Civil Air Patrol will present colors at Obama town hall

[wingnut]

Civil Air Patrol will present colors at Obama town hall

BY ASHLEY HALL & FARIS TANYOS

March 20, 2008

http://www.kdrv.com/article.aspx?id=25366


MEDFORD, Ore. -- The Medford Civil Air Patrol Cadets will present the colors at the Barack Obama's Stand For Change Town Hall event Saturday.

One of the cadets, a 15-year-old, took the initiative to request the job of presenting the colors at tomorrows event. All the cadet's say they were surprised and excited when they were chosen for the role.

The Civil Air Patrol is a community-service group that also teaches teens about aerospace engineering, search and rescue, and military skills. About 25 kids aged 12 and 18 are involved in the local civil air patrol.



Oh gee

A cadet requested this and it was approved, the question

"is this considered a POLITICAL EVENT? if so would it appear that we are  (CAP) endorsing Senator  Barack Hussein Obama?

[KFreeman]

Wingnut,

I would say that it is absolutely a political event.

It will have the appearance of a political endorsement.

Someone is not thinking (or are they?).

Regards,
Ken

[wingnut]

From National
Knowledge bank.

Question:
Are CAP members allowed to participate in partisan political activities while in CAP uniform?

Answer
No. Wearing the CAP uniform may imply official sanction of the political activity.  See rules below for prohibitions on wearing the uniform during political activities, private employment, or furthering commercial interests.


See CAPM 39-1 CAP Uniform Manual  
Table 1-1. Wearing the Uniform
Do not wear the uniform when participating in activities such as public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies, or in any public demonstration not approved by the Air Force. Wearing the uniform may imply sanction of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted.
Do not wear the uniform when furthering private employment or commercial interests, if official sponsorship might be inferred.
Do not wear the uniform when engaged in private employment.
Do not wear the uniform under any circumstance that would tend to bring discredit or reproach upon the uniform.

Also AFI 36-2903 DRESS AND PERSONAL APPEARANCE OF AIR FORCE PERSONNEL              
Table 1.3. Wearing the Uniform (see notes).
Do not wear the uniform when furthering political activities, private employment, or commercial interests.

I support the Democratic process, But this stunt could Hurt CAP more than Help us!! I say 2b the Cadet squadron Commander, and to the Cadets; to the Gulag!

I await your Intelligent reply

[♠SARKID♠]

Ooh, uniformed cadets at a political rally... I sense a disturbance in the force.

[wingnut]

Yes Glasshoppa

You will see nothing, you will say nothing, you will hear nothing

The Darkside


Vader Fan
mitchell 1971

[NIN]

IIRC, didn't CAP cadets present the colors at the RNC a bunch of years ago?

[wingnut]

Oh yes, but that was not a political event. Besides they won, so it is Ok if the party wins??

my point is it should ever be ALLOWED

[LtCol White]

Oh yes, but that was not a political event. Besides they won, so it is Ok if the party wins??

my point is it should ever be ALLOWED

I have to agree. Its not appropriate and violates not only CAP Regulation but USAF Regulation as well.

I would hope that someone who knows personnel at this unit will advise them not to do this.

[CAP_truth]

I wonder if the wing commander approved this type of activity.

[mikeylikey]

Didn't the DoD just come out and say military members can not be seen at political events standing behind any the candidates? 

As far as CAP goes, this should be scrubbed.  It gives the impression that the local unit backs Obama.

[Hawk200]

Biggest problem is that it's probably too late now.

[CAP_truth]

I see a squadron commanders job becoming available in the very near future.

[Pylon]

More importantly - Hey look!  We're a community service group (watch out Americorps) who teaches teens aerospace engineering (step aside, Embry Riddle!) and search and rescue (must've missed that section in the CAPR 52-16)...

[DNall]

I guess when you can't get the real military to support you, call CAP! 

Oh crap, was that a political statement? Oh, never mind, I'm not in uniform.

[NIN]

The college I work at, by sheer dint of our location in the "first in the nation" primary state and a really, really well connected political science faculty member, has a LOT of the candidates come thru for events and townhalls in the run up to the primary.  John Edwards was our commencement speaker last year, for example.

Nearly a year ago (April 24, 07) Rudy Giuliani  held a "Townhall" at our campus that was VERY well attended.



(I'm way in the back, behind the crowd in the doorway under the Rudy banner, checking out the circus. My boss is the guy in the front row under the left side of the American flag..)

Note the fellows in the front row?  There were 3-4 guys there in uniform.  At least one was a student who is also a reservist.

During the Q&A period, an ACU-clad Army National Guard E-7 standing about 3 ft in front of where I was managed to get the microphone.  He started his question with the statement "I'm very honored to be addressing my next commander-in-chief.." with every TV camera and still photographer's lens pointed right directed at HIM, recording his every word.

I just shook my head.

Afterwards, I stopped him in the hallway of the student center, and thats when I noticed he was an E-7.  (the kid who is our student, he's an E-2.  I could almost accept an E-2 blowing this one. But an E-7?)

"Excuse me, Sergeant, but did the DoD recently relax the rules about uniformed service members participating in political events?"

He looked at me and put haircut and bearing together.  "Uhhhh, I, uh, I'm not aware of any such restriction... Sir.."

"Sergeant, I expect that response out of a PV2, but you're going to tell me that you, a full-time recruiter for the Army National Guard, a senior NCO who's been to PLDC, BNCOC and ANCOC, doesn't know the DoD-wide rules about this?"

"Uh, no sir, I didn't know there was any kind of a rule about this."

"Hey, sergeant,  I'm not here to bust your chops. Honest. But before CNN puts your wonderfully put statement into heavy rotation this afternoon, you might want to give your sergeant major a heads up, just in case.  Otherwise, some bored colonel down at the Pentagon is going to be flipping channels, catch that video, and you'll be wondering why you're re-ordering business cards that say 'Staff Sergeant' on them..."

He took off for his recruiting post, and I never did see that video (although CSPAN might have had it for all I know), but I was utterly dumbfounded that an E-7 would whip out that kind of a dipstick, mealy-mouthed response and not know the rules.  Some sham-shield, sure. I was one, I know the drill.  But an E-7?

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I had the whole "thou shalt not wear the uniform to..." thing drilled into my noggin' about 150,000 times WIWAC, and again as a young soldier in BCT.   So either they're not teaching the basics in basic training these days, or someone just got a little froggy.

[Maj Ballard]

Isn't "mynetdude" from this forum in that squadron?

[Major Carrales]

My initial reaction was...

"If they are there to present the colors, and do nothing in the way of participating in the activities otherwise (such as speaking in endorsement of a candidate or the like) I think it would be more of a matter.

Posting the colors at a public gathering...OK in my book."

But, after two years in command of a Squadron, my final judgement is...

"It is better to err on the side of good judgement and, rather than dance around the regulation, refrain from controversy by not posting the colors this occasion."

However, if Mr Obama should win, there is no issue for posting the Colors for an elected official.  I would hold the same for a John McCain or Hillary Clinton rally.

[LtCol White]

Biggest problem is that it's probably too late now.

Its never too late. "I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that we weren't allowed do this when we set it up."

[Maj Ballard]

It's too late because the meeting has already occurred.

[LtCol White]

It's too late because the meeting has already occurred.

Well, in that case I have to agree with you. LOL