CAP employee Uniform Wear

[DNall]

I don't really give a crap what these people wear, as long as it's not an embarrassment to the org on an AFB. But, it's not apples to oranges. That implies they are on some different plain than us. I don't give a crap how much someone gets paid or if they get paid at all. They're just one more body to me with equal standing. All I care about is their ability to perform above standard & synergisticly with the team. Your stereotypical civil service type employee is unacceptable.

Now, like I said, I don't care so much what these folks wear, but if I can turn an average employee into an even slightly more dedicated employee by altering the dress code a bit, you bet your butt I'll do that. It sounds silly that something like that would work, but it is working on a really wide scale in the Army right now.

If we "make them" wear uniforms the by rights we should pay for them...that is we should give them a clothing allowance.

The USAF clothing allowance is around $400/year....multiply that 100+/- employees....that comes to $40K per year.....just to get and keep our employees in uniform.

Okay.....now.....what program do you want to cut to pay for it?

$40K is two new vans.   It is a lot of flying hours.  It is the operating budge of a NSCA.

What's my clothing allowance again? Oh yeah, ZERO. Officers don't get one & must buy all items - trust me when I say the "extra pay" actually means you need a second job to cover your responsibilities, from uniforms to FRG. Guard/Reserve enlisted don't get any kind of allowance either. They can trade out items once every two years, IF the unit has spare budget to purchase replacement items, which is hit & miss at best.

So, right now you got employees in business attire. What does that wardrobe cost them? They cancel out.

Again though, I'm more concerned with the culture/psychology & resultant productivity of the people than whatever the dress code should or should not be. However, inconveniencing a hundred people doesn't bother me in the slightest if advances the purpose of the organization.

[Cecil DP]

The fact is that most of the employees at National Headquarters are and were members before being hired by National Headquarters. Many were actively recruited from the field to work there. So please don't refer to them as " Bland employees working to a minimum standard." I have never had a problem with the quality of the work done by National employees, they are always able to assist when called and ready to stay late to solve a problem.

As for the uniform issue as Bill B stated what uniform would you have them in? when I've gone to National they have always been in business attire which is appropriate for the work they do. I believe that having them wear a "military style" uniform would be counter productive, unless there was a ceremony or special requirement for it.

[jimmydeanno]

2. CAP members pay for their uniforms why not the employees pay for theirs

Most states require that if an employer requires that an employee wear a specific uniform or uniform item, the employer must provide a reasonable number of uniforms or items at no cost to the employee. 

This usually doesn't apply if the requirement is vague.  An example would be if the dress code was "jeans and a black t-shirt."  They are generic enough that the employer wouldn't have to pay for them.

However, switch that t-shirt to a "TECHNO-MART" branded polo shirt and they need to provide you with a few.  I think our uniforms would qualify in the "need to provide or compensate for" area.

[DNall]

The fact is that most of the employees at National Headquarters are and were members before being hired by National Headquarters. Many were actively recruited from the field to work there. So please don't refer to them as " Bland employees working to a minimum standard." I have never had a problem with the quality of the work done by National employees, they are always able to assist when called and ready to stay late to solve a problem.

As for the uniform issue as Bill B stated what uniform would you have them in? when I've gone to National they have always been in business attire which is appropriate for the work they do. I believe that having them wear a "military style" uniform would be counter productive, unless there was a ceremony or special requirement for it.

I did NOT refer to anyone as, "Bland employees working to a minimum standard." I said very specifically that I do NOT want such people, and would take such measures as necessary to prevent an individual of that nature to become or remain employed, or to allow a culture that would tolerate such unmotivated people. IF a dress code, possibly to include uniforms, would advance that agenda, then I have no issue with that at all.

I don't believe anyone has specified a uniform in the tread. However, the equiv of business attire is the AF-style blues shirt or white aviator-style alternative. I think for the most part you will find that to be less expensive than most appropriate business attire.

Most states require that if an employer requires that an employee wear a specific uniform or uniform item, the employer must provide a reasonable number of uniforms or items at no cost to the employee. 

And most employers reduce pay accordingly to pass on the costs. I also don't believe that's the case in AL.

[Eclipse]

2. CAP members pay for their uniforms why not the employees pay for theirs

Most states require that if an employer requires that an employee wear a specific uniform or uniform item, the employer must provide a reasonable number of uniforms or items at no cost to the employee. 

Please cite the states where that is the case, because it sure isn't where I'm from.

[jimmydeanno]

Please cite the states where that is the case, because it sure isn't where I'm from.

Based on my own experience, NH, MA, VA, ME.

I should probably rephrase because I don't have the time or the resources to search through 50 sets of state laws for that particular one.

So,

"Many states require that if an employer requires that an employee wear a specific uniform or uniform item, the employer must provide a reasonable number of uniforms or items at no cost to the employee." 

[JayT]

I think this is just another one of your solutions looking for a problem.

Ah, one of my favorite arguments to see on the board...as I've already explained, even things that are already working can always be improved without their necessarily having to be a "problem". 

Again, why don't we work on some of our legit problems before we start 'improving' stuff that doesn't need it.

So far, all of the 'for' arguments have been half straw grasps are comparisons to the Army, or the National Guard, or the Coast Guard in WWII, or whatever.

CAP Inc. employees have no reason to wear a CAP uniform to work. It's that simple.

[heliodoc]

Uniforms scmooooniforms

How about the real legit missions we are looking for???

Worried about some folks at NHQ, eh??

We are barely military with nall the rattle trap combos out there

Have to love all the RM responses, too

We really got to worry about OTHER things rather than play military dollhouse tryng to dress everyone appropriately...  I would venture to say about 10 % of the 50,000 or 60,000 CAP population really could care less

There are things out there simply MORE important than how we can dress NHQ

Again I spent 21yrs in Army NG Aviation and have gotten over some of the 670-1 / 39-1 syndrome and still shave when I don CAP duds

I have dressed appropriately for Title 32 , ARNG, CAP and my current gig ..... office duds or Nomex depending upon the mission

But you guys slay me with all "this is how we view CAP employees""


WOOOOOW!!!!!!!

[heliodoc]

oooops that 90% percent of the CAP population

[RiverAux]

I believe I've said somewhere in this thread that the golf shirt uniform would probably be the most appropriate.  I'm not a big fan of it, but as long as it is authorized, this would seem to be an good place for it.  However, the white aviatior shirt might even be better as it is a bit more formal and can be worn by everybody. 

By the way, if you want to discuss some other burning issues of critical important to CAP, we've got plenty of thread-space.   That doesn't preclude discussion of other minor issues, does it?  Whenever that objection pops up I'm always tempted to post a reply in every thread that day saying "Why aren't we talking about important issues?", no matter what the topic. 

[SarDragon]

I believe I've said somewhere in this thread that the golf shirt uniform would probably be the most appropriate.  I'm not a big fan of it, but as long as it is authorized, this would seem to be an good place for it.  However, the white aviatior shirt might even be better as it is a bit more formal and can be worn by everybody. 

By the way, if you want to discuss some other burning issues of critical important to CAP, we've got plenty of thread-space.   That doesn't preclude discussion of other minor issues, does it?  Whenever that objection pops up I'm always tempted to post a reply in every thread that day saying "Why aren't we talking about important issues?", no matter what the topic. 

But you, sir, still haven't presented a convincing argument for why this is an important issue. You still haven't adequately defined a "problem" that needs the solution you propose.

[RiverAux]

Just you don't like the justifications presented doesn't mean that they aren't there.  I get it...some of you don't think it is important... your voices have been heard...no need to repeat it.  Nothing wrong in voting in the poll and moving on...

[JayT]

Just you don't like the justifications presented doesn't mean that they aren't there.  I get it...some of you don't think it is important... your voices have been heard...no need to repeat it.  Nothing wrong in voting in the poll and moving on...

What justifications have been presented?

[Slim]

Please cite the states where that is the case, because it sure isn't where I'm from.

Based on my own experience, NH, MA, VA, ME.

I should probably rephrase because I don't have the time or the resources to search through 50 sets of state laws for that particular one.

So,

"Many states require that if an employer requires that an employee wear a specific uniform or uniform item, the employer must provide a reasonable number of uniforms or items at no cost to the employee." 

Add MI to that list.

[Eeyore]

The majority of paid CAP staff that I have come across do wear the CAP polo with some form of slacks.

I suppose there are areas where this may not be the case, but I feel that the paid staff tends to want to come across in a professional manner.