Sheriff Dept Sponsored CAP Squadron

[Earhart1971]

24 Million is the operating budget for National Headquarters, you would be surprised how much money you can go through when you are paying about 100 to 125 people salaries.

Don't forget that this is money that AF has budgeted for us out of their funds.  We do have monies coming in from our individual contributions (dues) plus contributions from business and industry.  On the state level governments may contribute some out of state budgets to wings.  Again this is the principle advantage to also being non-profit corporation.

4 mil is still a huge hit when you look at it, just means a little more belt tightening.  Perhaps in the non-essential stuff and not in what matters.  You fill in the blank here.

Major Chuck,

I thought I might run this by you and others on this forum.

What if there was a local Sheriff Race, and one of the Candidates was an Ex CAP Cadet?  No its not me, its one of my Fellow Cadets from the 70s.

This Sheriff Candidate wants to IF ELECTED, set up a SHERIFF DEPT sponsored Squadron.

Allow CAP Personnel to fly the Sheriff Fixed Wing Aircraft (for Searches and other appropriate CAP Missions).  Also, operate with CAP Ground Teams and Sheriff Helicopters on regular exercises, and on real ground searches, searches for lost kids, and missing persons.

I am not talking about turning off ELTs in Hangars and that kind of stuff, I'm talking about searches from the old days, the kind of stuff we as cadets were called out of school for.

The Sheriff would have a budget for CAP Operations, plus apply for Grants for the Squadron.

Have Cadets co enrolled in the Sheriff Explorer and CAP Cadet Program.

Have Sheriff Deputies co enrolled as Senior Members.

In other words create a Sponsorship and relationship where the Sheriff Dept has a Trained internal Volunteer Force of CAP members who can do Searches, and do joint training, deploy for disaster relief, and most important, have money and resources coming out of the Sheriff Budget, plus vehicles and everything needed to perform any mission required.

Lets face it, most CAP members want to spend ZERO TIME raising funds to operate a Squadron.

CAP volunteers will gravitate to a Squadron WITH ASSETS, great support, and a Mission.

We could probably have a budget at squadron level of $20,000 to 50,000 per year, PLus vehicles, aircraft, and other assets that CAP Members can use and not have to pay maintenance on.

I can see a Squadron of 300 Members, with the kind of money and assets this Sheriff Dept has and can afford.

I think it would be the perfect marriage of an excellent Program (CAP) to available money and resources.

My question to all of you, would the general national membership of CAP support such a Candidate with private donations?

The reason I ask, if this works at one Sheriff Dept in the Country it will work in them all, it just takes one Sheriff to do it Successfully then others will follow.

It makes sense on every level, including our new role in Homeland Security.

Comments? By the way if you are really excited, email me: richmond45@yahoo.com

[thefischNX01]

 :clap: :clap:

The only thing I don't like is "Have Sherrif Deputies co-enrolled as Senior Members".  Unless I'm wrong, that's against CAP regs.  CAP Members cannot be deputized

[pixelwonk]

:clap: :clap:

The only thing I don't like is "Have Sherrif Deputies co-enrolled as Senior Members".  Unless I'm wrong, that's against CAP regs.  CAP Members cannot be deputized

You are right that CAP members cannot be deputized while acting in a CAP role, because CAP prohibits direct law enforcement.  it does not, however, bar LEOs from becoming CAP members.  There are several law enforcement officers as CAP members, up to and including MG Pineda, National Commander.

[Becks]

Correct, LEO can join, but they have to decide what they want to be in the event of an emergency; a CAP member or a police officer, you cannot act as both.

[Earhart1971]

I was commander of a squadron with 3 Sheriff Deputies in my Squadron, there was never a problem.

But if I needed a Deputy, on a team, he would be in Sheriff fatigues and not CAP.

And in CAP uniform, they are just another CAP member.



But, what about the rest of the idea?

[groundpounder]

The idea has merit but......

You will have to be vary careful how you sell this. If anyone thinks that the cops will be running the CAP show, I can see a lot of folks getting their shorts all in a bunch.

The CAP folks flying the cops plane could be an insurance snafu and could kill the deal completely.

I would start off with the concept of the cops funding the squadron with their budget $ and buying the assets that you spoke of. The question of who owns them would have to be worked out.

Then I would enroll the members as CAP members with no mention of a cross between the two. If you go too far then the PC act starts to get blurred and it all goes to heck pretty quickly.

It has to be sold as a way for CAP to help the cops with SAR / DR, not with any cop work.

Great idea, just needs a marketing plan.

Good luck.

[Nick]

Go with the idea... if it's training and education, do it under the auspices of CAP.  If it's sheriff's department-operational, do it under the auspices of the police explorer program.  If it's AF/state-assigned-operational, you're back to CAP.  Dual-chartered CAP squadron/explorer posts deal with this two-hat thing all the time.

[Eclipse]

Things to consider.

Dual-chartered units require that CAP be the sponsor / controller of the unit, not the other way around.

No matter who sponsors what, where or how much money there is, etc., this will not change CAP's authorized missions, Posse-COm status, or liability coverage issues when operating under a CAP flag.

At a minimum I would directly involve your state's CAP-USAF Director as well as others in the chain. 

This sounds like one of those ideas that ends in "Seemed like a good idea at the time."

[flyguy06]

AGain, Everyone here is assuming that ES is the primary mission for CAP. Its not so Having a relationship with the Sheriff Dept would not help my unit with its Flying mission

[Eclipse]

Well,  on paper, its 1/3rd of the mission, and in practice its 1/2 (with most Senior Aerospace educaion being lipservice, and cadet AE wrapped into the CP).

So I would be curious what your "flying mission" is that does not include ES.

[Earhart1971]

The idea has merit but......

You will have to be vary careful how you sell this. If anyone thinks that the cops will be running the CAP show, I can see a lot of folks getting their shorts all in a bunch.

Actually, its more like former CAP Cadets running the Sheriff Show, LOL!

CAP has untapped power and resources, and influence, that can be brought to the table.

[Earhart1971]

AGain, Everyone here is assuming that ES is the primary mission for CAP. Its not so Having a relationship with the Sheriff Dept would not help my unit with its Flying mission

It would be a Composite Squadron with full Mission on the scale of a small military academy.

1. Cadet Program and Seniors (most my Seniors will be former Cadets)

2. Emergency Services - and how many times do you see the police or a sheriff calling for volunteers, - out of the blue, untrained people to go out in the woods and search for somebody?

3 Aerospace Education


4. Leadership Training - and I think for Cadets and Seniors  CAP has the best leadership Courses, Staff College and all are the best Corp Leadership Training around.

But the important thing that is missing from most squadrons, Facilities, equipment (usually expensive to maintain), Computers, Money, and space for Classrooms, all are there for CAP use.

And a Sheriff that can point to this Organization and say, this is what I have done - at a National Conference of other Sheriffs - if it works others will follow.

[Eclipse]

2. Emergency Services - and how many times do you see the police or a sheriff calling for volunteers, - out of the blue, untrained people to go out in the woods and search for somebody?

Unless they call the NOC first, and get approval, those shiny new cadets will still be on the sidelines.  And the duty still has to fall within CAP's regulations.

CAP cannot be a part of a Law Enforcement agency, they can meet in the same building, maybe share some resources, and even accept donations.  The rest has to be run through the system.

Why not forgo the CAP side and just ramp up a local Police Explorer academy and forget about the regs from NHQ?

Then the liability, funding, and missions are all on the shoulders of the local city council and PD /FD chiefs.


CAP has a different mission than law enforcement, by design.  There are occasions when we can work together, but in most cases beyond the occasional woooded hard-target search, we're in different spaces.

[Earhart1971]

CAP cannot be a part of a Law Enforcement agency, they can meet in the same building, maybe share some resources, and even accept donations.  The rest has to be run through the system.

[/quote]

CAP can be supported by a Law Enforcement agency, it happens all the time on an informal basis, Squadrons meet at facilities, my old squadron did for years at the local Sheriff Training Center.

We can take money and support from anybody, and its clear to me and anybody else that we cannot be Law Enforcement Officers within CAP in CAP uniform.

No, I never "ran anything throught the "system" as far as getting a place to meet, or money or anything relative to starting a squadron.

But who knows my 33 years of CAP knowledge may be lacking.

What regulation governs getting permission to receive support from a Government agency?

Cite the Regulation that states required NOC approval.

If CAP cannot be sponsored by a SHERIFF cite the reg.

As long as the Squadron functions within CAP regulations, we can live anywhere, at a Sheriff Department, at a Firestation.

And if another Organization wants to sponsor CAP, thats OK too.


Quote: Reg, Chapter Para, and paste it here.

[Eclipse]

You have to seperate sponsorship from operational tasking.

It is not uncommon for local municipalities, states, PD/FD, etc., to provide facilities, money, and other resources.

But if that same agency wants CAP support in terms of mission activity, every instance must be approved by the State Director or the NOC.

[shorning]

You have to seperate sponsorship from operational tasking.

It is not uncommon for local municipalities, states, PD/FD, etc., to provide facilities, money, and other resources.

But if that same agency wants CAP support in terms of mission activity, every instance must be approved by the State Director or the NOC.

Not to mention that any agreement that obligates CAP to something (funds, work, etc), needs to be signed by a corporate officer.  That doesn't mean any ole S'Member.

[Eclipse]

A huge, salient point.

There is only one in each Wing - the Wing CC.    :clap:

[Pylon]

A huge, salient point.

There is only one in each Wing - the Wing CC.    :clap:

Well... some wings happen to have two or more corporate officers... if they've got a Region Commander, National Commander, National Vice, or other members of the NEC and NB residing in their Wing.

Of course, approvals would still go up the chain to the Wing King first... but some states do have several active corporate officers kicking 'round their parts.

[Eclipse]

But that is really a problem, not an advantage.

The chain should go up, not all around.  If the Region CC happens to live in a respectve state, he should still be waiting for the Wing CC to request approval.

Not saying a Region CC doesn't have the authority, etc., but...

[shorning]

[quote author=Pylon link=topic=699.msg7632#msg7632 Well... some wings happen to have two or more corporate officers... if they've got a Region Commander, National Commander, National Vice, or other members of the NEC and NB residing in their Wing.[/quote]

Your wing only has one.  The others just live there.  So there may be access to other corporate officers.  But they are still outside your wing.  

Besides, shouldn't we be handling issues at the lowest level possible?