Has anyone ever seen a Practice PLB?

[KyCAP]

I have one of the SEIMAC practice EPIRBS....  So my question is .... Does anyone know if ACR has ever produced a practice PLB for demo or actual training?'

Anyone out there ever attemped to call ACR or know anyone that works there?

[RiverAux]

They're all transmitting on the same frequency so I don't see any real need to try to match up the manufacturer of the practice beacon with your DF gear.  I'd just shop around for the best price and quality.

[KyCAP]

Actually, there is a discussion on the CAP-DC list about this issue.  All "practice beacons" are not created equally.  We are starting to "think" that we understand some of the beacons are transmitting on the actual SAR frequency in inverted frame mode (dumping their data payload) yet possibly interfering with actual SAR frequency (statistically low probability).

Yet, my question is more to the "aesthetics" of the ACR PLB as a "teaching prop" for use in educating folks about WHAT an "ACR PLB" is and looks like...   See my other thread about "external training opportunities".

[N Harmon]

I seem to recall at the last AFRCC SMC I attended they had some PLB demo units that were non-functional. There was a McMurdo demo unit, but I don't remember what the other one was.

[lordmonar]

Actually, there is a discussion on the CAP-DC list about this issue.  All "practice beacons" are not created equally.  We are starting to "think" that we understand some of the beacons are transmitting on the actual SAR frequency in inverted frame mode (dumping their data payload) yet possibly interfering with actual SAR frequency (statistically low probability).

Yet, my question is more to the "aesthetics" of the ACR PLB as a "teaching prop" for use in educating folks about WHAT an "ACR PLB" is and looks like...   See my other thread about "external training opportunities".

Not to be too sarcastic.....but what's to teach?  Extend the antenna exposing the power button....push button....wait for help.

[wingnut55]

all 406 units will transmit a tone signal on 121.5 for dfing, the 406 transmission is a recurring data burst, you will need a special receiver and a computer to decode the signal, remember the 406 units will have the owners information embedded in the signal, and /or a GPS coordinate. The point is the 121.5 transmitter is a low power unit,and the satellite's will no longer be receiving the 121.5,  We will have to improve our DFing capabilities because the signals will have less power. No need to have a 406 mhz DF unit although the Becker units have it.

Bottom line I don't believe that there is a 406 practice frequency allocated by the FCC. They are the Frequency Managers for the Nation.

[Eclipse]

Print the above, there's your demo.

To a searcher, what the unit looks like doesn't mean much, any more than what an ELT actually looks like means much.
I suppose you could make the argument that once you find it you should know how to silence it, But I've found in a pinch
a quick slam to the ground will handle that.   

As noted, the 406 is a data burst, not something you can DF on, and the 121.5 constant signal is the same as an ELT.

BTW - the 406 databurst is great, if a satellite is around when the thing chirps, and assuming that the device has a GPS fix as well, otherwise, you're going to be SOL.  Where do you have the most problem with GPS reception?  Heavy canopy and cloudy days.

At least in the Midwest, when planes crash and are actually LOST, it is generally after bad weather or into a wooded area.

This new ELT idea might be great for reducing false alarms, but not so much for actually finding crashed airplanes.   

[lordmonar]

This new ELT idea might be great for reducing false alarms, but not so much for actually finding crashed airplanes.   

Disagree....

The new system...even with out GPS gives you a MUCH better fix on the target.( 5Km (100m with GPS) vice 20 Km)

It also gives you quicker fix on the target (5 mins vice 45 mins)....as the satellites are in geosycronis orbit....so they are always there....and you don't need to wait for several passes for LEOSARs to get a fix. (only 1 pass vice 2)

The 121.5 signal...while lower power will actually save more lives as it will use less battery power and stay active longer and is still powerful enough for good DF once you are in the probablity area.

The heavy canopy and cloudy days issue is and will always be a problem.

[KyCAP]

To catch up some discussion in this thread. 

Teaching - There is actually quite a bit to "teach" to this.  To our membership there is a lot of misconception about the behavior of these units.   For example, they can be DF'ed with a Becker doppler unit "to a point".  At that point, then the homing frequency is used on the 121.5 Mhz side.

Also, I am learning that if the GPS doesn't have satelite aquisition then they only data burst every 5 minutes vs 50 miliseconds. 

Apparently, these 406 beacons are required for all offshore workers in the North Sea.  The coast guard is buying them for everyone in their units.  Europe is already using them.

More on teaching... Many emergency managers probably have never seen a PLB or an EPIRB.   So visual teaching aids are valuable to educate them about the mission of the CAP.  Similiarly, I would have a DF unit in the same class.

The problem is that the PLB's are $600 - $700.   

Most of the 406 Mhz "Practice Beacons" are full-production units with some programming that inverts the first frame in the data packet forcing the satellite to drop it. Therefore, these things cost $1000 - $2000 in order to train aircrews how to use the Becker Doppler in our aircraft.

One of the issues in the thread discussed the tree canopy problem. The GPS uses the last good lat/lon in memory at the time of activation...

Behavior.   I think that NHQ needs to start acquiring information from the ELT manufactuers to understand if these are all actually behaving the same way for mission intelligence in the future.

Agree... Our response times need to increase to match the response times performance increased from the new technology.

[Eclipse]

I could see having a different ELT, or possibly detuning one to match the output power of a new type transmitter, but I see no value in having a functional 406 unit. 

CAP isn't responsible for receiving or decoding the signal, so there's nothing to train on.

For realistic exercises you could get some examples of how the coordinates are transmitted, etc., and then just add that to the scenario.

Also, since these are PLB's, not ELT's, considering the error radius of GPS, there are plenty of places the person or devices could be hidden in, making the 121.5 signal all the more important.

[KyCAP]

I am not saying that we need an "emergency beacon".   

Again, training is needed in this area.   One of the previous posts mentioned there is no "practice" 406 freq and the FCC is in control of those....

1) Emergency beacons are on 406.025
2) Practice/test beacons should be on 406.10   
(above information from page 7 of the becker operators manual)

Currently, we are only seeing beacons on the ACTUAL SAR freq with the inverted frame.   This does NOT allow the proper training and testing of the gear that CAP ALREADY owns.

http://kywgcap.org/Portals/28/manuals/SARDF517-I+O.pdf

Page 10 of the operators manual for the Becker DF unit describes the procedures for analyzing the 406 beacon.   There are many reasons that this should be done...

Without the proper beacon and gear we can't train on our DF units.

[N Harmon]

By the way, is CAP replacing the old 121.5 ELTs in our planes with newer 406mhz beacons?

[Eclipse]

By the way, is CAP replacing the old 121.5 ELTs in our planes with newer 406mhz beacons?

Sure, right after narrow band is done!   

[lordmonar]

By the way, is CAP replacing the old 121.5 ELTs in our planes with newer 406mhz beacons?

Sure, right after narrow band is done!   

I thought I saw that as a budget item a while back....IIRC when the planes go in for their annual they are supposed to get the unit.

[KyCAP]

These guys are basically in Knoxville.  Maybe they could  be invited to the TN Wing Conference in Gatlinburg?

[KyCAP]

Also, 50% of our planes (4 out of 8 ) have the 406/GPS coupled units in Ky.  I suspect that NHQ is trying to wait to see what gets retired with new purchases before $1000 per plane expense.