Should CAP members have BX privileges?

Started by Stonewall, April 18, 2008, 06:12:12 PM

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Should CAP members be allowed to shop at AAFES?

Yes, everyone in CAP, all the time.
32 (34.4%)
All members, but only while performing official CAP duties (encampment, NSCASs, Prof Dev.)
8 (8.6%)
No, never, we'd abuse it and screw it up.
12 (12.9%)
BX while on official duty, MCSS 100% of the time, to include online.
41 (44.1%)

Total Members Voted: 93

Stonewall

This stems from the discussion about the Moody AFB BX.

I think CAP members should be allowed to shop at AAFES, but only while on orders and in uniform.  For example, while at encampment, region staff college, or national cadet special activities.  If we had full-time privileges, I think CAP would really screw the pooch.
Serving since 1987.

Stonewall

From the Moody thread:

Quote from: afgeo4 on April 18, 2008, 06:13:05 PM
And extra people spending money at the BX would be bad how? The AAFES depends on spending to run their operations. The more people spend their money there, the better off AAFES is.

I find it wrong funny that the local BX/PX will let the local PD shop, but not Civil Air Patrol.

Not that I have a habit of following the AAFES profit margin, but I'm quite sure they do just fine without a few thousand CAPers running around.

I can picture it now, the 15-person CAP family we used to have in DC Wing in the 90s strolling through Andrews AFB BX with 5 carts like kids in a candy store.  Then, loading up the CAP van to go sell all the stuff they bought at a 15% mark up.
Serving since 1987.

Maj Ballard

How about a choice for "BX while on official business; clothing sales anytime, including online"?
L. Ballard, Major, CAP

Stonewall

ADMIN:  Can you make it so we can change our votes?  Captain B made a good suggestion and I edited the options.
Serving since 1987.

afgeo4

Quote from: Stonewall on April 18, 2008, 06:17:37 PM
From the Moody thread:

Quote from: afgeo4 on April 18, 2008, 06:13:05 PM
And extra people spending money at the BX would be bad how? The AAFES depends on spending to run their operations. The more people spend their money there, the better off AAFES is.

I find it wrong funny that the local BX/PX will let the local PD shop, but not Civil Air Patrol.

Not that I have a habit of following the AAFES profit margin, but I'm quite sure they do just fine without a few thousand CAPers running around.

I can picture it now, the 15-person CAP family we used to have in DC Wing in the 90s strolling through Andrews AFB BX with 5 carts like kids in a candy store.  Then, loading up the CAP van to go sell all the stuff they bought at a 15% mark up.

Sir, have you been to a BX lately? It's not all that cheap! Certainly not when compared to a Wal-Mart. True, they sell at good discounts, but the things they sell are usually designer brands and thus aren't very inexpensive. The best thing about BX/PX is that they're convenient (if you're on base) and that they are tax-free.

I don't see too many young soldiers/airmen screwing things up and don't see how adult CAP members can screw it up either. As far as cadets go... they're no different than mil dependents. It's a store, after all, not an ICBM base.

As far as the comment above... we already have BX privileges while on orders and MCSS all other times and online isn't going to happen because we're not in DEERS.
GEORGE LURYE

MIKE

As an Auxie I'm authorized patronage at Coast Guard Exchanges and MWR... Even says so on the back of my ID card.  IIRC the only limitations placed on me are no tobacco and alcohol, but at AAFES or NEX it's uniform items only just like CAP is currently.

I think CAP and the Auxiliary should be able to shop at AAFES etc without being restricted to just uniforms, but then again I don't live close enough to a BX or CG Exchange to take advantage or abuse the privelage... Maybe if that extended to shopping online?  I appreciate being authorized shop online for uniforms through UDC as an Auxie.
Mike Johnston

Stonewall

Quote from: afgeo4 on April 18, 2008, 06:26:58 PM
Sir, have you been to a BX lately? It's not all that cheap! Certainly not when compared to a Wal-Mart. True, they sell at good discounts, but the things they sell are usually designer brands and thus aren't very inexpensive. The best thing about BX/PX is that they're convenient (if you're on base) and that they are tax-free.

I don't see too many young soldiers/airmen screwing things up and don't see how adult CAP members can screw it up either. As far as cadets go... they're no different than mil dependents. It's a store, after all, not an ICBM base.

Yes, I go to and shop at a BX all the time, weekly in fact.  I can think of several things off the top of my head that you are better off getting at the BX/PX/NEX:

North Face and Columbia clothing.  Generally 20 to 30% cheaper than anywhere else and NO TAX.

Computers:  We comparison shopped and found our computer at the exchange for be about $75 cheaper than anywhere else, not including the whole non-tax thing.

Baby stuff:  hands down.

Liquor, beer and wine:  BX prices can't be beat.

Haircut:  $5 cheaper than Hair Cuttery

Anything else?  Sure, there are some things that blow my mind at the BX, like a 20 oz bottle of pepsi costing $1.29 (just saw it yesterday), but I don't go there for pepsi, I go to the commisary where groceries are really really cheap.

In my mind, it's about earning the right.  CAP is a good place to volunteer and serve, but it doesn't compare to serving in the military, thus the privilege should have restrictions.  I don't know about your local BX, but law enforcement is not allowed to shop at ours unless they're on base training with the government or military; just like CAP.  Only Active, Guard, Reserves, retirees and foreign military.

Hey, don't get angry, just my opinion on the matter.  Doesn't make a difference one way or the other.
Serving since 1987.

SAR-EMT1

Quote from: MIKE on April 18, 2008, 06:32:26 PM
As an Auxie I'm authorized patronage at Coast Guard Exchanges and MWR... Even says so on the back of my ID card.  IIRC the only limitations placed on me are no tobacco and alcohol, but at AAFES or NEX it's uniform items only just like CAP is currently.

I think CAP and the Auxiliary should be able to shop at AAFES etc without being restricted to just uniforms, but then again I don't live close enough to a BX or CG Exchange to take advantage or abuse the privelage... Maybe if that extended to shopping online?  I appreciate being authorized shop online for uniforms through UDC as an Auxie.

For the local CG Aux the CG privilige was extended to the BX at the State NG HQ and NTC Great Lakes - due to the fact that the nearest CG BX is like two days drive.
However, the Air Force BX at Scott AFB is still off limits.
C. A. Edgar
AUX USCG Flotilla 8-8
Former CC / GLR-IL-328
Firefighter, Paramedic, Grad Student

Stonewall

FWIW:  DOD Civilian employees who work on military bases, for the military, sometimes doing the exact same job as a military member don't get BX privileges either.  Under certain circumstances, like being assigned to a military base overseas, but pretty much no benefits in the US.
Serving since 1987.

lordmonar

The base commander already has the authorisation to allow CAP personnel to use the BX facilities during things like encampments and such. 

Just add that to the check list of things to coordinate when planning an encampment at a military base.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

JohnKachenmeister

I don't see a probelm with allowing BX shopping for CAP members.  The units at the base benefit, AAFES benefits, and it is a nice "gimme" for CAP service in lieu of pay.

The only probelm is that initially, the lines at the checkout might be longer, but I'm not sure there are enough CAP members to matter that much, and after they see that the prices are not all that much better, the lines will get shorter.

We should have Class 6 privileges, too, though.
Another former CAP officer

mikeylikey

Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on April 18, 2008, 07:31:46 PM
We should have Class 6 privileges, too, though.

Agreed! 

As far as the Walmart or other big boxes being cheaper than the exchange, if you bring in the advertisements showing the exchange is not cheaper they will give you the lower price, and some may actually give it to you without the ad. 

Also, installation commanders can authorize use during events like Encampment, but the rules are still there restricting purchases to uniforms or sundry items.

If anything, I would rather get on line access for CAP members to buy uniforms than anything else.  That would be a better benefit for the majority of members. 

Now on a different subject, should we also get access to the AAFES GAS Station??  They are exchange activities also! 

   
What's up monkeys?

JoeTomasone

Quote from: lordmonar on April 18, 2008, 07:27:59 PM
The base commander already has the authorisation to allow CAP personnel to use the BX facilities during things like encampments and such. 


Sadly, it doesn't matter if he authorizes it or not since CAP regs prohibit our taking him up on it.

I think the following would be fair:


MCSS: Anytime, including online.

BX:

1.  When staying overnight, even when not occupying quarters (like when we camp out on an AFB for an airshow or similar activity) - or when staying nearby off-base for an on-base multi-day activity - but not when withing reasonable driving distance from home.

2.  When on base, in uniform, for CAP business; but only for incidentals - a bottle of soda, a candy bar, a notebook, pens, etc.    The items should have a CAP use on base and not be items for personal use off-base - so housewares and the like would be off-limits.   If grocery-type items are needed for a CAP activity (say paper plates, 2 liter soda, etc for feeding cadets and staff at a bivouac on base), then written authorization should be secured from the CAP event commander and presented to the BX staff.  The Commander would be accountable to the Wing Commander in case it is ever questioned. 

3.  When otherwise authorized by both the Base Commander and the Wing Commander in whatever manner they proscribe.


Other services, such as fast food restaurants and gas:  When on base for CAP business in uniform.


Pylon

Quote from: Stonewall on April 18, 2008, 06:26:13 PM
ADMIN:  Can you make it so we can change our votes?  Captain B made a good suggestion and I edited the options.

Done.
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

JohnKachenmeister

Joe:

Our regs are extracted from AAFES regs.  If AAFES regs change, ours will too.
Another former CAP officer

mikeylikey

Quote from: JoeTomasone on April 18, 2008, 08:45:17 PM
Other services, such as fast food restaurants and gas:  When on base for CAP business in uniform.

The BK and other fast food shops on POST/BASE are open to anyone (CAC or no CAC). 

GAS was a good benefit from AAFES about 5 years ago, but now there is only a 12 to 18 cent difference between AAFES GAS and off post gas. 

Perhaps those that are working the VSAF program should get full exchange benefits!  I would like to see it start there first!  Nothing better than paying 3 bucks to see a new movie or getting a case of PBR beer for like 5 bucks! 

What else would be nice would be to get billeting for our members if they are traveling outside of CAP activities.  IF Space is available, let them stay on post/ base. 
What's up monkeys?

Smokey

I might be in violation in the strictest terms but...
I've used the BX for haircuts, small items (cokes, candy, etc), meals at the food court and the gas station without any  difficulty. They ask for ID and I show my CAP ID.  As for gas...it's not really cheaper, but I travel 92 miles to get to the base and main base is about 20 miles from the nearest gas station. I routinely fill up before heading back home. Plus once again, the nearest place to eat, get  snacks, etc is 20 miles away. The haircuts are cheap and fast..and they sure know how to do a military cut.

Some of my times there are not CAP directly related....I fly at the Aero Club and if I couldn't eat, get drinks, etc it would make for a long and uncomfortable day.
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
To err is human, to blame someone else shows good management skills.

mikeylikey

Quote from: Smokey on April 18, 2008, 11:35:34 PM
I fly at the Aero Club and if I couldn't eat, get drinks, etc it would make for a long and uncomfortable day.

The aero club on base?  If so, were you able to join because you were a CAP member?  Some Aero Clubs are pretty restrictive, while others actually advertise to CAP pilots. 
What's up monkeys?

Smokey

#18
The aero club is on base....and if I'm not mistaken, all AF Aero clubs are open to CAP by AF regs.


BTW...last time I was on base about 3 weeks ago, there was a sign on the BX that said civilians were welcome.  The base has a large number of civilians and contractors, but I didn't have time to check into the details.
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
To err is human, to blame someone else shows good management skills.

Smokey

Here is the eligability info.....from AFMAN 34-232
1.1.3. In addition to the authorized persons specified in AFI 34-201, Services Programs and Use Eligibility,
the following individuals are authorized membership:
• Individuals authorized Veterans Administration (VA) Flight Training Benefits, for the period
they are enrolled in a VA approved flight training course provided local VA flight training
facilities are unavailable.
Civil Air Patrol members.
• Flight instructors and mechanics on contract with the aero club.


Prices aren't bad either....the wet rate for a C-172SP is $86/Hr and with the G1000 (Glass Panel) is $95/Hr
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
To err is human, to blame someone else shows good management skills.