Vehicle Log

[SSgt Rudin]

Why do we log hours on vans?

What defines "use"? If I take a van to encampment and it is used for 3 hours to drive there, twice for a total of 45 minutes at encampment, and 3 hours to drive back, is that 7 hours (round up) of use or 168 since the van was "unavailable" for others to use?

If we are supposed to log actual use why isn't there a hour meter in the van?

They are vans not aircraft, maintenance is based on millage not engine hours. I can use a van for an hour and put 10 miles on it or 60, how is logging hours effective or informative?

[Tubacap]

You know, after just coming back from our encampment and filing out the daily use log every day, I have the exact same question!

[RiverAux]

I've never really thought it was that critical overall, but you could look at it as it doesn't matter that the van wasn't driven but a few miles during encampment, but it was dedicated to that use for X number of hours and that figure would be more useful for those charged with figuring out where vans are most needed.  One van could sit and do nothing for 30 days and then make one 300 mile trip while another might be used on 15 days and only be driven 150 miles.  Which unit needs the van more?  Arranging a carpool once a month is much, much easier than doing it 15 times a month. 

However, like most of what CAP demands reports on, the info tends to get dropped into a black hole and no one ever gets any feedback.  Hopefully someone, somewhere is using all that information on a regular basis, but I doubt it. 

[jimmydeanno]

The number of "hours used" isn't logged the same way that the aircraft are.  When the van leaves the origin (your squadron's parking lot) the time ticks until it is back.  So if you drive 20 minutes down the road to an activity, it sits in that parking lot for 5 hours and another 20 minute drive home you log 5 hours and 40 minutes for 1 use.

For encampment they should log the total number of hours it was used before returning back to where it came from.  If the encampment is 10 days, log 240 hours (or applicable amount of time accordingly).

They also record the mileage at the end of each month and the total number of times used.

[Pylon]

It makes sense.  I might use a van on the flight line shuttling aircrew back and forth from the hangar and fuel farm to the CAP ops building and pilots lounge for hours during a SAREX.  We might only clock a couple of miles total throughout the whole ordeal, but we were utilizing the van for those hours.

It probably helps us justify the van fleet to the Air Force, by showing utilization even if that's not always best measured in the form of miles.

[Larry Mangum]

The vehicle logs are used to complete the vehicle utilization form that transportation officers have to fill out every month in eservices.  Those values are rolled up across the wings and region and are used to justify the vehicles provided by the USAF. With out the logs, and the resulting reports there would be no measureable data to justify their purchase and maintenance.

[mikeylikey]

^More importantly it helps Wing and Region move vehicles to units that will actually make use of them. 

[Capt Rivera]

So do you log 1 use for the entire encampment or do you also log each use at the encampment....?

After the last Join Dakota Encampment which had at least 5 states in attendance, i really think the form needs to be redone in a more clear way with better directions.

[Yes a person should get the training before being licensed, but people also forget]

It needs to be made so that anyone, regardless of experience/training, can look at the form and know exactly what to do.

I know my experience is not all conclusive, but it did show that it is a wide spread issue... How much of a issue? that depends if you need a van or not and incorrect paperwork keeps you from getting one....

[Eclipse]

My wing's instrcutions for logging are "any hours away from the vehicles normal home base".

Recently it went through a major refurb repair with 4 uses, logged as below, wing said I did it right.

use / hours

1 / 1  - Reposition to new location.

1 / 1 - Trip to unit to show new vehicle

1 / 1 - Dealer for estimate

1 / 72 - Back to dealer for approved repairs and while it was in their shop

1 / 1 - parts run for trailer hitch and other accessories

The vehicle showed 4 uses in Aug w/ 76 hours away from home base.
Mileage is reflected in other reports and online (we have an online reporting system).

[Capt Rivera]

So do instructions/requirements differ from wing to wing, region to region?.... Shouldn't there be one and only 1 standard & form for the nation in order to best field vehicles?

I assumed the form was a CAP F x? without the form in front of me, I couldn't tell you where its from or whats requested (exactly) on it....

[jimmydeanno]

So do instructions/requirements differ from wing to wing, region to region?.... Shouldn't there be one and only 1 standard & form for the nation in order to best field vehicles?

I assumed the form was a CAP F x? without the form in front of me, I couldn't tell you where its from or whats requested (exactly) on it....

Vehicle Usage Log is a CAPF 73, it can be found on cap.gov.  It should be the same for everyone.

[Eclipse]

The form I'm referring to is the CAPF 73: http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_090303073049.pdf

My wing appears to be using the same version found above.

[Capt Rivera]

The form I'm referring to is the CAPF 73: http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_090303073049.pdf
My wing appears to be using the same version found above.

ok... from what you previously said i thought you were using something different... Same thing we use, and what was used at the Encampment... but for sure, there were people who couldn't fill it out properly... I drove vans from at least 3 wings and each had errors... [not saying i didn't make any] 

[Eclipse]

Those errors will show up in their SUI's or CI's, if not sooner, and hopefully corrective action will be taken.

In my recent acceptance and refurb of a van for my Group, I was disappointed, but not surprised, to see how little respect some of our members have for what is ultimately taxpayer funded property.

Poor maintenance, poor record keeping, and the general "rental car" mentality referred to in other threads.

There's no way to force people to do what's right, but you can keep them from repeating their mistakes by limiting their access to these resources for future use.

[heliodoc]

A liitle leadership could /would help

Maybe the old Army / Forest Service hip pocket / Six minutes for safety deal

Back to remedials.... Bring vehicle or SM all to one place ..

SHOW 'em  a walk around
SHOW 'em how to fill out the paperwork..did this inthe Army and had others fill out to show if understood
SHOW em some BASIC maintenance  we are all not ASE certified mechanics with Scan testers

One can talk about the lack of "respect"  but it takes leadership and a little "taking folks by the hand" and demonstrating the basics 

AND if that is tooooo basic and BORING, well too bad.  I' ve seen plenty of lack of leadership and what APPEARS to be leadership in CAP and maybe that is what we get in a VOLUNTEER organization

Less chirping on this forum and less criticism and MORE showing in CAP would go along way....
But Leadership in CAP is what is lacking and you can only show and tell so much

CAP vehicle and aircraft all come with the basic manuals and its time the CAP leadership at all levels take a deep look at theirselves and SEE what THEY are doing wrong before the blame goes out to the general membership.....

[Eclipse]

^^ You're insinuating this is somehow caused by lack of leadership or failing on the part of CAP, which its not.

We're not talking about anything even as "advanced" as checking the air in the tires, we're talking about the basic level of
respect a person should show for someone else's property or a shared resource.

Advanced ideas like:

Cleaning up after yourself.
Replacing fuel.
Reporting things that don't work.

The same things anyone would expect if they lent their friend their car.

[heliodoc]

Guess that boils down leadership, too, Eclipse,  I am soory to say

Every where that I have been, it takes reminding people to do the right thing

Reporting things that don't work, that goes under the walkaround and writing in a vehicle log OR if the membership can remember to to call the Unit CCV or Log Officer

But again, reminders do not hurt anybody

When I get asked to use my truck, you know what I say??   Could you clean it up after yourself??

It is not that hard

The Army will tell you ALLLL about the lack of leadership in EVERY breakdown even to the simplest cleaning operation.....

It's their way.   BUT CAP has their way, too!!  IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO LEADERSHIP.  AND CAP lacks plenty

[SJFedor]

I don't drive COVs too often, but TNWG, in addition to the F73, actually uses a mileage form similar to what we have in the aircraft. Driver, purpose, start/end mileage.

Kinda surprises me that the AF wouldn't be more interested mileage then "time in use". One could justify that anytime a qualified driver is near it, it's "in use" because someone is there to possibly operate it.

[brasda91]

So do you log 1 use for the entire encampment or do you also log each use at the encampment....?

Each day.  Here is my August F73.

[SSgt Rudin]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh OPSEC! Now the terrorists will know how much you use your van!!!!