Blue Flight Jacket with CAP Aviator Shirt/Distinctive Uniform

[RF273]

Hi - just looking for some clarification.... Can the CAP Blue Flight Jacket (with all the patches, insignia, etc.) be worn as outerwear with the CAP Aviator Shirt Uniform?

Thanks!

[Mac]

Thats a very good question. My understanding was that flight jackets (CAP Blue or AF Green) may only be worn with flight clothing (IE. flight suits or CAP Utility uniform). However the CAP distinctive uniforms all say that any appropriate civilian outergarment may be worn. I found this in 39-1 during my search:

4-1. General. Cadet members are authorized to wear the CAP utility uniform, field uniform, and blazer combinations as desired. All senior members, including those who do not meet the standards of wear for an Air Force style uniform for reasons of grooming or weight standards, may wear any of the CAP distinctive uniform combinations described in this chapter. Uniforms must be clean, neat and correct in design and specification, fitted properly, pressed, and in good condition (that is not frayed, worn out, torn, faded, patched, and so forth). Uniform items are to be kept zipped, snapped, or buttoned. Shoes are to be shined and in good repair. Metallic insignia, badges and other devices, must also be maintained in the proper luster and condition. Appropriate civilian outerwear is authorized with these combinations including the light blue windbreaker with the CAP seal embroidered on the right breast and the dark blue flight jacket.

So I think you should be able to wear it with the aviator shirt.

[capchiro]

Now that we have ascertained that the blue flight jacket can be worn with CAP distinctive uniforms, Can we wear the military sage flight jacket and/or the leather Air Force flight jacket with CAP distinctive uniforms?  I know we can't wear the leather Air Force flight jacket with Air Force uniforms, but one can purchase the sage and/or the leather flight jackets on the civilian market, so does that make it acceptable as civilian outerwear?     

[SarDragon]

Given the general military policy of not mixing uniform items with civilian clothes and the specific prohibition on wearing leather jackets with the AF style, I would recommend not wasting your money trying to be a wanna-be. As for the sage green jackets, I might consider being a little looser with the rules, but the same basic principle still applies. I wear one of the old nylon jackets with my corporate uniforms when I'm around the squadron, but not where I'm subject to higher scrutiny.

[Mac]

There is plenty reply on the Knowledgebase about wearing a leather A-2 flight jacket with the CAP corporate uniforms.

Question
  Can the A2 leather flight jacket be worn with the CAP golf shirt and grey pants? If so, can it be worn with or without patches?

  Answer
  Yes, appropriate civilian outerwear such as the leather flight jacket is authorized with the Golf Shirt Uniform and other CAP uniform combinations (not AF style uniforms). Depending on the patches, some might be appropriate while others would not be. The leather flight jacket or other outergarments must be clearly distinguishable as a civilian outergarment and not a uniform item. See guidance below from CAPP 151 on wearing distinctive uniform items on civilian clothes.

CAP Pamphlet 151 (E) STANDARDS, CUSTOMS AND COURTESIES restricts CAP members to wearing only authorized uniform combinations and prohibits mixing uniform items or wearing distinctive uniform items with civilian clothes. Distinctive uniform items are those items that are unique to the uniform. They include grade insignia, ribbons, cap devices, and buttons with Civil Air Patrol coat of arms. Neither should CAP distinctive items such as nameplates or grade insignia be displayed on personal property such as a bag or notebook. Certain CAP symbols, available through CAPMart, are authorized for display on personal property.

This was also pretty much the answer I got from national about wearing the CAP Blue Flight jacket with the aviator or golf shirt combination. Table 4-5 and 4-6 both state the following

Table 4-5. Men's and Women's CAP Blue Flight Suit and Blue Flight Jacket Outergarments Any civilian outergarment may be worn including the blue flight jacket.

Table 4-6. Men's and Women's CAP Utility Uniform Outergarments Since the utility uniform is uniquely CAP and is not a USAF clothing item, any type cold weather outergarment may be worn including the blue flight jacket.

While Table 4-3 and 4-3 state the following:

Table 4-3. Men's and Women's Aviator Shirt with Epaulets Uniform Outergarments Appropriate civilian outerwear is authorized including the light blue windbreaker with the CAP seal on the right breast or the Air Force cardigan sweater. When wearing the AF sweater the wing patch is not worn and a tie/floppy bow is optional. Sweater may be worn indoors or outdoors. When worn indoors, it may be worn opened or buttoned. When worn outdoors it must be buttoned. Headgear is not required but a CAP baseball cap may be worn.

Table 4-4. Men's and Women's Golf Shirt/Summer Uniform Outergarments Appropriate civilian outerwear is authorized including the light blue windbreaker with the CAP seal on the right breast. Headgear is not required but the CAP baseball cap may be worn.

The intent is that you may wear any civilian outergarment with these uniforms or you may wear the CAP blue flight jacket with all patched and insignia with corporate flight clothing or the CAP blue windbreaker with the aviator / golf shirt combinations.

I guess I stand corrected. But, then it's all up to interpretation of the easy to read and follow CAPM 39-1.

[capchiro]

Where do we find the CAP Knowledgebase?  I am sure that I have overlooked it somewhere...Help?

[Mac]

There is a link on the left hand side of the screen after you log into E-services. or if you just go to cap.gov under "QUICK INFO" its at the bottom.

CAP Knowledgebase

[westernflyer]

If you're looking to buy a blue flight jacket to match your CAP blue flight suit, be careful what you order. The CAP flight suit from Vanguard is in a very dark navy blue color. It is so dark, in a dimly lit room, you might have trouble deciding if it is blue or black. If you order a jacket advertised as navy blue, the blue you end up with looks like it has been mixed with a generous helping of battleship gray. It's nothing like the blue of the flight suit, and doesn't look so good. The color jacket you want is called "replica blue" or "rep blue". Alpha makes a MA-1 flight jacket in replica blue. Simply google "MA-1 replica blue" and you should find many order options on line. I just bought one and paid in the low $60 range.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

There's loads of the "replica blue" (or "vintage blue") ones on Evilbay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=400085476798

[Hawk200]

There's loads of the "replica blue" (or "vintage blue") ones on Evilbay:

OK, I keep seeing it: What's with the "Evilbay" crap?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

There's loads of the "replica blue" (or "vintage blue") ones on Evilbay:

OK, I keep seeing it: What's with the "Evilbay" crap?

It's sometimes used as a slang term for EBAY on some of the aircraft modelling sites I frequent, partly because of their often-inconsistent policies and partly because of my slightly-skewed wryly humorous take on life in general.

Nothing more, nothing less, although there is a very weird site actually called "Evilbay" that has some artwork that I just don't get the meaning of.

But that doesn't mean I don't use EBAY, or obviously I wouldn't have provided the link to the blue flight jacket.

[Hawk200]

It's sometimes used as a slang term for EBAY on some of the aircraft modelling sites I frequent, partly because of their often-inconsistent policies and partly because of my slightly-skewed wryly humorous take on life in general.

Nothing more, nothing less, although there is a very weird site actually called "Evilbay" that has some artwork that I just don't get the meaning of.

But that doesn't mean I don't use EBAY, or obviously I wouldn't have provided the link to the blue flight jacket.

Understood now. Nobody likes being on the outside of an inside joke.

[MSgt Van]

So if I can wear the dark blue flight jacket with polo/gray slacks why in the heck did I buy the black leather jacket? 

[ColonelJack]

So if I can wear the dark blue flight jacket with polo/gray slacks why in the heck did I buy the black leather jacket? 

Because it looks really, really cool?

Jack

[Pumbaa]

...why in the heck did I buy the black leather jacket? 

Chicks dig it!

[MSgt Van]

While placing my order at a BK during our recent ARCHER flood missions in ND the counter gal was gaga over that [darn] jacket. I gave her my command patch (it was the now-obsolete "USAF Auxilliary CAP HWSRN wait a minute let's change it again"  patch).

Oops. Sorry about the "darn"...

[Mustang]

The color jacket you want is called "replica blue" or "rep blue". Alpha makes a MA-1 flight jacket in replica blue. Simply google "MA-1 replica blue" and you should find many order options on line. I just bought one and paid in the low $60 range.

Alpha also makes a CWU-45-style jacket in replica blue.  Might as well go with the modern style, since the MA-1 hasn't been military issue since the 1970s.

[smg id=141]

[Gunner C]

The CWU-45 is much better looking.  The MA-1 is just butt-ugly.  The cut of it makes even the most fit person look like a bowling pin.  I don't know if it's the knit collar or what, but it just isn't a good looking uniform accessory IMO.  YMMV

[MSgt Van]

I agree the the CWU-45 is better looking, but didn't we (captalk) determine that 39-1 doesn't address use of this jacket in blue? The pics show the old style jacket when calling out the CAP dark blue jacket.  I'm all for wearing the CWU-45 instead of the A-1. I'd toss this leather thing on the ebay pile in a minute. It's a good jacket, but I much prefer my AF CWU-45 style jacket.

[Mustang]

I agree the the CWU-45 is better looking, but didn't we (captalk) determine that 39-1 doesn't address use of this jacket in blue? The pics show the old style jacket when calling out the CAP dark blue jacket.

It doesn't specify anything beyond "blue flight jacket", which is plenty of wiggle room as far as I'm concerned.   If they want to pull a "but that's not the style depicted", I'd say, "well neither is the utility uniform that Vanguard sells."   Beyond that, there's nothing that says I can't put CAP patches and even rank insignia on my " blue civilian flight-looking jacket".

[Eclipse]

I wouldn't think twice about it - if you're inclined to spend the money, go for it.

[Custer]

Given the general military policy of not mixing uniform items with civilian clothes and the specific prohibition on wearing leather jackets with the AF style, I would recommend not wasting your money trying to be a wanna-be. As for the sage green jackets, I might consider being a little looser with the rules, but the same basic principle still applies. I wear one of the old nylon jackets with my corporate uniforms when I'm around the squadron, but not where I'm subject to higher scrutiny.

The squadron I was at last night (rejoining CAP after a 24 year break) were all wearing sage green MA1 jackets (with full insignia) with polo shirts.  But I will also add this, its the first time I have ever seen any CAP unit all dressed the same way.

[Al Sayre]

So they were uniformly out of uniform? 

[heliodoc]

Hey Custer

Welcome back to CAP!!!...I came back after 25 yrs back in 2005

Welcome to CAPTalk..where they go a MILE a MINUTE over uniform wear such as you are describing.

The re are some CAP uniform Kommandos here that you will meet......eerrrr communicate via keyboard about ALLLLL those nasty CAP infractions

Standby for your Sqdn's dressing down via the Internets...they are comin after you and your uniformly out of uniform compadres!!!

Keep your heads low and yer powder dry....its coming.......the uniform police will be knocking at your Sqdn door...SOON

Gotta go........ the Kommandos may be tracing me via the Internets for welcoming you and your sorts back!!!

[lordmonar]

Hey Custer.

Ignore heliodoc.  He says he does not like all the CAPTALK discussions about uniforms...but he spends a lot of time on the uniform threads.

And yes....your squadron is uniformily out of uniform.

Such is life. 

[heliodoc]

See Custer

What did I tell you?  I may spend alot of time in the uniform threads.  You know why??  "cuz folk here are SOOOOO enthralled by the wear of a USAF uniform.  Some or most of us here have spent time in the REAL Military and know how to wear a uniform and wear it correctly.  BUT wait a minute.... CAPTalkers here KNOW everything about uniform wear  and are REALLLLLY good at it.  You WILL notice by the number of threads talking, thinking, dreaming, about......UNIFORMS

So standby ........Looooookee at the thread count in the Aerospace ED and Aviation side of CAP........ not nearly the thread count for an organization with the word AIR in its name.  You'd think there would be more discussion about that subject, now wouldn't you??

You decide for yourself

You will also notice the posters numbers on the left.  Those numbers reflect commentary on nearly everything!!

I am primarily here for the humor in seeing how CAP members can go way off track derailing threads about uniforms

Have fun , Custer.  Do not know where you humor level is.... there is a couple  ........tdepp is one and he's a practical thinkin lawyer!!

Hope to see your commentary!!

[Hawk200]

See Custer

What did I tell you?  I may spend alot of time in the uniform threads.  You know why??  "cuz folk here are SOOOOO enthralled by the wear of a USAF uniform.  Some or most of us here have spent time in the REAL Military and know how to wear a uniform and wear it correctly.  BUT wait a minute.... CAPTalkers here KNOW everything about uniform wear  and are REALLLLLY good at it.  You WILL notice by the number of threads talking, thinking, dreaming, about......UNIFORMS

So standby ........Looooookee at the thread count in the Aerospace ED and Aviation side of CAP........ not nearly the thread count for an organization with the word AIR in its name.  You'd think there would be more discussion about that subject, now wouldn't you??

You decide for yourself

You will also notice the posters numbers on the left.  Those numbers reflect commentary on nearly everything!!

I am primarily here for the humor in seeing how CAP members can go way off track derailing threads about uniforms

Have fun , Custer.  Do not know where you humor level is.... there is a couple  ........tdepp is one and he's a practical thinkin lawyer!!

Hope to see your commentary!!

That's just sad.

[Short Field]

Gotta go........ the Kommandos may be tracing me via the Internets for welcoming you and your sorts back!!!

Paranoid??

[Custer]

See Custer

Hope to see your commentary!!

OK

I spent two years in an Air Cav unit as one of 8 Commissioned officers stuck in there with 28 flying warrants.  You may have been one of them for all I know.

MA-1's were all the rage.  Not for me though, I was a ground cavalry officer who got assigned there by mistake.  I ended up retiring out of the reserves as my active career never recovered from that mis-assignment.

Anyway, as far as uniforms go all I seem to need to be in CAP today is one each $22 screen printed blue polo shirt.  Fine by me.  Seems in this unit thats all I ever need to get.  Anything else I buy would probably be in the process of being phased out by the time UPS got it here anyway.

[Custer]

So they were uniformly out of uniform? 

Apparently thats a very common uniform combination, authorized or not.

[heliodoc]

^^^
Negative Sir

Love to have been a Warrant....life got in the way...

I retired in 2004 as a US ARNG helo mech E6 and the last 10 of 21 years as an TI (Tech Inspector) and spent the last 4 of 22 as a Dual Status WG10 series mechanic, servicing your fave aircraft UH1 series, UH60 series, OH58 series, and a few C12 when some civilian contractors needed an assist

Ground Cav , huh?  which unit?

Anyway welcome to the fray, Sir! 

[Eclipse]

Anyway, as far as uniforms go all I seem to need to be in CAP today is one each $22 screen printed blue polo shirt.

What do you intend to actually do in CAP?

[JC004]

...
Anyway, as far as uniforms go all I seem to need to be in CAP today is one each $22 screen printed blue polo shirt.  Fine by me.  Seems in this unit thats all I ever need to get.  Anything else I buy would probably be in the process of being phased out by the time UPS got it here anyway.

Try getting one with a centered seal.  The shirts I got from Vanguard had the seal WAY off the center of the pocket.   

[Mustang]

Try getting one with a centered seal.  The shirts I got from Vanguard had the seal WAY off the center of the pocket.   

Be sure to let your chain of command know this.  The quality of Vanguard's merchandise has been slipping across the board, while their prices continue to rise.  If nobody complains, these issues will never be raised.

[Custer]

Anyway, as far as uniforms go all I seem to need to be in CAP today is one each $22 screen printed blue polo shirt.

What do you intend to actually do in CAP?

I was a mission observer back in the early 80's.  The unit I checked out is almost all pilots with no observers so I think I'll be doing that again.

Having actually served a few years in a military air unit, I do know what Nomex is actually for, and wearing that in a Cessna seems on a par with the guy flying the Dehaviland Otter at lake Perris insisting he have an ejection seat parachute in case he had to bail out of a turboprop.

If they insist I get a sage green flight suit I will, but I'm guessing they fly in that same outfit.  I could be pleasantly surprised and find out that they won't wear nylon jackets in an aircraft and thats why they thev been relegated to being worn over polo shirts for regular meetings...... but I kind of doubt it.

[Custer]

Try getting one with a centered seal.  The shirts I got from Vanguard had the seal WAY off the center of the pocket.   

I'm not sure how to do that as I won't see the product before it gets here.  And as been pointed out, there is no alternate source.

[SarDragon]

Try getting one with a centered seal.  The shirts I got from Vanguard had the seal WAY off the center of the pocket.   

I'm not sure how to do that as I won't see the product before it gets here.  And as been pointed out, there is no alternate source.

Send it back, and tell them it's defective. That worked for me.