform w/choker collar, 2. MARPAT camo, or 3. the green 'Class A' with khaki shirt. Very few folks associate this setup with the Marines.

I'm not most people... Sorry. 

[arajca]

I would stick with the woodland cammo personally, and go with bloused boots but overall very nice :clap:

I almost wish I had bought the Navy Khaki Shirt today so i could take a few pictures

And to answer your question arajca, I would like the uniform proposed to take the slot of both the Air Force Blues and the corporate uniform equivalents.  Besides, i think this is a lot better than what the NEC came up with...

What about a dress uniform? The current CAP/Naval attache uniform?

Following a common color scheme for uniforms for SM's:
Service uniforms:
Khaki shirt, blue dress pants, AF style epaulet grade insignia, blue two line nameplate, max of two badges above left pocket or one above and one on the pocket*, no ribbons, Command Badge above name plate (for sitting unit/group commanders only), blue flight cap w/grade, khaki tie for long sleeve shirt ONLY
Work:
khaki two pocket bdu blouse (long or short sleeve) w/ name and CAP tapes, embriodered grade insignia, max of two embriodered badges above CAP tape, and CAP emblem on left shoulder. Blue bdu trousers, bloused w/combat boots (or navy blue work pants, unbloused w/black plain toe shoes).
sage green/navy blue flight suit (we ain't gonna get the zipper-suited sky gods out of them) only for flying activities
Dress:
CAP Service Dress (double breasted w/bling) or khaki service dress (4 pocket, w/bling)
CAP formal dress (black tux w/bling)

* the specialty track badge one the pocket shall be for the position you are currently filling, i.e. Admin Off wears Admin, CDC wears CP, etc. Not Admin wears Master Ops because it's his highest rating (unless he's also Ops Off)

[Chaplaindon]

Although being from the "Tropics," I like the idea of a twill or gabardine khaki Class-A "overblouse," I would be happy to stick with the exisiting (well, new) NEC-approved service dress (class-A) or USAF class-A (in blue) as long as we had a functional "working" uniform that wasn't BDU/BBDU. Excellent renderings anyway Andrew. Thanks.

Ch. Don

[BillB]

I haven't seen a khaki shirt and blue pants combination since ohh  about 3 hours ago. I was at a supermarket and a marine recruiter was just leaving wearing khaki shirt and blue pants.
The Khaki shirt and pants combination has been around since the 1930's for the Army, and Air Corps. It's a uniform people are familiar with. Since it would be a corporate uniform, it might be the ideal work uniform for seniors as well as cadets. The shirt and pants can be bought for less that a new BDU shirt, so cost shouldn't be a factor.

[ZigZag911]

I think it looks too Marines.

I agree, it looks very much like one of the  Marine uniforms (not sure what their term for this combination is, back in the Dark Ages WIWAC we would have described it as Class B. which I understand is no longer proper nomenclature!)

[arajca]

What if we used this shirt:

http://www.sullivanuniforms.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SU&Product_Code=SP66&Category_Code=Security+Uniforms

The problem with that shirt is it has two reinforced holes above the left breast pocket (badge tab). Otherwise, it would work.

[MIKE]

I think it looks too Marines.

I agree, it looks very much like one of the  Marine uniforms (not sure what their term for this combination is, back in the Dark Ages WIWAC we would have described it as Class B. which I understand is no longer proper nomenclature!)

Blue Dress "C" or Blue Dress "D" depending on long or short sleeve khaki shirt respectively.

[Zonekeeper]

I like the ideas, but national has just got done making us a new uniform and I doubt they'll add yet another. (then again... this IS national, and we might be able to convince them while they're on this little uniform binge of theirs) anyway, I say we start small, like authorizing the two-pocket bdu shirt for the blue BDUs to be tucked in. It'll look presentable while allowing us to not make any major changes to 39-1. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a khaki uniform, but I think we're approaching this the wrong way. Perhaps we can get them to make a tan BDU combo that can coexist with the blue BDU, and use the same insignia placement. With the two pocket shirt, it won't look too different from some of the combos already proposed, and it would be a godsend to those of us in warmer climates. The colorful insignia we wear would also look much better on the tan, in my opinion. If we wanted one that would match the current uniforms a bit better, replace tan with grey. We already have a blue and grey version of the same uniform (aviator combo and new corporates), so why not do it with the field uniform? We could be uniform in the sense that we have a running color theme in our corporate uniforms (blue and grey) Sorry if I'm rambling, but I just had a few ideas to get of my chest. In summary: allow tuck-in 2-pocket shirt for BBDUs, add tan/grey version of BBDUs for oldschool look/comfort in hot weather environments.

[Al Sayre]

If national really wanted to provide us with a good "corporate work uniform", they could best serve the membership by picking clothing that can be purchased at the local Kmart or Walmart, such as the "Dickies" brand work shirts and pants(I'll let others argue the color part), and adding our name tapes and other patches etc. to make them stand out.  I know the Coast Guard was doing this for their dark blue work uniforms when I was in the Navy in the 80's (today?). 

That way a member doesn't have to find USAF hand-me-downs or drive a couple hundred miles to the nearest base, or wait for Hock Shop or Vanguard to get an order put together and shipped. 

Really, why do we need BDU's (pick a color/pattern) at all? We aren't supposed to load up all those extra pockets anyway, so why have 'em?

The dark blue work uniforms would look reasonably good with the Ultramarine tapes and either metal or cloth grade insigna would also look fine.  They are cheap, easily obtained, stain and spill resistant, some are even fireproofed(resistant), can be ironed, tucked in, bloused or not. etc.  They also come in Khaki, so you make the call...   

[shorning]

If national really wanted to provide us with a good "corporate work uniform", they could best serve the membership by picking clothing that can be purchased at the local Kmart or Walmart, such as the "Dickies" brand work shirts and pants(I'll let others argue the color part), and adding our name tapes and other patches etc. to make them stand out.  I know the Coast Guard was doing this for their dark blue work uniforms when I was in the Navy in the 80's (today?). 

Actually, that's not a bad idea.  When possible, COTS is definately the way to go.  I don't think it would ever fly, but not a bad idea.

[afgeo4]

Ok, someone please explain to me how the khaki utility uniform would serve SAR teams better than the navy blue current distinctive utility or the bdu?

I think it'd be more relevant to stick with the dark blue version and come 2011 (the mandatory wear date for USAF ABU's), eliminate the BDU by attrition of course.  A 2 pocket version would keep it more in line with the ABU, but in the end, who cares???

The khaki dress combination is an amazing idea though and it is very functional, historical and sharp looking.  I prefer it with the blue pants myself.  I think it just looks better with the belt and the flight cap.  I think the epaulettes should stay just like in the army/air force.  We should stay away from USN/USMC type of insignia.  Epaulettes don't require much maintenance and aren't going to get in the way of ICs' work.  Maybe we could use the current white shirt combo USAF epaulettes for that?  The current USAF flight caps should stay as well, but with pin-on grade insignia on the left side.  In terms of ribbons...   Let's pretend we're all adults here and not regulate when one should wear them.   If you think your ribbons will get dirty while you're doing SAR work, leave 'em at home.  If you don't and you're proud of what you've done, put 'em on.  Heck, there's nothing unprofessional about wearing them.  And I honestly don't know whether the wear of military ribbons should or should not be authorized for this.   I am former USAF enlisted and even I find myself not wearing AF ribbons on my CAP blues (too many ribbons to wear and replace when frayed.)

Can we make a proposal and send it to NHQ for them to bring up at the next Uniform Board?   How could it hurt?