Radios

[maverik]

I have heard people don't like the EFJ 5100s so I was wondering what radios other CAP members like and use.Also what do you think all CULs,comm guys etc. should have?

[Eclipse]

I own a VX-150 and an EFJ handheld, the VX-150 is significantly smaller and lighter, though IMO the performance of the EFJ is better.

However, I love both my EFJ handhelds and mobiles, why?  Because the good-old USAF "gave" them to me and they do what I need.

Beyond big-button devices that make my messages come out far away from where I am standing, I could care less who makes the radios or what other features they might have.

I'm sure the HAM guys will have a real opinion, though generally executing against that opinion has a real cost to it (i.e. you have to buy your own).

[♠SARKID♠]

EFJ 5100 = Brick with antenna.  Its heavier than one would want it to be and its way too big and bulky.  I also don't like channel selection system where if say you're on Bank 1, Channel 8 and you switch to Bank 3 where Channel 8 is unprogrammed you get that heinously annoying "UNPROGRAMMED" tone.  This is a problem with most radios with a numbered channel selection knob.  This may seem minor but its a big thing to me.  Those are my complaints against it, haven't had too much experience with it because I avoid it like the plague and use my own radios.

I personally use a Kenwood Tk-280.  Its small, light, and has a continuous channel selection so you never get a tone when switching banks.  Once I get my replacement battery I'll also be using the Tk-380 because of ability to attach the antenna to the hand mic.

[CAP.is.1337]

For CAP, I've had HT1000, MT2000, XTS3000, not to mention the Astro Saber on its way here. Of all the radios I've tried, my favorite is the MT2000. Even though the XTS3000 has preformed slightly better, (probably due to a good antenna that actually covers the CAP freqs,) I find the ergonomics of the Jedi line better than most other radios.

However, I've really enjoyed using my old-school Saber on the ham bands, and I'm hopeful that NTIA-legal Astro Saber will eclipse the MT2k as my go-to HT.

Even with all that said, if we're talking $$$ you'll get the best bang/buck with an HT1000.

[maverik]

^^I know haha but I don't understand how it's comliant when you can't change zones which would seem to me like a problem! As for gear I'll probably carry some extra attennas and a travel charger,and regular charger, with extra batteries because my unit doesn't understand the concept of taking the batteries out when not in use. *after an op "But SARADDICT why would we store them without batteries? They might get lost!" at the next SAREX "  SARADDICT MY ICOMs BATTERY DIED! "

[Slim]

Even though the XTS3000 has preformed slightly better, (probably due to a good antenna that actually covers the CAP freqs,) I find the ergonomics of the Jedi line better than most other radios.

Simple solution is to take the wideband (136-174MHz) antenna off the XTS-3000 and put it on the MT-2000.  They both use the same SMA antenna connector.

BTW, so does the Astro Saber.

[maverik]

So what radio besides the johnsons have more than 1 zone(s)? I believe the Astro Saber does is this true?

[CAP.is.1337]

So what radio besides the johnsons have more than 1 zone(s)? I believe the Astro Saber does is this true?

M1 Astro Sabers and XTS3000's are also 48-mode units. M2/3's have 255-modes.

Basically, the only Post-1/06 NTIA compliant Motorola radios that are limited to only 16 channels are the HT1000, JT1000, and Visar. The Visar is just a HT1000 folded in half, and the JT1000 is pretty much an HT1000 that can be programmed without software.

[maverik]

48 modes meaning 48 channels,but no zone changing capabillity? I swear I can't find anything that will allow me to change zones. Zone changing is a must since IN wing operates on alot of different zones so i guess I may have to purchase an EFJ 5100 and get a HT for fun so anyone know where I can get a EFJ?

[CAP.is.1337]

48 modes meaning 48 channels,but no zone changing capabillity? I swear I can't find anything that will allow me to change zones. Zone changing is a must since IN wing operates on alot of different zones so i guess I may have to purchase an EFJ 5100 and get a HT for fun so anyone know where I can get a EFJ?

The ABC switch on M1 Jedi's and Astro's is how zones are changed. That gives you 48 channels in three zones of 16 channels each. Limited or Full keypad radios have more customizable switches and menus, but generally change zones via the menu.

You only need 8 9 channels to talk to anyone on CAP VHF. I think it will increase to around 12 when we go narrowband for good. The reason for INWG's additional channels is because of the individual repeater access tones. With a handheld, you're allowed to use the universal access tone for repeater access. Our wing has several JT1000 radios, and they work just fine with our EFJ5100's, and even have some room for inter-op channels. Unless you're playing with P25, the HT1000 is really all the radio you'll ever need.

If you're deadset on buying a more advanced radio, look into the Astro Saber or XTS3000. You can find really good deals on surplus radios if you look around. Also, HK parts-build P25 M1's are around $250 on eBay, though you'll have to find someone local to program it and if something breaks, you might as well just buy a new one rather than pay the Depot to fix it.
See here for an example.

[maverik]

okay and so with an HT1000 I would be set. One more question are FRSs (aka walkie talkies) all on the same freq?

[Hawk200]

okay and so with an HT1000 I would be set. One more question are FRSs (aka walkie talkies) all on the same freq?

On the same frequency set, yes. There are 8 freq's in the set. They're not something that we should really be using in the course of our business.

[maverik]

trust me I wasn't planning on it just wanted to know lol.

[Slim]

With a handheld, you're allowed to use the universal access tone for repeater access.

I may be mistaken, but I was told that the new channel/repeater plan does not include a universal access tone.  IOW, if true, you'd need a separate mode/channel for each repeater regardless of what type of equipment you're using.

Honestly, unless you're going to buy an Astro Saber or an XTS, I'd hold off until these details are settled. 

[SarDragon]

I'll also mention that in certain areas, the universal tone is shut off on the repeaters to prevent international interference.

[arajca]

From the information I have, the Common Access Tone was retained, but was changed to a different tone. This was over the protests of some DC's who felt it was kow-towing to 'lesser' radios and lazy members.

As mentioned, in some areas, the CAT was removed for the mentioned reason.

Personally, I like the CAT idea. I can take some of the wings older, but still compliant, 16 channel radios, program in the simplex and CAT and establish a cache without depriving any units of their equipment.

[CAP.is.1337]

From the information I have, the Common Access Tone was retained, but was changed to a different tone. This was over the protests of some DC's who felt it was kow-towing to 'lesser' radios and lazy members.

As mentioned, in some areas, the CAT was removed for the mentioned reason.

Personally, I like the CAT idea. I can take some of the wings older, but still compliant, 16 channel radios, program in the simplex and CAT and establish a cache without depriving any units of their equipment.

Well, thats good to know. I'm still waiting to hear back from the DC about getting my radios programmed.

[maverik]

Isn't there a specific flash code for the radios if so what's the code for the Atro Saber?

[CAP.is.1337]

Isn't there a specific flash code for the radios if so what's the code for the Atro Saber?

Yes, Astro and some Jedi radios (MTS/MTX) have flashcodes. It basically allows for customers to customize their radio with different options. For example, my XTS3000 flashcode is 100001-00000-7, which means the radio is programmed for Q806/G806 IMBE / APCO-25 Digital Operation and H35/G48 Conventional Operation. (You can decode them using a tool like this one.)

Upgrades can be purchased from /\/\, but they're expensive and you can only buy them if you're the original owner. For the XTS3000 and Astro Saber, they can be hacked, but you have to know what you're doing and its very easy to brick the radio.

[maverik]

Okay so they don't have to have a specific code to be used with CAP thoug right?

[CAP.is.1337]

Okay so they don't have to have a specific code to be used with CAP thoug right?

Only if you want to use P25. If so, the first digit in the flashcode needs to  to be either a 1 or 5. All other stuff is ancillary with Astro radios. We don't use trunking or StatAlert, as far as I know. Now, the XTS-5000 and XTS-2500 can have options that will allow the to be programmed without /\/\'s expensive software. While that doesn't matter much for CAP, if you decide to get into ham radio, then you'll really appreciate being able to change your programming on the fly.

[maverik]

hah yeah I'll actually have technician rating by the end of the summer. BTW is this a code that means I can use P-25? 010001-000000-8

[CAP.is.1337]

hah yeah I'll actually have technician rating by the end of the summer. BTW is this a code that means I can use P-25? 010001-000000-8

No. When you run that code through a decoder it comes out to only:
* H101,G101,H169 Conventional Repeater Access (Analog Operation Only)(MDC1200 or Singletone)
* H35/G48 Conventional Operation
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/flash/
It should work fine for our analog feqs, though. A little cheat you can use to recognize P25 capability is that if it is, the flashcode will begin with a 1 or 5.

ETA: Oh, I see you're talking about the one listed on ebay. Even though the listed bandwith is 146-178 MHz, you should be able to program in our lower freqs without issue. The real problem with those radios is that they have a 512k Vocon and its VSLEP rather than IMBE. Basically what that means is that its a very old Astro Saber, the audio quality is much worse than a newer radio, and it will never work with P25.

Would it be ok to use as a conventional radio only? Probably. Would I save my money until I found a nicer radio that has P25. Yes.

I highly recommend you read the Guide to ASTRO Digital Radios if you're thinking about getting seriously into Motorola ASTRO portables.
http://www.akardam.net/moto/docs/mirrored/Guide_to_ASTRO_Digital_Radios_R03.00.01.pdf

And congrats on getting into Ham radio!