Should CAP members have BX privileges?

[CadetProgramGuy]

IF we had access to the PX, BX, or AAFES online, Vanguard would have alot of competition and just MAYBE get their act figured out.

BTW, I have access to AAFES online, being PS Army.  If you need anything, we can work out deals.

[SarDragon]

IF we had access to the PX, BX, or AAFES online, Vanguard would have alot of competition and just MAYBE get their act figured out.

BTW, I have access to AAFES online, being PS Army.  If you need anything, we can work out deals.

Why would Vanguard have competition? Most of the insignia related stuff I've seen in the exchanges and uniform shops comes right from there.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Uniforms mostly.

[skippytim]

I bought my Class C Dress Shirt at the local Coast Guard BX because they wear the same as the Air Force, and I got right on base with my CAP Photo ID and into the BX no problemo.

[SARMedTech]

Wow, that would suck for the COPS and State.  I would get a lawyer and make the case I was going to have a party, and was stocking up.  I think I would win.  PLUS, Inst that entrapment and illegal search and seizure.  Did they have a guy on the FEDERAL Army Post reporting back to law enforcement off post? 

PLUS, entrapment is the last thing it would be. Entrapment is defined as enticing or coercing someone to do something illegal that they would not otherwise have a proclivity to do for the purposes of causing them to violate the law and/or make an arrest.  Also, most state troopers, who frequently search vehicles, are aware of how to avoid illegal search and seizure. Would you want to explain why you had a case of Jack Daniels, no military ID and none of your bottles had tax stamps? Besides, anyone who has taken Constitutional Law 101 knows that there are only about a million ways to establish probable cause to search your vehicle and as a former criminal law paralegal, I can tell you that just about all of them will stand up in court.

[Gunner C]

That's illegal - there's tax evasion in there.  Since Bxs are on military installations, they're not subject to state sales tax.  At Ft Bragg, State Troopers used to watch for folks coming out of the Package Store.  They'd stop them just off post and go through their trunk.  If they had more than what they considered "personal use", they'd arrest them for trafficking untaxed booz.

Wow, that would suck for the COPS and State.  I would get a lawyer and make the case I was going to have a party, and was stocking up.  I think I would win.  PLUS, Inst that entrapment and illegal search and seizure.  Did they have a guy on the FEDERAL Army Post reporting back to law enforcement off post? 

Well, that was NC but you get the picture. 

But, Jimmy Carter (my "favorite" president [/sarcasm] issued an executive order directing all on-base services to be similarly priced with the surrounding community.  So the price/profit motive kinda is moot. 

Ummm.....until about 3 years ago booze and cigarettes were significantly cheaper than off post.  It was a DOD directive that said booze and cigarettes could only be 7 percent below off post prices. Prior to that a carton of Marlboro's cost 25 bucks, while off post it was in the 40 dollar range. 

Glad to see that the military is adhering, even surpassing, the intent of that idiot commander-in-chief. 

[O-Rex]

IF we had access to the PX, BX, or AAFES online, Vanguard would have alot of competition and just MAYBE get their act figured out.

Not really: Vanguard has pretty much gotten away from selling USAF-style clothing items.

[mikeylikey]

Wow, that would suck for the COPS and State.  I would get a lawyer and make the case I was going to have a party, and was stocking up.  I think I would win.  PLUS, Inst that entrapment and illegal search and seizure.  Did they have a guy on the FEDERAL Army Post reporting back to law enforcement off post? 

PLUS, entrapment is the last thing it would be. Entrapment is defined as enticing or coercing someone to do something illegal that they would not otherwise have a proclivity to do for the purposes of causing them to violate the law and/or make an arrest.  Also, most state troopers, who frequently search vehicles, are aware of how to avoid illegal search and seizure. Would you want to explain why you had a case of Jack Daniels, no military ID and none of your bottles had tax stamps? Besides, anyone who has taken Constitutional Law 101 knows that there are only about a million ways to establish probable cause to search your vehicle and as a former criminal law paralegal, I can tell you that just about all of them will stand up in court.

Sorry, all my legal training comes from watching JAG on Television (lawyers shooting terrorists and flying F-16's, gotta love it). 

I would have a military ID, and I would say I was hosting a party.  What could they possibly charge me with?  PLUS, it would be handled by the military courts if I am not mistaken.  Now.....a civilian, buying 300 cases of jack....thats a different story. 

PLUS, wouldn't trafficking untaxed alcohol fall under Federal law, not state. 

(Mikey is by no means a lawyer as is very apparent, but I can see injustice in pulling everyone over that happened to be a customer of the CLASS 6 on a particular day). 

[JohnKachenmeister]

The NC Troopers have a tough row to hoe proving that the liquor was intended for re-sale.  Simply buying more than an arbitrary amount considered "Personal use" does not prove intent to re-sell.  My son is getting married.  Holidays are coming and I have a lot of friends.  I only go to the class 6 once every 6 months.  I'm a drunk... got a problem with that, Trooper?

My guess is that the Troopers are focusing their efforts on:

1.  People buying large amounts of booze who also own liquor-licensed establishments.

2.  People who buy large amounts every week, although all this will do is trigger further investigation.

3.  People who cannot agree among the occupants of a vehicle what the liquor is for.  Which of the above explantions is the operative one?

[O-Rex]

I'm a drunk... got a problem with that, Trooper?

Only if you're behind the wheel......

Back to the subject at-hand: even the CGAUX, who can buy items other than mil clothing, are restricted from purchasing cigarettes and alcohol (b/t/w, they CG exchange extends the same priviliges to CAP as they do to it's own Aux.)

As for the BX, many folks who shop/have shopped there have given blood sweat and tears at nasty faraway places in the performance of their duties, and their families often do without on a number of different levels.  IMHO, in deference to them I wouldn't encroach on their entitlements if its not offered: the small savings just isn't be worth it for me.

[lordmonar]

As for the BX being a benifit for our (AD military) sacrfice.....I have got to say in the last 22 years I have seen that drain away.  As for letting CAP have full access....six of one and half dozen of the other.

I don't see it happening just because of buracracy...but I don't think anyone in the miliatry really cares that much about letting others in on the good deal....so long as it does not take away from us.

[flyerthom]

Pragmatically; with the exception of being on official duty like RSC, why would we even need it?

Desire (despite what pop culture implies) does not equate with necessity. Therefore I see little need to change from the current rules. Are we members of CAP for the perks, or for the higher good of our community?

[O-Rex]

As for the BX being a benifit for our (AD military) sacrfice.....I have got to say in the last 22 years I have seen that drain away.  As for letting CAP have full access....six of one and half dozen of the other.

I don't see it happening just because of buracracy...but I don't think anyone in the miliatry really cares that much about letting others in on the good deal....so long as it does not take away from us.

Unfortunately, we've shot ourselves in the foot more than once, and lost what was a good thing.

[RogueLeader]

Pragmatically; with the exception of being on official duty like RSC, why would we even need it?

Desire (despite what pop culture implies) does not equate with necessity. Therefore I see little need to change from the current rules. Are we members of CAP for the perks, or for the higher good of our community?

It's a nice bonus for our hard work.  We save the AF, and thus the millitary, a substancial ammount of money, and it is a way of saying thank you.

I don't know about you, but I am here for quite a number of reasons; although the perks are not high on the list, they are there. 

That being said, name me one place where letting CAP have regular and full access to the PB/BX would cause such a drain that the average military member would notice.  I would really like to know.

[RiverAux]

Given that the overwhelming majority of CAP members live so far from any AF base that they are unlikely to ever visit one except for encampment or a few other purposes, I don't see that it would make much difference.  A few dozens squadrons here and there that might have a couple of members that would put up with the hassle of going on base, and thats about it.   Doesn't seem really worth the hassle to set up a system to allow full CAP use. 

[JoeTomasone]

The only times I have ever really purchased from the BX was when I was a civilian contractor on base.   On one occasion I was killing time waiting for MCSS to open and just happened to find something I wanted.   On all occasions, I was never asked for any ID - it was like checking out at Wal-Mart.    Despite the signs requesting that you show ID when not in uniform, no one seemed to care.   This is at 3 or 4 bases now.   

I've also never been questioned when buying non-uniform items at MCSS, even when I *HAVE* been asked for ID.   

[PhoenixRisen]

The only times I have ever really purchased from the BX was when I was a civilian contractor on base.   On one occasion I was killing time waiting for MCSS to open and just happened to find something I wanted.   On all occasions, I was never asked for any ID - it was like checking out at Wal-Mart.    Despite the signs requesting that you show ID when not in uniform, no one seemed to care.   This is at 3 or 4 bases now.   

I've also never been questioned when buying non-uniform items at MCSS, even when I *HAVE* been asked for ID.

Not sure if it varies with the branch, but down here, they ask for your Mil ID at MCAS Miramar (both the BX and commissary).

Spacing - MIKE

[JoeTomasone]

Not sure if it varies with the branch, but down here, they ask for your Mil ID at MCAS Miramar (both the BX and commissary).

Beats me - these have been USAF bases in different parts of the US.   

[SAR-EMT1]

At Scott AFB (AMC/ Transcom) CAP members do not have access to the BX, pumps, or class 6 and the MCSS asks for our IDs at the register. However... the golf course, bowling alley, and O-Club greet us with open arms. (however, while we can use the golf course and bowling alley the fitness center doesnt allow us in)

I learned all this at SLS/CLC. I live an hour and a half from Scott and Im only down there for related events.

[JoeTomasone]

At Scott AFB (AMC/ Transcom) CAP members do not have access to the BX, pumps, or class 6 and the MCSS asks for our IDs at the register. However... the golf course, bowling alley, and O-Club greet us with open arms. (however, while we can use the golf course and bowling alley the fitness center doesnt allow us in)

Heh.  Scott was one of the bases I was talking about.  I spent a lot of time there in '06/'07 as a civ contractor.