Careers in ES?

[isuhawkeye]

If you want to work ES for a career the Midwest is a great place to get your feet wet. 

Here around Des Moines IA we still have a number of Paid Per call/Part Time fire departments.  It is fairly easy to get on.  They pay for training, in Fire, and EMS.  Several Counties have Search and Rescue Teams, and our State has a growing USAR team which will send you to Texas Tech for training

What I recommend is that young folks get a flexible hourly job, find the dept they want to work part time for, then get a cheap apartment in that dept's first due.  Build your resume, and get into the state's pension system, and then start applying for municipal jobs. 


That's the Fire/EMS route any way

[JayT]

You gotta wonder why NHQ hasn't instituted PT requirements for GTM and GTL by now (that's a whole different can of worms).

Because it hasn't been needed up until now.

It's needed? 

Eh, I'm still in 'FEMA requirments are gonna shut us down!' mood.

[isuhawkeye]

shut you down...

Howe do you figure?

[JayT]

shut you down...

Howe do you figure?

Well, if we have to start going to SARTECH requirements, a lot of our jolly vollys aren't going to be happy.

[isuhawkeye]

If you are training your people to the established CAP standards you should meet the SARTECH II. 

There is a very manageable difference between the two

[IceNine]

v

shut you down...

Howe do you figure?

Well, if we have to start going to SARTECH requirements, a lot of our jolly vollys aren't going to be happy.

Just like when we transitioned to task based training, and when they changed to GTM and IC levels, and when they add different tasks.  There is going to be some folks that stop their feet and pout about it but to me the folks that won't fall in line with the new requirements are the ones that are going to be a PITA on a mission anyway.

There are plenty of folks that just want the best training possible and losing the small percentage that are too stubbon to realize a good thing, is not really a loss anyway

[proveritas]

Well, even if CAP GSAR and SARTECH are roughly equivalent, I can see the value of "crosstraining" if only to give CAP personnel experience working with other SAR organizations. (Our methods aren't going to be the same as a team specializing in GSAR.) Might make us stronger as an org in the long run?  

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

Twenty

[RiverAux]

All the SARTECH program is is a testing program.  There may or may not be actual NASAR-based training classes available in your area and if they are, they may or may not be given by someone currently associated with another SAR organization.  I know in my state there are a lot more testing opportunities than training opportunities from the NASAR-affiliated groups.   Keep in mind there is a money-making motive associated with NASAR certification. 

[isuhawkeye]

I agree completely.  CAP in Iowa had trained and tested nearly a dozen SAR Tech's.

It validates your skills, and provides a common framework when working with other SAR groups

[lordmonar]

You gotta wonder why NHQ hasn't instituted PT requirements for GTM and GTL by now (that's a whole different can of worms).

Because it hasn't been needed up until now.

It's needed? 

Eh, I'm still in 'FEMA requirments are gonna shut us down!' mood.

I have not seen anything in the FEMA requirements that require any PT test.....in fact the FEMA typing system does not really mandate any sort of training except vague language that says

Rescue Capability-Trained rescue personnel with experience in nontechnical backcountry evacuation/carryouts supported by local technical experts

Search Capability-Capable of searching high-probability local wilderness terrain for short durations (24 hours or less)

Training- Must be able to operate the team's equipment; Team members are not expected to operate in remote field locations for extended periods; Must have basic navigation training using a map and compass; Must have technical proficiency in personal survival in local wilderness terrain; Must have awareness of mantracking and maintaining site integrity. Must have a basic understanding of the ICS; Must have proficiency in hasty search techniques

Medical-As appropriate for level of training, as applied in wilderness environment and meeting local protocols and requirements for support of the team

The NIMS standards will not preclude us from participating.   We just can't ever provide an resource higher than Type III because the EMT requirements for Type II and higher.

[CadetProgramGuy]

The NIMS standards will not preclude us from participating.   We just can't ever provide an resource higher than Type III because the EMT requirements for Type II and higher.

Thats one of the many reasons I went and got my EMT done.  One of the many reasons that I believe there should be a FR Encampment to start to qualify more Medics.

[proveritas]

Lordmonar, JThemann may be referring just to people balking about the new FEMA training requirements. New regs --> people dropping out.

I don't see why the new NIMS stuff *should* shut us down, because everyone in ES/SAR now has to take the training if their parent org gets federal funds. You'll have to do the training eventually no matter who you're with, so either you suck it up and do it or you drop out of ES work completely.

[sarmed1]

The PT standard is in the document that details the individual training standards for all position types, not the one for team types  ( if I can find it later I'll post it)

in the proposed update/changes the EMT Stadard was reduced to wilderness first responder.Which is easier to obtain and maintain than EMT.  All FR ireally is advanced first aid with oxygen and blood pressure taking.
Not that hard, and only going to put CAP out of the LSAR game if we want to let it.

mk

[RiverAux]

It just says that there will be some sort of physical requirement, but doesn't specify what it is.  If I recall, it lets the agency determine what is appropriate for them. 

[sarmed1]

Physical/ Medical Fitness
Completion of the following baseline criteria:
1. Medical requirements established by the AHJ
2. Minimum physical fitness standards as required by the AHJ, such as:
  MRA 105.1 Fitness
  CO WSAR Fitness
  NWCG Pack Test "Arduous"
  MCSOMR/CAMRA Mountain Rescue Specific Physical Ability Test
(MRSPAT)
  NIMS WSAR Type II and IV Fitness
3. CDC/ WHO recommended inoculations

The theory being that CAP is the AHJ and could make up their own standard.
But that would only really fly I suppose in areas where CAP is the true "primary" response agency.

mk

[CadetProgramGuy]

All FR ireally is advanced first aid with oxygen and blood pressure taking.
Not that hard, and only going to put CAP out of the LSAR game if we want to let it.

No not really.....  The First Responder is the same training that an EMT has with the exception of Patient movement and a couple of other things.  Other than that, FR's and EMT's have the same training, just shorter time requirements.

The National written and practicals are the same however.

[cap235629]

All FR ireally is advanced first aid with oxygen and blood pressure taking.
Not that hard, and only going to put CAP out of the LSAR game if we want to let it.

No not really.....  The First Responder is the same training that an EMT has with the exception of Patient movement and a couple of other things.  Other than that, FR's and EMT's have the same training, just shorter time requirements.

The National written and practicals are the same however.

HUH?

First responder curriculum is 40 hours, EMT is a minimum of 110 Hours.  Almost 3 times the classwork.  I have had both certifications as well as NREMT-I(another 110 hours) with advanced medication (Narcan, subQ epi, First line cardiac meds, Valium Intubation(adult and peds) manual defib etc.)adding an additional 70 hours.  All the training I have had has built upon the first level and is MUCH more involved the further you go.  First responder is advanced first aid and in SOME jurisdictions, O2. It is by no means the same and the practicals are similar but MUCH more involved as you go higher.

That being said, I am a firm believer that EVERY ground team member should take a DOT curriculum First Responder Course.  EXCELLENT training for the missions we perform.

[cap235629]

^ also, there is no "national" certification exam for First Responder, NREMT starts at EMT

[sarmed1]

I would disagree as well....First Responder is not an EMT-Light, like stated above the time frame is the difference....If you look at basic first aid course almost all of the topic headings are the same as EMT, or even paramedic for that matter, its about the volume of subject material, not just the same "headings".  I mean come on that would be like saying I have the same training as a doctor, just shorter.

Advanced First Aid plus is (as a paramedic and EMS educator) I feel more accurate than almost an EMT.....

cap235629:  search the NREMT web site, they do offer a First Responder certification.
http://www.nremt.org/EMTServices/reg_1st_history.asp

But I digress and drift

mk

[CadetProgramGuy]

All FR ireally is advanced first aid with oxygen and blood pressure taking.
Not that hard, and only going to put CAP out of the LSAR game if we want to let it.

No not really.....  The First Responder is the same training that an EMT has with the exception of Patient movement and a couple of other things.  Other than that, FR's and EMT's have the same training, just shorter time requirements.

The National written and practicals are the same however.

HUH?

First responder curriculum is 40 hours, EMT is a minimum of 110 Hours.  Almost 3 times the classwork.  I have had both certifications as well as NREMT-I(another 110 hours) with advanced medication (Narcan, subQ epi, First line cardiac meds, Valium Intubation(adult and peds) manual defib etc.)adding an additional 70 hours.  All the training I have had has built upon the first level and is MUCH more involved the further you go.  First responder is advanced first aid and in SOME jurisdictions, O2. It is by no means the same and the practicals are similar but MUCH more involved as you go higher.

That being said, I am a firm believer that EVERY ground team member should take a DOT curriculum First Responder Course.  EXCELLENT training for the missions we perform.

Hang on, I was not attacking, just clarifying.

Even though I am a recent NREMT, I have already been asked to help out as skills evaluator for both the FR and EMT classes.

Believe me when I tell you that what I saw, then asked questions over were this:

What are the differences between EMT and FR?

I was told only Ambulance work, patient transport, airway management.

Every thing else is the same, just have to learn at a faster pace.

I am headed off to Intermediate school this fall, and paramedic school next fall.