Saluting SMWOG

[hatentx]

So I know I asked this question a while back and was given the answer but with out references.  Last week a cadet and I got into the same discussion of a SMWOG is to be Saluted.  Although I returned the Salute and then sited that it was not required to do so while I am WOG.  I was asked my a C/ Major where I found that reg.  After some backwards stepping and such I realized I had no clue.  Please some help in where it states not to Salute a SMWOG.  Thanks.

[jimmydeanno]

It doesn't say "don't salute SMWOG."  It says you'll salute all officers.  Then CAPR 39-3 says "CAP officer grades are..." and starts at 2d Lt.

Then this leads you to the section about FOs, which says that members who are ineligible for CAP Officer Grade... (which implies that they aren't officers)

However, uniform accessories are that of Officers...

[0]

It could be agrued that as national wants all seniors to be called "Officers"  that we are all officers and thus a SMWOG would be saluted by cadets. 

[dhon27]

Wasn't there a recent publication that said that we're "senior members" again, not "officers"?

[JoeTomasone]

It doesn't say "don't salute SMWOG."  It says you'll salute all officers.  Then CAPR 39-3 says "CAP officer grades are..." and starts at 2d Lt.

Then this leads you to the section about FOs, which says that members who are ineligible for CAP Officer Grade... (which implies that they aren't officers)

However, uniform accessories are that of Officers...

I think that they separate FOs from the "over 21" officers strictly for reasons of age.  Everything I see indicates that FOs are indeed officers and would be saluted by a SMWOG:

1.  Promotion requirements are the same and when a FO turns 21, they are immediately transferred to 2Lt, 1Lt or Capt.

2.  They wear epaulets (senior NCOs do as well, but still).

3.  They wear the flight cap with silver braid as do 2Lt and higher.   "As senior member officers, flight officers wear the flight cap with silver and blue in a diamond pattern edge braid." (KB article)

4.  CAPP 3 states "Our ranks progress from Flight Officer, to Second Lieutenant to Major General."

5.  Flight Officers replaced Warrant Officers in the Air Force and are universally held to be the equivalent in rank.  Since Warrant Officers were universally considered to be Officers (as most recently exemplified by the C/WO being the first CAP Cadet Officer grade in the 80's which you earned with the Mitchell Award), the FO was undoubtedly an officer as well in the Air Force.


Now a SMWOG would not be saluted by anyone, but still has supervisory authority over the entire Cadet corps. (CAPR 52-16).

[MIKE]

However, uniform accessories are that of Officers...

Incorrect.  

[DNall]

FO's are saluted by both cadets and SMWOG. SMWOG is not saluted by anyone, but outranks cadets, just like an NCO.

[hatentx]

FO's are saluted by both cadets and SMWOG. SMWOG is not saluted by anyone, but outranks cadets, just like an NCO.

What is the reg that says this.  I understand as a SMWOG you are on probation for lack of a better term.  However I am looking to see where in black and white it gives this. 

[MIKE]

1-3. a. Officer: As used in this publication, includes senior member grades flight officer through major
general and cadet grades second lieutenant through colonel.
b. Airman: Unless otherwise specified, includes all other uniformed members both senior and
cadet.

Super Airman.

[DNall]

SMWOG is equiv to Airman Basic (E-1) on the adult side. Which does out rank any cadet, but does not outrank any NCO or FO. Which is as it should be since they are brand new comparing themselves to other adults who have been in the program at minimum several months & quite possibly several years. E-1s don't get saluted in anyone's uniform.

And what the hell man? Go chain that simulator to the wall. Three full Apache BNs in a 230 mile radius an no one gets a sim? What world does that make sense in?

[jimmydeanno]

However, uniform accessories are that of Officers...

Incorrect.  

Didn't mean SMWOG uniform accessories are that of Officer, meant FO's accessories (Flight Cap, etc). Disjointed connection...

[JoeTomasone]

FO's are saluted by both cadets and SMWOG. SMWOG is not saluted by anyone, but outranks cadets, just like an NCO.

What is the reg that says this.  I understand as a SMWOG you are on probation for lack of a better term.  However I am looking to see where in black and white it gives this. 

Actually, the document (CAPP 151) is a little weak on this.  While it does say that CAP members do exchange salutes, it does not include CAP Officers in the list of those that you salute.   However, it does correctly mention that you salute commissioned and warrant officers senior in rank to you. 

Since SMWOG is not an officer, they are not entitled to a salute (but it is not appropriate to salute one if you desire).    However, all Senior Members have "inherent supervisory authority" over cadets (CAPR 52-16), and thus outrank them, which in turn infers that they are not required to salute cadet officers.

[JayT]

It could be agrued that as national wants all seniors to be called "Officers"  that we are all officers and thus a SMWOG would be saluted by cadets. 

It doesn't matter what National "wants," it matters what's in the regs. We're not all officers.

Besides, did you read the orginal memo? It said that 'Officers' is only a term suppose to be used to reference outside information.

Attention to Detail!