question on Officer's garrison cap

[2LTFrankP]

Can someone tell me which is the right garrison cap for officers.  I found 2 types at the  uniform clothing store yesterday ., one had nothing on the visor and the other one had silver emblem on the visor. I asked an airforce capt that was there but he couldn't answer the question

[Matt]

wow, that scares me... (the Captain not knowing)

The plain visor would be for all company grade officers.  After attaining the rank of Major (Field Grade Officer), you are required to wear the brim with the silver on it.  The brim should have "2 clouds and lightening for Field Grade Officers and 3 clouds and lightening for General Officers" according to 39-1.

The cadet officers, no matter what (Company Grade or Field Grade) wear the plain visor.

Matt

[2LTFrankP]

thank you very much. i guess i bought the right cap then

[md132]

The correct term for the cap is service cap not garrision cap.  That term was used for a cap that the army used before this year for their service uniforms.  USAF wears flight caps and service caps.

[shorning]

wow, that scares me... (the Captain not knowing)

Not that strange.  Those hats are no longer required in the Air Force.  I haven't worn one since I was on honor guard as a SrA.  I highly doubt the captain has ever worn one or had a need to know the difference.

The brim should have "2 clouds and lightening for Field Grade Officers and 3 clouds and lightening for General Officers" according to 39-1.

You mean the "farts and darts"?

[PhoenixRisen]

Is the service cap only allowed to be worn with the class 'A' Blues, or are you allowed to wear it as a replacement for the garrison cap on the class 'B' and 'C' Blues uniforms(and i'm talking Cadet Officer wise, not SM Officer)

[JaL5597]

Is the service cap only allowed to be worn with the class 'A' Blues, or are you allowed to wear it as a replacement for the garrison cap on the class 'B' and 'C' Blues uniforms(and i'm talking Cadet Officer wise, not SM Officer)

A, B and C are Army terms. 

For cadet officers the wear of the service cap is a wing level decision.  I have seen it with the service uniform as well as service dress.  But that may just be the places I have been.

[Major_Chuck]

A buddy of mine at Langley AFB was with me when I was picking up some uniform items and I mentioned that at somepoint I needed to get a new service cap.  Knowing that I am a CAP field grade officer he came back with two of them and a bewildered look on his face.

"What's the difference in these he asked?"  One is for a general officer and the other is for major to colonel. I answered back.

Moral of story...there are different flight caps for USAF officers in the Military Clothing Sales stores.  Flight cap silver braid is larger than a normal officers.

[md132]

Is the service cap only allowed to be worn with the class 'A' Blues, or are you allowed to wear it as a replacement for the garrison cap on the class 'B' and 'C' Blues uniforms(and i'm talking Cadet Officer wise, not SM Officer)

It is a decision by your wing commander.  He or she may allow it or not.  If your wing commander authorized it then it can be worn with service blues and service dress uniforms.  Also the terms Class A, B, C and garrison cap are Army terms only. 

[PhoenixRisen]

Is the service cap only allowed to be worn with the class 'A' Blues, or are you allowed to wear it as a replacement for the garrison cap on the class 'B' and 'C' Blues uniforms(and i'm talking Cadet Officer wise, not SM Officer)

A, B and C are Army terms. 

Funny... 'cause those are the terms that we use at my squadron.

[SarDragon]

Is the service cap only allowed to be worn with the class 'A' Blues, or are you allowed to wear it as a replacement for the garrison cap on the class 'B' and 'C' Blues uniforms(and i'm talking Cadet Officer wise, not SM Officer)

A, B and C are Army terms. 

Funny... 'cause those are the terms that we use at my squadron.

Guess what? Y'all are, and have been, using the wrong terms, probably perpetuated by folks who don't care to change their thinking. It's another case of "That's the way I learned it" or "We've always done it that way" that people refuse to change. I know some of the seniors in your unit, and I can probably figure out exactly who perpetuates this nonsense.

[BillB]

I think you'll keep hearing Class A and class B uniforms for quite awhile. It may no longer be correct, but everyone understands what A & B mean.  Service dress means little to a cadet, or most seniors for that matter.  When you tell a member the uniform is class B blues they know exactly what you mean.
Dave, I think you'll find, that the terms are still very much in use throughout CAP, and I even hear USAF active duty personnel use the terms. It's not that perople don't know what service dress is, it's more along the line of A & B better describe the uniform.

[md132]

That may be a BillB but people must change with the times.  The terms Class A, B and C for Air Force has not been used for a long time.  Terms like summer blues or service uniforms should be enough.  Considering only Army uses these terms so it is understandable that they would be using them.  I, myself is guilty of it because I am an NCO for the State Guard.  But I learned to separate Army and Air Force terminology.  It would be like Army personnel calling the ACU's BDU's.  I understand that changing the way things are called will take time but it can happen if someone takes the inititive and start using the correct terms

[Yoda]

i don't correct the senior members who have been in CAP longer than I have been alive when they call it Class A's and Class B's.  I know (now) what they are talking about, and it's not my place to correct them.  But just because that's what we call them does not mean that it's the correct term to refer to them by.

White people used to describe black people in terms that are no longer allowable.  Just because everyone knew what they meant didn't make it right.

[md132]

I see what you are saying but these are correct terms for service uniforms.  What you also need to realize is that if you used the old terms to an Active Duty Air Force personnel, there is a chance that they may take offense by it.  I, for one, do not want to damage our relationship with the USAF.  So you will have to take that into consideration.  I am not saying that you should correct someone higher in rank than you.  What you can do is start using the correct terms yourself and maybe everyone will follow suit. 

[SarDragon]

You might be beating a dead horse here. This was discussed on at least one other thread with no real consensus. I joined CAP almost as many years ago as Bill, but never got into the habit of using the outdated terms. YMMV.

[AlphaSigOU]

wow, that scares me... (the Captain not knowing)

The plain visor would be for all company grade officers.  After attaining the rank of Major (Field Grade Officer), you are required to wear the brim with the silver on it.  The brim should have "2 clouds and lightening for Field Grade Officers and 3 clouds and lightening for General Officers" according to 39-1.

The cadet officers, no matter what (Company Grade or Field Grade) wear the plain visor.

Matt

Or as some with a twisted sense of humor call 'em... 'farts and darts'. 

In days of old, only Lt. Colonels and full Colonels wore the service cap with two clouds and darts. It was not until a few years ago that majors were authorized 'farts and darts' on their service cap.

[MIKE]

In days of old, only Lt. Colonels and full Colonels wore the service cap with two clouds and darts. It was not until a few years ago that majors were authorized 'farts and darts' on their service cap.

IIRC the Navy and Coast Guard still have scrambled eggs for the ranks of Commander (Lt Col equivalent.) and above.