Can the Uniform Policy save the Credibility of the CAP?

[Civilian_Pilot]

Can it?  Of course I only suggest this in jest; but it really isn't.

Upon observing the CAP through news stories, this website, and my own personal observation it seems to me that there are actually two versions of CAP paraded as one.

On one level you have the little guy who I think is the real core of the CAP who is genuinely interested in the task of search and rescue.  They enjoy every level of it from organizing the area, using the equipment, doing the search.  There is no glory to them about being in the media spotlight or local newspaper.  They are there for the true intended mission of the CAP.

To you guys--You have my utmost respect.

But then you have everything surrounding the core---and it is rotten.  I am talking about the glory hounds, uniform junkies who love medals and "how to wear them", power grabbers, rumour mongers, and quasi-military want-to-be's.

Yeah, you're ruining the organization.

A good example of this is contained in a locked thread on this web-board where a member goes off about how the CAP patrols of WWII fought off submarines using that as an example of "how dare you question the modern CAP".

Well I have news for you.  The First Generation of CAP cared less about uniforms and more about how to get the job done.  How dare you use their good deeds to justify what the organization has become?

I don't want anyone to think I am against the CAP.  In fact I am writing this as a RED LETTER to where you are headed so that someone can try and correct it.  One only needs to look at the recent Steve Fossett search or the even more recent Steve Fossett statements from the CAP to understand what I am speaking of.

I do not want this to be a Steve Fossett topic so understand these are only softball examples to what I really have been made aware of from within the CAP.

I would like this to be a discussion of how to change the course of the current direction.

If you don't have constructive responses I prefer you find another topic to direct your attention to.

[JC004]

ok, the bold hurts.

[arajca]

To answer the topic:
It can help, but more important is having members that will follow the policy. If you look at most of the arguements over uniform policy - excluding the dreams - they fall into "following the reg as written" vs "follow the reg as I interpret it". I fall into the first group.

A sensible policy - meaning one equal uniform for ewach AF combo atuhorized - will work wonders for CAP.

[Civilian_Pilot]

To answer the topic:
It can help, but more important is having members that will follow the policy. If you look at most of the arguments over uniform policy - excluding the dreams - they fall into "following the reg as written" vs "follow the reg as I interpret it". I fall into the first group.

A sensible policy - meaning one equal uniform for ewach AF combo atuhorized - will work wonders for CAP.

Really?  I would think it would be more important to have a membership who are more concerned about the core mission of CAP than the dogmatic uniform policy.

You can pin all the medals and ribbons with their lavender epaulets and it won't make a sliver difference in what is at the core of the person.

In fact I would argue that someone who browbeats everyone over uniform policy actually chases off individuals who are there for the core mission of CAP.

Having stated the above, I think you missed the real question and task of the initial message.

[A.Member]

ok, the bold hurts.

No kidding.  What was the point of all the bold?  It appears to be used randomly as opposed to emphasizing any particular point.

Anyway, to the OP, I disagree with most of your observations.  In addition, you seem to have forgotten than CAP actually has 3 missions, not just one.    

However, the real point of your post seems to be around the need for uniforms in the organization (a need which you evidently do not agree with).  There will always be people that like uniforms and those that don't.   There will also be people that perform and those that do not.  Uniforms are part of our organization, plain and simple.   And because of our purpose (our missions), they are necessary.  

Here's the question I have...why would anyone who doesn't like uniforms join this organization when it's quite clear they are required?  Do you feel misled in some way?

Your post is actually just a retread of about a thousand similar posts/discussions that have taken place here over the years.

[Civilian_Pilot]

Please read the lower half of the original post; in particular the 2nd to last sentence.

It isn't about uniforms......

[Civilian_Pilot]

Your post is actually just a retread of about a thousand similar posts/discussions that have taken place here over the years.

And??  So??  When will you become aware that there is a problem?

[FW]

If everyone wore the uniform appropriatly, I guess we would be more credible BUT,

In my 33 years of membership in CAP,  I've seen some pretty dumb things done.  However, most of the time we've been right on target.  Every organization has its good and bad.  Every one of us has done an occasional "oops" or has had a "how about me" experience.  That's what being human is all about.  The problem I see is how we learn from our experiences and improve in all we do.  

Most of today's senior CAP leadership has been actively involved in all phases of CAP for many years.  We've all taken our hits and learned from our mistakes.  We are open to suggestions and our priority is to continually improve our operations and procedures.  

I can not speak directly on the Fossett search however, I have no doubt everyone concerned acted in the best manner they could.   Our record over the years in SAR/DR/CN is second to none and, I have no reservations on our continued success.  I have complete confidence in the NOC, and the many ICs, and mission staff members who routinely show up and get the job accomplished.  I really never met a member who just showed up at a mission base looking for glory or medals.  They usually showed up looking to help out; no matter how they wore the uniform.  

But this is my experience only.  YMMV and, although I have seen the articles and stories you refer to,  I strongly disagree with your assessment.  I strongly feel we are stronger than ever.  Our leadership has never been more responsive and, I have no doubt we will learn from mistakes made in the Fossett mission and go on.

[BillB]

Hey CP.... I have news for you. Those first generation CAP members you speak of, had DAILY uniform inspections. I know, as a pre-teen I used to watch them. So the uniform mattered!!!!

[mikeylikey]

Ok.......can we stop using BOLD???

[mikeylikey]

 I strongly feel we are stronger than ever.  Our leadership has never been more responsive and, I have no doubt we will learn from mistakes made in the Fossett mission and go on.

Beat me to it Sir!

[Civilian_Pilot]

Hey CP.... I have news for you. Those first generation CAP members you speak of, had DAILY uniform inspections. I know, as a pre-teen I used to watch them. So the uniform mattered!!!!

Really?? Did it matter more than the intended role for CAP??

Was the uniform more important than Search and Rescue??

That's the real question. 

And just so you know Bill, you may have been a pre-teen but there are many pictures of the CAP in WWII operating without any type uniform.

[MIKE]

And just so you know Bill, you may have been a pre-teen but there are many pictures of the CAP in WWII operating without any type uniform.

Then they found out they could be shot as spies if captured.

[mikeylikey]

Really?? Did it matter more than the intended role for CAP??

Was the uniform more important than Search and Rescue??

That's the real question. 

And just so you know Bill, you may have been a pre-teen but there are many pictures of the CAP in WWII operating without any type uniform.

Actually the uniform did matter.  It mattered if the pilots were shot down, it mattered if they were captured, and it mattered to the Army.  The uniform mattered more back then unlike today.  

Also if CAP flight crews flew in anything but a CAP uniform that was wrong, and against standing regulations of the period.    

[A.Member]

Hey CP.... I have news for you. Those first generation CAP members you speak of, had DAILY uniform inspections. I know, as a pre-teen I used to watch them. So the uniform mattered!!!!

Really?? Did it matter more than the intended role for CAP??

Was the uniform more important than Search and Rescue??

That's the real question. 

The two are not mutually exclusive.   You seem to imply that they are  (ie. it's one or the other).  That's not the case.

[Civilian_Pilot]

Really?? Did it matter more than the intended role for CAP??

Was the uniform more important than Search and Rescue??

That's the real question. 

And just so you know Bill, you may have been a pre-teen but there are many pictures of the CAP in WWII operating without any type uniform.

Actually the uniform did matter.  It mattered if the pilots were shot down, it mattered if they were captured, and it mattered to the Army.  The uniform mattered more back then unlike today.  

Also if CAP flight crews flew in anything but a CAP uniform that was wrong, and against standing regulations of the period.    

OK Mikey I don't deal with hysterics,  so I've just got to ask--who was shooting at the CAP and capturing them?

Was one single member of CAP captured during WWII?

I know there were a few Submarine encounters.  I am talking about an actual capture.

[Larry Mangum]

Since CAP does have prescribed uniforms, it does matter how people wear them.  It is impossible to project a professional image if people can wear them however they like.  CAP interfaces with the Police, Medical Professionals, the military, and a plethora of State, local and government agencies.  It is extremely important how we both look and present ourselves.

I think you have lurked onto this board which is open to everyone, but oriented to wards CAP Members and have drawn erroneous conclusions, without really understanding the organization nor its multifaceted missions.  The various posts on this site are indicative of a healthy organization whose members are constantly discussing ways to improve upon it as well as providing the members a way to vent their frustrations.

Are you even a member? If not, check out a local unit or two and talk to the members to find out why they belong and what they feel the role of the organization is and why the individual members joined.  If you met 20 members, I bet you would get 20 different reasons for why they joined, but find that they are united in a wish to serve their communites and state.

[Civilian_Pilot]

Hey CP.... I have news for you. Those first generation CAP members you speak of, had DAILY uniform inspections. I know, as a pre-teen I used to watch them. So the uniform mattered!!!!

Really?? Did it matter more than the intended role for CAP??

Was the uniform more important than Search and Rescue??

That's the real question. 

The two are not mutually exclusive.   You seem to imply that they are  (ie. it's one or the other).  That's not the case.

I concur.

The problem is when the organization convolutes the uniform policy to be at the same level of importance as the Search and Rescue mission.

Uniform by definition means "the same".  A uniform can be as simple as a blue jumpsuit and CAP patch.  Somehow this has been extrapolated into much more for really no reason.

One thing everyone ought to understand is that Uniforms, bells, whistles do not command authority.  It how the person who wields it is respected by his peers.

Here is a very telling incident:  http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3202.0

Pretty amazing if you really read it to the entirety.

[lordmonar]

I object the the false dichotomy of the OP.

I am very committed to the missions of CAP (all three of them) and I too am a uniform/bling hound.

You can be both.

I also object to the original question.  First....it assumes that CAP's credibility is in some sort of jeopardy.   I have not seen that.

Second....it implies that someone has tried to solve our supposed creditability issue with a uniform policy....and that is just not true.

[Civilian_Pilot]

I also object to the original question.  First....it assumes that CAP's credibility is in some sort of jeopardy.   I have not seen that.

Please see here:  http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5624.0

Or this:  The California Wing Commander was just relieved, in part for the disorganization that you saw in Minden. 

Or this:  The Arizona Wing Commander just resigned when it was pointed out to Headquarters that he was a convicted felon.

And I won't even go into what I know about Florida.

But the point of this is supposed to be How can the CAP direct itself fully into the Search and Rescue Mission while making less of issues like Uniform Policies?