Legality of Airband Handhelds by GT/UDF/etc

[JoeTomasone]

Recently I was on a UDF mission and had fixed the signal at a local airport.   When I got on the field, one of the guys from the FBO called the tower to let them know that I would be on the taxiways.   They asked if I had a radio to keep them updated on my movements (which I didn't).   

I know that several members own airband handhelds, but despite a pretty decent search I was unable to determine if we can use them legally - and if so, under what circumstances?   

For that matter, does anyone else come up against this issue at all?   

[SarDragon]

I've wondered about that myself, and have never gotten a satisfactory answer. IMHO, as long as we're not abusing the tenuous privilege, and nobody's complaining, keep on keepin' on. I still have my olde FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit, so I'm kinda legal as an operator, but I'm not sure at all about any station license.

[lordmonar]

Yes you can use them.

They may be used air to ground SAR and they may be used on an air field to talk to ground/dispatch/airfeild ops.

Of course all of this is on a "non-interference" basis.  We just can't hijack a frequency...but you certainly can pop up on the tower or ground freq to tell ATC that you are operating on their airfeild/space.  Remember....they are part of the SAR team too.

[SarDragon]

Yes you can use them.

Yes, we can (are able to) use them. And we do.

I think the basic Q here is, "are we authorized by some competent authority?", presumably the FCC.

[SJFedor]

I believe, technically, you're supposed to have an FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator's Permit to utilize them when not being used as part of the equipment on an aircraft. Like, if you're using your handheld in the aircraft because the aircraft radios are inop, that's acceptable, but if you're outside of the aircraft, you should have the FCC permit.

However, I don't believe this is very firmly (if at all) enforced. I'd be very surprised if I walked into my local FBO and saw their FCC Restricted Permit for the base station they have for the unicom radio.

However, an airband transciever is part of my standard equipment, both as a pilot and as a GTL. For some reason, once I get close in, especially in a hanger environment, I move a lot quicker with a handheld transciever then I do with an L-per or anything else.

[JoeTomasone]

Granted it is handy for many people for locating the ELT, but I'm really interested in the use of the radio to talk to the tower/FBO/etc and the legality thereof.

The best I was able to determine about the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit is:

"RP holders are authorized to operate most aircraft and aeronautical ground stations."

   However, it goes on to say that:

  An RP is NOT needed to operate the following:

    * a voluntarily equipped ship or aircraft station (including a CAP station) which operates only on VHF frequencies and does not make foreign voyages or flights.

    * an aeronautical ground or coast station which operates only on VHF frequencies.
(snip)

..So that's inconclusive if only that saying an RP is not needed doesn't specifically say WHAT (if anything) is needed.


A little more research seems to indicate that the use I described (SAR comms with aircraft and communication with the tower during ramp checks) would be covered here:

Aviation Auxiliary Group

Aeronautical search and rescue stations are used for air-to-ground communications during actual or practice search and rescue operations, or for search and rescue training.

Aeronautical utility mobile stations are installed in vehicles that provide maintenance, fire and crash protection, freight handling, or other group support normally under control tower direction at an airport. They are used for both operational and emergency communications.

OK, so we look in Part 87 to see what license is required (if any) and it apparently is cleared up:

                   Minimum Operator License or Permit

                       Land stations, all classes

--All frequencies except VHF telephony transmitters providing domestic
service...............................................................RP
(RP = Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit)


                     Aircraft stations, all classes

--Frequencies below 30 MHz allocated exclusively to aeronautical mobile
services..............................................................RP
--Frequencies below 30 MHz not allocated exclusively to aeronautical
mobile services.............................................MP or higher
--Frequencies above 30 MHz not allocated exclusively to aeronautical
mobile services and assigned for international use..........MP or higher
--Frequencies above 30 MHz not assigned for international use.......none
--Frequencies not used solely for telephone or exceeding 250 watts
carrier power or 1000 watts peak envelope power..............G or higher

    (c) The operator of a telephony station must directly supervise and
be responsible for any other person who transmits from the station, and
must ensure that such communications are in accordance with the station
license.
    (d) No operator license is required to:
    (1) Operate an aircraft radar set, radio altimeter, transponder or
other aircraft automatic radionavigation transmitter by flight
personnel;
    (2) Test an emergency locator transmitter or a survival craft
station used solely for survival purposes;
    (3) Operate an aeronautical enroute station which automatically
transmits digital communications to aircraft stations;
    (4) Operate a VHF telephony transmitter providing domestic service
or used on domestic flights.

So since we are operating a telephony land station on VHF providing domestic service, we apparently do NOT need a license.

I submitted a question to the FCC help desk asking what license (if any) is required for the usage described above and am waiting for an answer, which I will share.   

[Eclipse]

Most of the above is greek to me, especially when you start trying to indicate what is a "telephony ground station", etc.

Common sense tells me that the average CAP member is not authorized to simply grab an AV radio and start talking to the tower, especially when you consider that GMRS radios still require a $70 license.

It'll be interesting to see what the FCC says.

[JoeTomasone]

Most of the above is greek to me, especially when you start trying to indicate what is a "telephony ground station", etc.

Well, telephony is simply voice.   We operate VHF-FM telephony all the time with CAP radios.

Common sense tells me that the average CAP member is not authorized to simply grab an AV radio and start talking to the tower, especially when you consider that GMRS radios still require a $70 license.

It may be just that simple.   No license is required for marine stations on boats that communicate with the Coast Guard or on aircraft that communicate with the tower, but I guess we'll see.   My interpretation is that we don't need a license, but then again "I Am Not A Lawyer".

[lordmonar]

Yes you can use them.

Yes, we can (are able to) use them. And we do.

I think the basic Q here is, "are we authorized by some competent authority?", presumably the FCC.

I scanned the FCC regs on aviation radios and did not see anything that said we could not.   Assuming the "non-interferance" caviat and that we are in fact using them in relation to an aviation related activity (SAR, ELT, airport movement).

[Climbnsink]

I'm sure the AP tower would much prefer to have anyone moving around on the AP have a handheld.    I'm betting the rules don't have anything because handheld aviation radios that are small and cheap are relatively new.

[SarDragon]

OK, I guess I wasn't totally clear on my last post.

We have two different things going on here - operators, and radios. Each requires (in most cases) some sort of licensing.

The Restricted Radiotelephone Operators Permit covers the person pushing the PTT button. As noted, it is no longer in specified situations.

The radio station also needs to be licensed. This is the part I'm questioning. Look through all the licensing info and you'll see what I'm talking about. I haven't been able to find specific requirements for an "aeronautical utility mobile station", which is the application we're talking about here.

[Eclipse]

Assuming you're correct, and since most transmitters do require a license of some type, I'll bet that 99.9% of the AV-HT's
in pilot bags are not properly licensed.

[lordmonar]

My thinking....and this is just a guess is that hand helds do not require a license.....or else they would have tighter controls on them.   I may be wrong....

It may be one of those government issues where they may all require license but the FCC does not pursue the issue so long as no one complains.

[SarDragon]

Assuming you're correct, and since most transmitters do require a license of some type, I'll bet that 99.9% of the AV-HT's
in pilot bags are not properly licensed.

I think HTs in the A/C can be loosely lumped in with the A/C license. I don't see a problem with that. But what about the GTs and UDFTs who are out there with some sort of air band radios? There's no A/C umbrella then. This now ties us back to the OP.

My thinking....and this is just a guess is that hand helds do not require a license.....or else they would have tighter controls on them.   I may be wrong....

It may be one of those government issues where they may all require license but the FCC does not pursue the issue so long as no one complains.

Exactly my thinking.

[Ricochet13]

Just a thought here.

CAP is authorized two frequencies in the aircraft band. Both for use with non-participating aircraft (non-CAP).  Those are 122.9 for practice and 123.1 for actual SAR missions.

Not sure CAP is formally authorized to use unicom/multicom/etc. frequencies.  Nothing in the current CAPR100-series which mentions other aircraft band frequencies.

However, when on a mission and a tower or airport manager requests that CAP use the airport frequency, that would seem to fall under the airport's control of that assigned frequency.

My squadron does a courtesy patrol of the airport and includes a runway check.  The airport manager has authorized us to use the county frequency assigned to the airport in the interests of safety.

Good question though!  Will be interested to see how this shakes out.

[SarDragon]

Frequency control/assignment is not the same as transmitter licensing.

[JoeTomasone]

OK, so the first unsatisfactory answer from the FCC arrived on Friday.   I asked:

I am a member of the Civil Air Patrol and am trying to determine what license (if any) is required to operate a VHF-AM handheld radio to communicate with a tower at an airport and/or our aircraft.  Would this be an "Aeronautical Ground" station?  If not, what would it be classified as?

What I got back was:

Assuming that the airport already has a license for the equipment, an operator of this equipment would be required to have a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator permit, per 47 CFR 87.89(b).

This, of course, doesn't settle the issue; I guess I will have to file another question and rephrase to emphasize that this would be personally-owned equipment (not airport owned) that I would take from airport to airport and to different locations, communicating with a given tower or one of our aircraft as the situation warranted.


The good news, however, is that I did find my RROP (that I got WIWAC to use CAP radios at the time, ironically).   The grant date is 23 Dec 1983 - and I would have chucked it a long time ago since several rumors went around back then saying that they were obsoleted by the FCC and completely useless.   So if it does turn out that this is what I need, I won't have to pay the $60 duplicate fee (which is also the cost of a new one!).   Sometimes being a pack rat DOES pay off!   Incidentally, 25 years ago, they only cost you a postage stamp.....


Incidentally, I am eyeballing a Vertex VXA-710 since it is a cousin of my ham VX-7R and uses all the same batteries/accessories.   

[Eclipse]

This, of course, doesn't settle the issue; I guess I will have to file another question and rephrase to emphasize that this would be personally-owned equipment (not airport owned) that I would take from airport to airport and to different locations, communicating with a given tower or one of our aircraft as the situation warranted.

I don't see the need - to me this says that if you intend to xmit on an AV-Radio you need the RROP, which I'd be willing to guess most CAP guys carrying AV-Radios "just in case" do not have.

Is the RROP something you get as a matter of course in pilot training?

Just as a personal FYI - I've done more than my share of on-ramp UDF work and have never needed an AV-Radio.  My cel phone was sufficient for the manned airports, and the AV-Radio would be just as useless as the cel phone for unmanned airports, since there's no one there, anyway.

Come to think of it, I've never needed an AV-Radio for anything, even in heavy A/G coordination situations.  I have CAP radios for that, and in 9 years of pretty active ES, I've never had the need to speak to a tower or a non-CAP aircraft via radio.

[SJFedor]

Is the RROP something you get as a matter of course in pilot training?

Typically no, though most "professional pilots" are required to have it, since it's required whenever you fly an aircraft out of the US.

I keep mine as a "just in case" for both air and ground issues, in case someone screws up the CAP radio in the aircraft (has happened once, they acidentally reset the programming on the TDFM in flight, someone pushin buttons....) and used it on a very limited basis just to rejoin w/ the aircraft, and went a/g signals from therein.

They actually are kinda handy on an unmanned field, just to monitor the unicom so you hear what else is coming in.

And, I don't carry portable DF equipment when I fly. So when I do that 3am ELT search, and land at an airport, instead of just letting the signal transmit for a while till the GT shows, I can just track and locate with the handheld using a variety of techniques.

Although, only the operation where I actually spoke to the aircraft we were working with, would I have needed an RROP. All the others, i'm essentially using it as a scanner.

[JoeTomasone]

I don't see the need - to me this says that if you intend to xmit on an AV-Radio you need the RROP, which I'd be willing to guess most CAP guys carrying AV-Radios "just in case" do not have.

Well, not really.   The RROP is an operator permit, but not a station license.   They seem to indicate that you are acting under the station license of the airport ("Assuming that the airport already has a license for the equipment") - which of course would not be the case.   


I just submitted another help request:

I am a member of the Civil Air Patrol and am trying to determine what license (if any) is required to operate a VHF-AM handheld radio to communicate either with air traffic control towers at various airports or our own aircraft on aviation frequencies.   

The equipment in question would be owned by myself personally, and would primarily be used in conjunction with a search for an activated Emergency Locator Transmitter.  Therefore, I can see the operation falling under two sections of Part 87: Aeronautical Utility Mobile Stations (87.345) as we would be driving along taxiways looking for the ELT or as an Aeronautical Search and Rescue Station as we would be communicating with aircraft that are also involved int he search (87.371).   


My read of  section 87.89(d)(4) seems to indicate that NO license is required as the use is domestic VHF telephony.   

However, assuming I am incorrect, I do hold a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit - would that be sufficient?

I might also desire to communicate with our aircraft under normal operations on aviation frequencies in the event of a failure of our non-aviation radios on NTIA assigned frequencies.  Would this be permissible under Part 87?

I'll let you all know what response I get.