California CAP Members Can No Longer Marshal Non-CAP Planes

[EMT-83]

I have very little experience being marshaled as a pilot.  Who is ultimately responsible if you smack your wing tip while someone is marshaling you?  PIC or Marshaler?

This happened to a friend of mine in his Seneca. The FBO marshal directed him into a traffic cone, which his prop delivered to the tail of a Lear parked nearby. Repairs to both aircraft were over $100K. In the end, the FBO was found to be at fault.

[JayT]

Perhaps it's for another thread, but I find it saddening that an organization that was founded on member provided assets, some of them even strapping on bombs and going after targets - that we have turned into an organization run by lawyers and fear.  Try using a member owned aircraft now. It's like it's the plague, and try getting into another units aircraft, it's like you are penetrating the clique most of the time.

You know, we all grumble about that, but when it comes down to it, how are you going to explain to twelve year old Cadet Tommy's mother that we're still picking up with with a sponge and plastic bag.

Is it a stupid rule? Partially. Put an age limit on it.

Should member owned assist be used more? Definately.

[PHall]

Thats what I thought also.  Kind of an interesting situation to be placed into as PIC.

If you don't think the marshaller is directing you safely, then STOP THE AIRCRAFT!

Wave them over and talk about it.

[Always Ready]

Is it a stupid rule? Partially. Put an age limit on it.

I think you are right. After reading up on some stuff and remembering some personal experiences dealing with cadets, I've changed my stance on the age limit. NBB says has a 16 years and older limit and I think that would be a good number to start with.

I think (as always) that the FLS (and someone of importance in the cadet's squadron should be saying 'yay' or 'nay' to their maturity level waaaay before they even touch the flight line) should make the determination factor about letting cadets (and SMs for that matter) marshal aircraft based on situation (# of planes, weather, ramp space, # of GA aircraft in vicinity, etc.) and the cadet (or SM)'s maturity level.

I've worked with some 13 year old cadets who could marshal aircraft like no other. They were mature and knew how dangerous the situation was. However, I have had to deal with cadets 12-15 y.o., a certain C/Capt (16-17 y.o. IIRC), and a 40-something Major (who somehow was signed off on FLM & FLS) who just weren't ready for that kind of responsibility.

[Always Ready]

Thats what I thought also.  Kind of an interesting situation to be placed into as PIC.

If you don't think the marshaller is directing you safely, then STOP THE AIRCRAFT!

Wave them over and talk about it.

After you kill the engine of course Otherwise you will be in more trouble than if you hit another aircraft

Or you can wave at the marshaller to get them to move out of the way. Either way, if it isn't safe DON'T DO IT!

[LtCol057]

I know here in NC wing, an order was passed down by the former wing cc that anyone that violated directions given by a qualified FLM or FLS was grounded until they had a one-on-one with the wing cc.

The current wing cc is a big supporter of the FLM/FLS specialties. He even teaches them. 

But, IMO, the responsibility still lies on the pilot to pay attention. Not getting things ready to get out of the plane while it's still moving.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Flying Pig]

Thats what I thought also.  Kind of an interesting situation to be placed into as PIC.

If you don't think the marshaller is directing you safely, then STOP THE AIRCRAFT!

Wave them over and talk about it.

Well, yeah.  No kidding.  But accidents done usually happen when you see them coming.  It a lagit question.  If I am taxiing, being marshaled, and my wing tip hits another aircraft because the marshaller told me I was OK, do I need to whip out my checkbook?  Or does the 13 yr old cadet need to call his parents to bring theirs?

[PHall]

Thats what I thought also.  Kind of an interesting situation to be placed into as PIC.

If you don't think the marshaller is directing you safely, then STOP THE AIRCRAFT!

Wave them over and talk about it.

Well, yeah.  No kidding.  But accidents done usually happen when you see them coming.  It a lagit question.  If I am taxiing, being marshaled, and my wing tip hits another aircraft because the marshaller told me I was OK, do I need to whip out my checkbook?  Or does the 13 yr old cadet need to call his parents to bring theirs?

Just because you're being marshalled does not relieve the PIC from making sure they have adequate clearance.

Even in the military, who use marshallers on every flight, if a marshaller screws up and directs your wingtip into a fixed object, both the marshaller and the pilot at the controls are going to get nailed.

Because as the pilot at the controls you never give up responsibility for the aircraft.
You may accept guidance from a marshaller, but it's still the pilot at the controls who controls what the aircraft is doing.