Certificate of Proficiency Senior Ribbon?

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Maybe it's time to revamp things a little.

The Membership Award is a serious gimme. You can almost get it just for showing up. Why not scrap it? The butterbars, or any grade at all, seem to recognize completion of Level I. You have to have CPPT, OPSEC, EEO and the Orientation Course, basically, to even be a member.

With a formalized course, the ribbon would have more meaning. And most of our new members are woefully unprepared for what they end up having to do. A lot of people have joined, been handed a pamphlet on a specialty track, and were told, "Congratulations! You're the new ES/PA/CP/Admin/Operations/etc./etc/etc. Officer". Is there anyplace else that does this? Never been like that at any job I've ever worked.

The stuff you mentioned should be part of a formalized setting, and shown some attention. Maybe a rundown on the various tracks available, additional requirements pertaining to some tracks, some history on CAP, what's going to be expected. Should be enough to give some meaning to that one ribbon. (If everyone is stuck on keeping it. I'd give it up.)

Agreed. I think there should be much more to getting butterbars than just showing up and doing a bare minimum, save for showing up for six months. Military officers get a lot more training and know how to be an officer before they become one.

The rest of your post, I tend to agree with.

[RogueLeader]

Why even have a "technical training" ribbon at all? You get a badge for each rating in a track. It's a double dip that's pretty obvious. Ditch the ribbon, it doesn't really show anything. Each badge gets a star, then a wreath. A ribbon is pointless, except for fruit salad hounds. (I'd have no heartburn giving that up either.)

1)  Ribbon is cheaper than badges
2)  Some of thebadges look pretty bad
3)  Ribbon looks good
4)  Can show more advancements- up to three on a ribbon and only two badges
5)  A ribbon takes up less space, leaving it with less clutter.

[Hawk200]

1)  Ribbon is cheaper than badges

Maybe so, but the badge will last longer, and you can tell the specialty track. Ribbon tells you what? "I got one (or two or three)".

2)  Some of thebadges look pretty bad

Matter of opinion. Some think so, others don't. I will admit that, initially, I was confused as to which were what, but never thought them ugly. Eye of the beholder.

3)  Ribbon looks good
4)  Can show more advancements- up to three on a ribbon and only two badges

But it doesn't tell you anything useful. A ribbon with three stars tells you a person has ratings in three specialty tracks. Which ones?  One look at a badge and you can tell the person has a Senior Cadet Programs rating, or a Master in Personnnel, or a Basic in Safety.  A ribbon won't. If you really want the ribbon rack to grow like weeds, make a ribbon for each track, at least you could tell which tracks the person has. (Just joking there, folks, I would not legitimately advocate this.)

5)  A ribbon takes up less space, leaving it with less clutter.

Less clutter how? There's a freaking ribbon for just about everything as it is. People will end up with a dozen easily. The sad thing is how many people ask what they all are. Badges are pretty distinct, they tell exactly what the person is capable of doing. Ribbons don't, never will.

[Chaplain Sam]

The original question had to do with the Certificate of Proficiency (COP) Ribbon that Vanguard sells (CAP0734).

This was a cadet training ribbon awarded between Dec 1954 to Mar 1964.  It was the top cadet training award of its day, equivalent of today's Mitchell Award.  Earning it would get you your first stripe if you joined the Air Force.  There were only about 600 ever awarded.  I was awarded mine in October 1963 and it was signed by General Curtis Lemay.  There were three achievements that you could earn after the COP but you didn't get any extra ribbons, you just added clasps to the COP ribbon.  Also in those days, rank was not automatic with the achievements.  A cadet could have the COP with all three clasps and still not be an officer.  Each squadron was authorized only so many officers and NCOs and you had to wait for a vacancy to open up to be promoted and the top rank for a cadet commander in a large squadron was major.

It is now considered a legacy ribbon worn by "vintage" senior members.

[tjaxe]

The original question had to do with the Certificate of Proficiency (COP) Ribbon that Vanguard sells (CAP0734).

This was a cadet training ribbon awarded between Dec 1954 to Mar 1964.  It was the top cadet training award of its day, equivalent of today's Mitchell Award.  Earning it would get you your first stripe if you joined the Air Force.  There were only about 600 ever awarded.  I was awarded mine in October 1963 and it was signed by General Curtis Lemay.  There were three achievements that you could earn after the COP but you didn't get any extra ribbons, you just added clasps to the COP ribbon.  Also in those days, rank was not automatic with the achievements.  A cadet could have the COP with all three clasps and still not be an officer.  Each squadron was authorized only so many officers and NCOs and you had to wait for a vacancy to open up to be promoted and the top rank for a cadet commander in a large squadron was major.

It is now considered a legacy ribbon worn by "vintage" senior members.

I wonder how many seniors are wearing this award when they shouldn't be.  I don't think it's very difficult to get confused since there is currently a Certificate of Proficiency and the ribbon is listed in the senior awards.  Maybe Vanguard should add a comment to the product.  Or maybe it's just confusing to me. 

[SarDragon]

Wouldn't it qualify as "highest cadet award earned"? I would certainly accept its wear on that basis.

YMMV.

[Hawk200]

Wouldn't it qualify as "highest cadet award earned"? I would certainly accept its wear on that basis.

YMMV.

I think TJ is pointing out that seniors receive a "Certificate of Proficiency" (completion of Level II, now called the Benjamin O Davis award), and since there is a "Certificate of Proficiency" ribbon on Vanguard's website, there might be seniors that erroneously think that the COP ribbon is the award for Level II instead of the Leadership ribbon. I believe the assumption is implied that said seniors were never cadets.

With some seniors, I could see it happening.

[tjaxe]

Wouldn't it qualify as "highest cadet award earned"? I would certainly accept its wear on that basis.

YMMV.

I think TJ is pointing out that seniors receive a "Certificate of Proficiency" (completion of Level II, now called the Benjamin O Davis award), and since there is a "Certificate of Proficiency" ribbon on Vanguard's website, there might be seniors that erroneously think that the COP ribbon is the award for Level II instead of the Leadership ribbon. I believe the assumption is implied that said seniors were never cadets.

With some seniors, I could see it happening.

Bingo.

[arajca]

Wouldn't it qualify as "highest cadet award earned"? I would certainly accept its wear on that basis.

YMMV.

I think TJ is pointing out that seniors receive a "Certificate of Proficiency" (completion of Level II, now called the Benjamin O Davis award), and since there is a "Certificate of Proficiency" ribbon on Vanguard's website, there might be seniors that erroneously think that the COP ribbon is the award for Level II instead of the Leadership ribbon. I believe the assumption is implied that said seniors were never cadets.

With some seniors, I could see it happening.

The only recognition for completing Level II is a piece of paper. The Leadership Ribbon is awarded for acheiving a Technician rating in a specialty track.

[Hawk200]

Wouldn't it qualify as "highest cadet award earned"? I would certainly accept its wear on that basis.

YMMV.

I think TJ is pointing out that seniors receive a "Certificate of Proficiency" (completion of Level II, now called the Benjamin O Davis award), and since there is a "Certificate of Proficiency" ribbon on Vanguard's website, there might be seniors that erroneously think that the COP ribbon is the award for Level II instead of the Leadership ribbon. I believe the assumption is implied that said seniors were never cadets.

With some seniors, I could see it happening.

The only recognition for completing Level II is a piece of paper. The Leadership Ribbon is awarded for acheiving a Technician rating in a specialty track.

Point taken. There are people that will think that the COP ribbon is what they can wear if they get the COP. I've seen far worse doozies.

[RogueLeader]

With some seniors, I could see it happening.

Some who even know better can fall for it.  I did, then realized that it was: Oh, my bad.

Anybody want a couple of new COP ribbons