CAP employee Uniform Wear

[RiverAux]

CAP now has a fair number of full and part-time employees at NHQ, working for NHQ out at the Wing level, or in some cases, working directly for the wing only. 

Should these employees be required to wear a CAP uniform to work?  This assumes that CAP employees are also CAP members -- if they are not, should they also be members?

Personally, I think they should be required to wear CAP uniforms while at work for two reasons:

1.  These individuals are often asked to represent CAP in meetings with non-CAP members often in conjunction with regular CAP members who are in uniform.  In order to present a unified appearance everyone from CAP should be in a CAP unifoorm. 

2.  More importantly, these individuals, especially out in the Wings, are working at CAP buildings that are often visited by the public and other officials and I think having a uniformed person working in the building makes CAP look better than someone wearing non-CAP civilian workclothes. 

Now, if do want them in CAP uniform, which uniform should it be?  AF style? CAP corporate military style?  Golf shirt?  Individual choice?   

[arajca]

CAP now has a fair number of full and part-time employees at NHQ, working for NHQ out at the Wing level, or in some cases, working directly for the wing only. 

Should these employees be required to wear a CAP uniform to work?  This assumes that CAP employees are also CAP members -- if they are not, should they also be members?

Personally, I think they should be required to wear CAP uniforms while at work for two reasons:

1.  These individuals are often asked to represent CAP in meetings with non-CAP members often in conjunction with regular CAP members who are in uniform.  In order to present a unified appearance everyone from CAP should be in a CAP unifoorm. 

2.  More importantly, these individuals, especially out in the Wings, are working at CAP buildings that are often visited by the public and other officials and I think having a uniformed person working in the building makes CAP look better than someone wearing non-CAP civilian workclothes. 

Now, if do want them in CAP uniform, which uniform should it be?  AF style? CAP corporate military style?  Golf shirt?  Individual choice?   

One of the issues you need to deal with is the perceived level of authority provided by wearing the uniform. That being said, the COWG/AA generally wears a CAP oxford. The shirt identifies him as CAP, but does not confer authority. He also holds the rank/grade of Capt as a regular member. Given that the paid staff often interacts with folks of higher grade, do you want a 2d Lt representing CAP to high level executive. They may not know our system, but they know LT's are at the bottom of the officer food chain and could easily be insulted because no one of an appropriate grade/rank would meet with them.

The other benefit of the paid staff who are also volunteers not wearing a regular CAP uniform is it provides an easily identified separation between their CAP work and CAP volunteer service. The fire service went through a huge issue several years ago about paid firefighters who were also volunteers doing the same thing. The ruling was if the firefighter responded as a volunteer and was doing the same functions as their paid job for the same dept - even on a mutual aid call - they were required to be paid.

[RiverAux]

Personally, I suppose that if CAP employees were to wear uniforms I would go with the golf shirt combination for them.  It is fairly typical of the sort of clothes worn in most civilian offices and would present a uniform appearance.  I'm not a big fan of it for other CAP uses, but it would seem appropriate in this case. 

[FW]

I think the policy for employees (who are members) is not to wear a CAP uniform unless required for a specific reason.

Employed individuals who are "non exempt" can not work more than 40 hours/week without collecting overtime.  If the employee is also a member, there must be specific separation between volunteer duties and paid duties.  These rules are from federal and state employment codes.  Wearing a CAP uniform may blur the line and cause us problems.

[Eclipse]

...any more than military employees where uniforms at work.

[arajca]

...any more than military employees where uniforms at work.

Different rules. Military is a unique class and has different rules regarding work time. As has been pointed out many times before, CAP is not the military, so rules that apply to the military (UCMJ comes to mind) do apply to CAP. CAP employment rules fall under civilian employment rules.

[RiverAux]

I think the policy for employees (who are members) is not to wear a CAP uniform unless required for a specific reason.

Employed individuals who are "non exempt" can not work more than 40 hours/week without collecting overtime.  If the employee is also a member, there must be specific separation between volunteer duties and paid duties.  These rules are from federal and state employment codes.  Wearing a CAP uniform may blur the line and cause us problems.

If they are put in a situation where they may be doing the exact same thing one day for pay as they are doing the next as a volunteer, then we've got a bigger problem then what uniform they are wearing.  That is just going to cause all sorts of havoc for the reasons you describe.  

That being said, being required to wear a CAP uniform during their assigned work hours shouldn't be a problem.  

[arajca]

What needs to specified is what uniform you are talking about - service uniform, bdu's, flight suit, golf shirt, CSU,

A unique, paid staff uniform may be the right answer. A oxford or similar shirt with a CAP seal or crest would probably be appropriate. As long as it DOES NOT show up in CAPR 39-1, but is in the CAP employee rules.

Another issue is cost. When you start getting that specific, the employer needs to provide the uniform. Dark blue golf-style shirt is general enough to avoid problems, but dark blue golf-style shirt with CAP seal embriodered on the right breast is specific and rises to the "employer must provide" level.

[FW]

Yep, thats about right.  And, unless the Air Force agreed to let us spend "appropriated dollars" on the expense, we couldn't afford it.

[RiverAux]

When you start getting that specific, the employer needs to provide the uniform.

Says who? I have to wear the equivalent of the golf shirt uniform for my real job and it isn't provided.  Have to buy them.  That has been my experience in other jobs as well. 

[Eclipse]

...any more than military employees where uniforms at work.

Different rules. Military is a unique class and has different rules regarding work time. As has been pointed out many times before, CAP is not the military, so rules that apply to the military (UCMJ comes to mind) do apply to CAP. CAP employment rules fall under civilian employment rules.

The authority and involvement issues are the same, UCMJ or not.

Civilian employees of CAP, in that capacity, have no authority whatsoever regarding the membership, operations, or finances, thee are all the purview of members.

The same with civilian ee's of the military.

If they want a uniform, they should join, if they are members, while they are wearing the uniform they aren't employees.

[RiverAux]

At least in my local experience, all CAP employees in my state have also been CAP members. 

[Eclipse]

At least in my local experience, all CAP employees in my state have also been CAP members.

Not while they are drawing a paycheck.

[RiverAux]

At least in my local experience, all CAP employees in my state have also been CAP members.

Not while they are drawing a paycheck.

If you're a CAP member, you're ALWAYS a CAP member.  They weren't acting as CAP members while drawing the paycheck.  However, as noted above it could be hard to tell the difference if they do the same thing as members that they do as employees. 

[Eclipse]

At least in my local experience, all CAP employees in my state have also been CAP members.

Not while they are drawing a paycheck.

If you're a CAP member, you're ALWAYS a CAP member.  They weren't acting as CAP members while drawing the paycheck.  However, as noted above it could be hard to tell the difference if they do the same thing as members that they do as employees. 

I also don't know how many paid ee's your state has, but mine has two, an SD and a WA, neither are members, and I think you'll find that this is the case in the majority of states.

[RiverAux]

State Directors are not CAP employees they are civilians employed by CAP-USAF.  They are not the people I'm talking about, which would be the Wing Administrators employed by CAP NHQ and emplyees working at NHQ.  And some states already had employees working for them before the Wing Administrators came on. 

Incidentally, CAP-USAF State Directors do wear a golf-shirt type uniform to work, so why not our folks?

[Eclipse]

Incidentally, CAP-USAF State Directors do wear a golf-shirt type uniform to work, so why not our folks?

Um, no, they don't, at least not by definition.  They work in civilian dress.

As to our folks, whatever, give them all the extra VSAF shirts.

[lordmonar]

No one has brought up that you can't wear the unifrom while engaged in your employment.

[Eclipse]

No one has brought up that you can't wear the uniform while engaged in your employment.

heh...an interesting nuance...good point.

[RiverAux]

No, you can't wear the uniform in a non-CAP activity, which employment certainly is for 99.9% of CAP members.  However, by definition someone working for CAP is involved in a CAP activity and it wouldn't break any CAP regulations to require CAP employees to do so.  However, even if it appeared to be an issue, its a very easy fix in the regs.

Um, no, they don't, at least not by definition.  They work in civilian dress.

What definition are you talking about?  A uniform doesn't necessarily have to be a military uniform.  Pretty much the definition I use is that if you're required to wear something, it is a uniform.